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110 posters
Tu-160 "White Swan"
Werewolf- Posts : 5931
Points : 6120
Join date : 2012-10-24
wilhelm
wilhelm- Posts : 348
Points : 352
Join date : 2014-12-09
I watched that video on another forum last night where that new "bump" on the LERX was also noticed.
I assume it is an electronic warfare antenna?
I assume it is an electronic warfare antenna?
Project Canada- Posts : 662
Points : 663
Join date : 2015-07-19
Location : Canada
Are the Tu-160s in this video New Frames? if so, they started fresh production of Tu-160s?
franco- Posts : 7060
Points : 7086
Join date : 2010-08-17
Project Canada wrote:
Are the Tu-160s in this video New Frames? if so, they started fresh production of Tu-160s?
No production yet.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6174
Points : 6194
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
[quote="franco"]
Psl correct me if I am wrong but they say about deep modernization in this video - 8:20 journalist is saying about "first Tu-22 with label M" like minute before that only missiles no bombs anymore and only external looks remains.
So a bit confusing indeed. Especially in the light of news below:
KRET: avionics for Tu-160M2 will create by 2020
Project Canada wrote: No production yet.
Psl correct me if I am wrong but they say about deep modernization in this video - 8:20 journalist is saying about "first Tu-22 with label M" like minute before that only missiles no bombs anymore and only external looks remains.
So a bit confusing indeed. Especially in the light of news below:
KRET: avionics for Tu-160M2 will create by 2020
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2484527
GarryB- Posts : 40586
Points : 41088
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Sounds like you are confusing the new M upgrades with new model Blackjacks.
The Tu-22M3 is being upgraded to the Tu-22M3M level, while the Tu-160 is being upgraded to the Tu-160M and the standard Bear is going from Tu-95MS16 to the Tu-95MSM.
From 2020 and later they might put the new production Tu-160M models into production and they will likely be called Tu-160M2.
the purpose of the M upgrades is a unification of existing missiles (Kh-32, Kh-101/102 etc etc) and the ability to use a range of precision guided bombs and missiles including satellite guided bombs.
Actually before the M upgrades to all these platforms most couldn't even drop a bomb on a point target... previously they were used to drop masses of bombs on area targets, so the aircraft being used in Syria will have had some form of upgrade already.
The Tu-22M3 is being upgraded to the Tu-22M3M level, while the Tu-160 is being upgraded to the Tu-160M and the standard Bear is going from Tu-95MS16 to the Tu-95MSM.
From 2020 and later they might put the new production Tu-160M models into production and they will likely be called Tu-160M2.
the purpose of the M upgrades is a unification of existing missiles (Kh-32, Kh-101/102 etc etc) and the ability to use a range of precision guided bombs and missiles including satellite guided bombs.
Actually before the M upgrades to all these platforms most couldn't even drop a bomb on a point target... previously they were used to drop masses of bombs on area targets, so the aircraft being used in Syria will have had some form of upgrade already.
Guest- Guest
GunshipDemocracy wrote:franco wrote:Project Canada wrote: No production yet.
Psl correct me if I am wrong but they say about deep modernization in this video - 8:20 journalist is saying about "first Tu-22 with label M" like minute before that only missiles no bombs anymore and only external looks remains.
So a bit confusing indeed. Especially in the light of news below:
KRET: avionics for Tu-160M2 will create by 2020
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2484527
M2 is future upgrate project/new production version. M is update being underway atm, well starting now.
franco- Posts : 7060
Points : 7086
Join date : 2010-08-17
Militarov wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:franco wrote:Project Canada wrote: No production yet.
Psl correct me if I am wrong but they say about deep modernization in this video - 8:20 journalist is saying about "first Tu-22 with label M" like minute before that only missiles no bombs anymore and only external looks remains.
So a bit confusing indeed. Especially in the light of news below:
KRET: avionics for Tu-160M2 will create by 2020
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2484527
M2 is future upgrate project/new production version. M is update being underway atm, well starting now.
franco wrote??
when and where?
George1- Posts : 18528
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Russia successfully tests new cruise missile launch system for strategic bombers
YEKATERINBURG, December 4. /TASS/. Russia has successfully tested a system to launch long-range cruise missiles directly from strategic aircraft's weapons bays, the defense contractor Start, part of state hi-tech corporation Rostec, told TASS on Friday. "The [b]9A-829K3 multi-position launcher[/b] is designed for suspending, transporting and launching long-range cruise missiles directly from a plane’s weapons bays," the defense contractor said. wrote:
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6174
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Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
Militarov wrote: M2 is future upgrate project/new production version. M is update being underway atm, well starting now.
