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Tu-160 "White Swan"

GarryB

GarryB: Posts : 40585
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Post n°451

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

GarryB Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:15 am

We have already been over this.

They had four aircraft in different states of completion.

They finished the two they could finish but because the remaining two didn't have the expensive and complicated titanium box structure the remaining two could not be completed outside of the Ukrainian factory that made them in the first place.

The fact that they have finished the remaining two means they now have a forge able to work with very large titanium structures in a vacuum.... which is pretty much all they needed to make new Blackjacks.

Mil and Kilo.. hope you are happy with your snide cheap shots...

Troll all you want, you just sound like asses.

These planes are going to be built and these engines are going to be upgraded and it might not actually run to schedule, because this is the real world and not fairy fanboi land like the EU you two live in.

Oops, did I say fairy.... sorry, I realise in the western democratic republic of EU that you two live in that might be deemed offensive to faggots and I would be strung up under the nearest lamp post for uttering such an offensive slur on the good name of homos everywhere.

KiloGolf

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Post n°452

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

KiloGolf Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:46 am

Cyberspec wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Easy there, Note the word, "planned".
It's a Russian military project, I'd expect some kind of delay. With creative excuses of course.

They apparently have 3-4 partialy completed airframes leftover from Soviet times. That should speed up the construction of the first examples

Well that took about 1/4 of a century, beats Ivan Gren record. lol1

GarryB wrote:Mil and Kilo.. hope you are happy with your snide cheap shots...

Troll all you want, you just sound like asses.

learn to take a joke Garry. yes sir

And given the circumstances in Russian defense projects, there's plenty of subject matter.

Cyberspec

Cyberspec: Posts : 2904
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Post n°453

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Cyberspec Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:57 am

KiloGolf wrote:Well that took about 1/4 of a century....

Congratulations thumbsup

This one takes the prize for the most idiotic recent post...and it was a tight contest

KiloGolf

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Post n°454

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

KiloGolf Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:03 am

Cyberspec wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Well that took about 1/4 of a century....

Congratulations This one takes the prize for the most idiotic recent post...and it was a tight contest

Try the Ivan Gren thread, you'll find epic stuff there.
Although wait one sec, I can hear a phone ringing. Oh it's 1992, they want their incomplete bombers back jocolor

PS. you too, learn to take a joke.

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°455

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

GunshipDemocracy Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:05 pm

Cyberspec wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Well that took about 1/4 of a century....

Congratulations This one takes the prize for the most idiotic recent post...and it was a tight contest

i's weekend and I wanna smoke same thing as KiloGolf Razz

Guest

Guest: Guest

Post n°456

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Guest Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:00 pm

GarryB wrote:We have already been over this.

They had four aircraft in different states of completion.

They finished the two they could finish but because the remaining two didn't have the expensive and complicated titanium box structure the remaining two could not be completed outside of the Ukrainian factory that made them in the first place.

The fact that they have finished the remaining two means they now have a forge able to work with very large titanium structures in a vacuum.... which is pretty much all they needed to make new Blackjacks.

Mil and Kilo.. hope you are happy with your snide cheap shots...

Troll all you want, you just sound like asses.

These planes are going to be built and these engines are going to be upgraded and it might not actually run to schedule, because this is the real world and not fairy fanboi land like the EU you two live in.

Oops, did I say fairy.... sorry, I realise in the western democratic republic of EU that you two live in that might be deemed offensive to faggots and I would be strung up under the nearest lamp post for uttering such an offensive slur on the good name of homos everywhere.

I do not live in the EU, that to start with Smile

Second, i just commented on their cute schedules. How comes they always bring silly schedules and then prolong them for decade on average, whats the point. Stfu and just say, we are working on it, it will be done, report if you are pleased on completion phases during the work and thats it. But no... IN 2019. IT WILL... no it wont, over and over, it wont.

"PAK-FA enters service in 2015."... yea..cute... "Admiral Nakhimov overhaul ends in 2018..."...right... "Ivan Gren...." you got me i hope.