тханк иоу
Long-range aviation will receive the all Russian built astronavigational system
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151204/1335756296.html
"We are developing now for Long-range aviation astronavigational system that carries out navigation by the stars. Earlier for such systems one of the important blocks were made in Ukraine. Today in the framework of the program of import substitution we will make a system, all components which will be manufactured at Russian enterprises", — said Kuznetsov.
GarryB wrote:the purpose of the M upgrades is a unification of existing missiles (Kh-32, Kh-101/102 etc etc) and the ability to use a range of precision guided bombs and missiles including satellite guided bombs.
Actually before the M upgrades to all these platforms most couldn't even drop a bomb on a point target... previously they were used to drop masses of bombs on area targets, so the aircraft being used in Syria will have had some form of upgrade already.
program host is actually stating that up to now Tu160 could use bombs and missiles and new one (i.e. M) will use only missiles 7:75
got it you´re not a squealer, it was mefranco wrote: franco wrote?? when and where?
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
George1 wrote:Russia successfully tests new cruise missile launch system for strategic bombersYEKATERINBURG, December 4. /TASS/. Russia has successfully tested a system to launch long-range cruise missiles directly from strategic aircraft's weapons bays, the defense contractor Start, part of state hi-tech corporation Rostec, told TASS on Friday. "The [b]9A-829K3 multi-position launcher[/b] is designed for suspending, transporting and launching long-range cruise missiles directly from a plane’s weapons bays," the defense contractor said. wrote:
So with this system, they can probably carry 9 missiles of the Kh-101/Kh-102 category in each weapons bay instead of 6.
GarryB- Posts : 40586
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
program host is actually stating that up to now Tu160 could use bombs and missiles and new one (i.e. M) will use only missiles 7:75
Then I think the host was confused or the translation was wrong.
The Tu-160 could use unguided bombs and guided missiles in the form of land attack cruise missiles and self defence anti radiation/air defence penetration missiles (ie Kh-55, Kh-555, and Kh-15).
The upgrade adds other guided missiles and also guided bombs.
I suspect what he meant to say was that the old plane carried guided and unguided weapons but the new plane will only likely carry guided weapons... I can't think of any other Russian type that could carry the FOAB for example.
Also the new weapon rack might enable the Blackjack to carry larger weapons like the FAB-3000, FAB-5000 and FAB-9000 as well as FOAB and as Morpheus mentions smaller weapons in larger numbers.
I remember when they mentioned the Tu-160M upgrade they mentioned increasing payload from 40 tons to 45 tons...
Berkut- Posts : 190
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Join date : 2015-05-05
Nonsense. The upgraded frames will not be able to use bombs at all, neither the host or translation is wrong. They even *removed* that capability, just look on the underside pics of some freshy modernized frames.
What Tu-160M2 will be able to do is open to question.
What Tu-160M2 will be able to do is open to question.
Guest- Guest
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:George1 wrote:Russia successfully tests new cruise missile launch system for strategic bombersYEKATERINBURG, December 4. /TASS/. Russia has successfully tested a system to launch long-range cruise missiles directly from strategic aircraft's weapons bays, the defense contractor Start, part of state hi-tech corporation Rostec, told TASS on Friday. "The [b]9A-829K3 multi-position launcher[/b] is designed for suspending, transporting and launching long-range cruise missiles directly from a plane’s weapons bays," the defense contractor said. wrote:
So with this system, they can probably carry 9 missiles of the Kh-101/Kh-102 category in each weapons bay instead of 6.
"Tekhnodinamika has modified the rotator of the 9A-829K3 multiple weapons rack in 2015, which has raised its reliability through an increase in the rigidity of the rotator’s load-bearing parts. The performance of the 9A-829K3 remained unchanged. A multiple rotary launcher equipped with the advanced rotator had undergone standard tests with Start and the Makeyev State Rocket Center for a month and a half. Its rotator’s durability and its vibration resistance and vibration survival had been tested. The trials proved the viability of the design modifications to the 9A-829K3 rotary launcher," the press office said."