Who is coming up with these dates, someone with Down syndrome? Engine production restart will take long, then they will have issues with modernisations, then they will produce same NK-32 variant for start... same as it was with Izd-30.

I am not "troll", i am just saying what everyone thinks, thats the difference.

Guest

Guest: Guest

Post n°457

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Guest Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:03 pm

KiloGolf wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Well that took about 1/4 of a century....

Congratulations This one takes the prize for the most idiotic recent post...and it was a tight contest

Try the Ivan Gren thread, you'll find epic stuff there.
Although wait one sec, I can hear a phone ringing. Oh it's 1992, they want their incomplete bombers back

PS. you too, learn to take a joke.

To be honest, many other countries did scrap production of certain equipment, stored the semi complete examples and restarted production decade or two later, either as maintenance or replacement of lost equipment feat. Its not only Russian thing, tho that is far more common in naval production than aviation.

Singular_Transform

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Post n°458

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Singular_Transform Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:44 pm

Militarov wrote:

I do not live in the EU, that to start with

Second, i just commented on their cute schedules. How comes they always bring silly schedules and then prolong them for decade on average, whats the point. Stfu and just say, we are working on it, it will be done, report if you are pleased on completion phases during the work and thats it. But no... IN 2019. IT WILL... no it wont, over and over, it wont.

"PAK-FA enters service in 2015."... yea..cute... "Admiral Nakhimov overhaul ends in 2018..."...right... "Ivan Gren...." you got me i hope.

Who is coming up with these dates, someone with Down syndrome? Engine production restart will take long, then they will have issues with modernisations, then they will produce same NK-32 variant for start... same as it was with Izd-30.

I am not "troll", i am just saying what everyone thinks, thats the difference.

It is completely normal, just see what happened with the US nuclear manufacturing lines after two decade of shutdown.

They wanted to make just same fogbank ,and it is only a small part of a nuke, and faced with extreme expense and years later delivery than it was expected.

wilhelm

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Post n°459

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

wilhelm Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:53 pm

Too much idle chit chat here.
The roll out of the Tu-160M, or partial M i guess, in Kazan, prototype for the new production, apparently from one of the last unfinished airframes previously built 25 years ago. Slated to fly in February of 2018.

Article below.
https://kazanfirst.ru/articles/452526

Last edited by wilhelm on Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

TheArmenian

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Post n°460

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

TheArmenian Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:05 pm

A truly UUUURRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA moment

They tried to kill the white swan

Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 19 O6hDLRg

Now the Phoenix has risen from the ashes.

A better resolution video:

PapaDragon

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Post n°461

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

PapaDragon Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:42 pm

I know they started with partially built airframe but this is still not a bad time at all. They said that one of the objectives was for new guy to learn how to build these planes becasue old ones are mostly retired by now. Not bad.

Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 19 F_aTEudGF0YXItaW5mb3JtLnJ1L2ltYWdlLzIwMTcvMTEvMTYvMDIuanBnP19faWQ9MTAwNDI1

Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 19 F_aTEudGF0YXItaW5mb3JtLnJ1L2ltYWdlLzIwMTcvMTEvMTYvMDIuanBnP19faWQ9MTAwNDI1

Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 19 F_c2RlbGFub3VuYXMucnUvdXBsb2Fkcy85LzkvOTkzMTUxMDg1MzEyMF9vcmlnLmpwZWc_X19pZD0xMDA0MjU=

Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 19 F_a2F6YW5maXJzdC5ydS9zdG9yYWdlL3Bvc3QvTm92ZW1iZXIyMDE3L0RxdlNDNGU5MmlzMGI3Z3lBcnBvLXdhdGVybWFyay5qcGVnP19faWQ9MTAwNDI1

Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 19 F_a2F6YW5maXJzdC5ydS9zdG9yYWdlL3Bvc3QvTm92ZW1iZXIyMDE3L0tvU1U2b2djdnpCWVNpSEpjSHdFLXdhdGVybWFyay5qcGVnP19faWQ9MTAwNDI1

Cyberspec

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Post n°462

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Cyberspec Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:16 pm

the plane isn't even painted yet....way too slow tongue

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°463

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Tsavo Lion Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:42 am

Perhaps once the M2s start getting inducted, some of the older Tu-160s will be transferred to the Naval Aviation to replace/augment Tu-95s/142s.

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:26 pm; edited 3 times in total

Arctic_Fox

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Post n°464

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Arctic_Fox Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:29 am

This means that they gave up on PAK DA?

PapaDragon

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Post n°465

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

PapaDragon Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:38 am

Arctic_Fox wrote:This means that they gave up on PAK DA?

No just pushed back for later

They still need replacement for Tu-22 that won't cost as much as Tu-160

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°466

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Tsavo Lion Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:30 pm

More details:
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/16175/russia-rolls-out-new-tu-160m2-but-are-moscows-bomber-ambitions-realistic

"..Tupolev, in addressing two main tasks – the deep modernization of the Tu-160, and the development of the PAK-DA, may have focused on the [Tu-160] bird in hand, while the [PAK-DA] pot of gold at the end of the rainbow can wait," Tuchkov explained. ..
Ultimately, the military analyst noted that the fact that the Tu-160M2 is being created in parallel with the PAK-DA is to the advantage of both aircraft, allowing the modernized plane to receive advanced technologies, while giving the next generation bomber a head start on development.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201706221054888100-tu160m2-prospects-analysis/

Azi

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Post n°467

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Azi Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:38 am

Arctic_Fox wrote:This means that they gave up on PAK DA?

The work on Tu-160M2 doesn't mean that PAK-DA is dead. The contrary! If you hear nothing the project lives Wink

They said they will reveal the design in 2018.

miketheterrible

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Post n°468

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

miketheterrible Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:34 am

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4730201

Source: PAK DA will be cheaper than the Tu-160, but you can replace all long range aircraft

GarryB

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Post n°469

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

GarryB Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:06 am

This means that they gave up on PAK DA?

No.

The PAK DA needs to be developed from scratch, which will take some time. In the mean time they have upgraded their production facilities to handle construction of very large titanium structures needed for aircraft like the Tu-160 and the new PAK DA.

The new tooling and facilities to be used to build new Tu-160M2s will then be used to build PAK DAs to replace the Tu-95s left in service in the strategic role and the Tu-22m3s used in the theatre role.

This is clearly one of the four airframes left from the cold war period.... one of the second pair they could not make because the factory that could handly such large titanium structures was in the Ukraine.

Now this aircraft is near completion but presumably with new internals like fibre optics instead of copper wires etc etc.

I am looking forward to seeing the third Tu-160M2 to see if it has the optics under the nose for bombing...

It goes without saying that a subsonic flying wing design should have lower operating costs than a supersonic large jet like the blackjack.... it is like comparing a jumbo jet with Concord.

George1

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Post n°470

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

George1 Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:59 pm

This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

franco

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Post n°471

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

franco Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:21 pm

George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.

Isos

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Post n°472

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

Isos Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:42 pm

franco wrote:

George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.

Is it more stealthy ? Do they us RAM on it or they use the same materials than before ?

franco

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Post n°473

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

franco Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:56 pm

Not sure however one of our techies may know.

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°474

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

GunshipDemocracy Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:12 pm

franco wrote:Not sure however one of our techies may know.

First of all avionics, both for bombing, navigation, signalling and net-centric warfare, EW. I would also add anti missile systems (lasers for blinding optical sensors or microwaves to burning missile electronics) . Engines and hudrulics too. In short air frame looka remains as air flow didn't change. T?he rest can be the subject of change/upgrade

eehnie

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Post n°475

Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

eehnie Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:23 pm

Isos wrote:

franco wrote:

George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.

Is it more stealthy ? Do they us RAM on it or they use the same materials than before ?

Some small external dimmensional change is possible, also it is possible some surface treatment, but change in external materials is more difficult and is unlikely in my opinion.

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