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Militarov wrote:Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:George1 wrote:Russia successfully tests new cruise missile launch system for strategic bombersYEKATERINBURG, December 4. /TASS/. Russia has successfully tested a system to launch long-range cruise missiles directly from strategic aircraft's weapons bays, the defense contractor Start, part of state hi-tech corporation Rostec, told TASS on Friday. "The [b]9A-829K3 multi-position launcher[/b] is designed for suspending, transporting and launching long-range cruise missiles directly from a plane’s weapons bays," the defense contractor said. wrote:
So with this system, they can probably carry 9 missiles of the Kh-101/Kh-102 category in each weapons bay instead of 6.
"Tekhnodinamika has modified the rotator of the 9A-829K3 multiple weapons rack in 2015, which has raised its reliability through an increase in the rigidity of the rotator’s load-bearing parts. The performance of the 9A-829K3 remained unchanged. A multiple rotary launcher equipped with the advanced rotator had undergone standard tests with Start and the Makeyev State Rocket Center for a month and a half. Its rotator’s durability and its vibration resistance and vibration survival had been tested. The trials proved the viability of the design modifications to the 9A-829K3 rotary launcher," the press office said."
Interesting. The original TASS report seemed to suggest that the rotary launcher was gone. That's why I assumed that if, in place of the rotary launcher, a successful method for suspending a 3X3 matrix of missiles can be implemented (similar to what they do for the bombs) then the load out for each weapons bay would reach 9.
I am sure you are correct, as a 9A-829K3 designation probably just implies another mod of the 9A-829K series.
Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:19 am; edited 2 times in total
x_54_u43- Posts : 336
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Join date : 2015-09-19
Berkut wrote:Nonsense. The upgraded frames will not be able to use bombs at all, neither the host or translation is wrong. They even *removed* that capability, just look on the underside pics of some freshy modernized frames.
What Tu-160M2 will be able to do is open to question.
Sorry if I am incorrect, did they remove the optical systems? I am not able to search for the recently modernized Tu-160s at the moment.
I wonder if we will see an expansion of the Tu-160's guided arsenal, I would love to see them stuff racks of Kh-59MK2s on there, after all, they are not exactly using the Kh-101 ranges to full extent.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6174
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GarryB wrote:program host is actually stating that up to now Tu160 could use bombs and missiles and new one (i.e. M) will use only missiles 7:75
Then I think the host was confused or the translation was wrong.
The Tu-160 could use unguided bombs and guided missiles in the form of land attack cruise missiles and self defence anti radiation/air defence penetration missiles (ie Kh-55, Kh-555, and Kh-15).
The upgrade adds other guided missiles and also guided bombs.
[]
I remember when they mentioned the Tu-160M upgrade they mentioned increasing payload from 40 tons to 45 tons...
As you can see from previous conversation opinions are divided on this topic. I just wonder if Tu-160M is going to carry only missiles then what is to be carrier of FOAB toys? Tu-22? Tu-95?
Well 45tons of hypersonic/cruise missiles is helluva ordnance to keep NATO from next aggression :
GarryB- Posts : 40586
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Well the description above of the upgrade talks about modifying the rotary launcher to make it stronger and more stable and reliable... that would be rather more important for accurate precise bomb release and totally meaningless for cruise missile launch.
a 0.5 second delay in releasing a 5,000km range Kh-101 wont affect its accuracy or performance in any way.
A 0.5 second delay would have an enormous effect on the accuracy of a dumb bomb dropped using the Gefest& T computerised bomb aiming system.
The old rotary launcher could carry bombs... what changes have been made to prevent the new rotary launcher from doing the same?
I appreciate that ideally the Tu-160 should not have to overfly its targets as that makes it safer against capable enemies, but against ISIS or the Muj in Afghanistan a bomb is a much cheaper way to deliver HE to precise points on a map. Guided bombs even more so as one bomb per target is more efficient.
a 0.5 second delay in releasing a 5,000km range Kh-101 wont affect its accuracy or performance in any way.
A 0.5 second delay would have an enormous effect on the accuracy of a dumb bomb dropped using the Gefest& T computerised bomb aiming system.
The old rotary launcher could carry bombs... what changes have been made to prevent the new rotary launcher from doing the same?
I appreciate that ideally the Tu-160 should not have to overfly its targets as that makes it safer against capable enemies, but against ISIS or the Muj in Afghanistan a bomb is a much cheaper way to deliver HE to precise points on a map. Guided bombs even more so as one bomb per target is more efficient.
Berkut- Posts : 190
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x_54_u43 wrote:Berkut wrote:Nonsense. The upgraded frames will not be able to use bombs at all, neither the host or translation is wrong. They even *removed* that capability, just look on the underside pics of some freshy modernized frames.
What Tu-160M2 will be able to do is open to question.
Sorry if I am incorrect, did they remove the optical systems? I am not able to search for the recently modernized Tu-160s at the moment.
I wonder if we will see an expansion of the Tu-160's guided arsenal, I would love to see them stuff racks of Kh-59MK2s on there, after all, they are not exactly using the Kh-101 ranges to full extent.
Yes. The window on the underside is filled in (forget its name, Kaira?, Su-24M has same system). Here is for example one of the newest examples that went through the refurbishment;
GunshipDemocracy wrote:As you can see from previous conversation opinions are divided on this topic. I just wonder if Tu-160M is going to carry only missiles then what is to be carrier of FOAB toys? Tu-22? Tu-95?
Well 45tons of hypersonic/cruise missiles is helluva ordnance to keep NATO from next aggression :
Tu-95MS is just like Tu-160; they are not bombers but missile platforms. Tu-95MS isnt able to carry bombs either. Tu-22M3 and Su-34 will be the bomb trucks.
GarryB- Posts : 40586
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Are you sure it has been removed and is not just using a more retractable system?
With the number of new glide bombs and the potential to carry sat guided bombs rather cheaply I wonder why they would take away the ability to carry bombs...
What platform will carry the FOABs and other very heavy bombs like the FAB-9000 and FAB-5000 and FAB-3000?
Seems to me to be a little short sighted.
With the number of new glide bombs and the potential to carry sat guided bombs rather cheaply I wonder why they would take away the ability to carry bombs...
What platform will carry the FOABs and other very heavy bombs like the FAB-9000 and FAB-5000 and FAB-3000?
Seems to me to be a little short sighted.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6174
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GarryB wrote:Are you sure it has been removed and is not just using a more retractable system?
With the number of new glide bombs and the potential to carry sat guided bombs rather cheaply I wonder why they would take away the ability to carry bombs...
What platform will carry the FOABs and other very heavy bombs like the FAB-9000 and FAB-5000 and FAB-3000?
Seems to me to be a little short sighted.
Rather question of priorities. Strategic deterrence of western aggressors apparently has higher priority then precision bombing on this platform.
Besides about 40 operational Tu-22s is in RuAF. Wiki is maybe not the best source of info but up to 30 Tu-22M3M to be ready till 2020. For bombing Turkish gay wolves and FSA/IGIL Tu-22M3M can do the job.
Guest- Guest
GarryB wrote:Are you sure it has been removed and is not just using a more retractable system?
With the number of new glide bombs and the potential to carry sat guided bombs rather cheaply I wonder why they would take away the ability to carry bombs...
What platform will carry the FOABs and other very heavy bombs like the FAB-9000 and FAB-5000 and FAB-3000?
Seems to me to be a little short sighted.
PAK DA? Maybe they look to the future, you never know. None the less i doubt they would completely remove bomb carrying capability it would be out of any logic.
Berkut- Posts : 190
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GarryB wrote:Are you sure it has been removed and is not just using a more retractable system?
With the number of new glide bombs and the potential to carry sat guided bombs rather cheaply I wonder why they would take away the ability to carry bombs...
What platform will carry the FOABs and other very heavy bombs like the FAB-9000 and FAB-5000 and FAB-3000?
Seems to me to be a little short sighted.
We will see what they will do with Tu-160M2 but for the current modernized ones they are limited to Kh-55/555 and Kh-101. Which frankly is exactly as it always was.
The way i see it, PAK-DA is dead.
sepheronx- Posts : 8855
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People didnt believe in pak fa either. And here we are.
Pak Da will end up replacing Tu-22M as that plane is also getting old and will need replacement eventually.
Pak Da will end up replacing Tu-22M as that plane is also getting old and will need replacement eventually.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6174
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sepheronx wrote:People didnt believe in pak fa either. And here we are.
Pak Da will end up replacing Tu-22M as that plane is also getting old and will need replacement eventually.
40 Tu-22 and 60 Tu-95 need to be replaced by something new so PAK DA is surely needed.