Tu-160 "White Swan"

eehnie wrote:

Isos wrote:

franco wrote:

George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.

Is it more stealthy ? Do they us RAM on it or they use the same materials than before ?

Some small external dimmensional change is possible, also it is possible some surface treatment, but change in external materials is more difficult and is unlikely in my opinion.

Tsavo Lion wrote:Why also not restart production of the Tu-95MSM & Tu-142-the last 1 came out in 1994? It's cheaper to make, maintain & operate as CM/bomb/torpedo truck + can be adopted for many other roles as before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-95#Variants  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-142#Variants

Tsavo Lion wrote:Time will tell, but I'll believe it when I see it!
OTH, China has more $ to spare but is doing the same with the H-6K. A low rate production of the Tu-95MSM/142s & their spares would be a good way to boost the #s & capability of older bombers & augmenting Tu-160Ms/M2s while saving $ & time, IMHO.

Tsavo Lion wrote:Nor there's 1 saying it'll be supersonic. The drawings circulated so far don't look like it's anything but a subsonic. Otherwise, it'll be an expensive & tactical/strategic overkill to carry super/hypersonic missiles on a supersonic bomber that can wait another decade or 2!

[]The aircraft also has a new satellite navigation system, and the new engine NK-32-02 will allow the bomber to develop speed over two Machs and remain invulnerable to enemy air defenses. Thanks to the new engine, the practical ceiling of the Tu-160M2 will be 18 kilometers[]

eehnie wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:Nor there's 1 saying it'll be supersonic. The drawings circulated so far don't look like it's anything but a subsonic. Otherwise, it'll be an expensive & tactical/strategic overkill to carry super/hypersonic missiles on a supersonic bomber that can wait another decade or 2!

Can you find a link with some official statement saying the Tu-PAK-DA will be subsonic?

(Is not the first time this has been discussed here)

Russia is ordering the Tu-160. Wrong? Why?

(This is something to take into account at the time of critizizing supersonic strategic bombers)

Tsavo Lion wrote:

eehnie wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:Nor there's 1 saying it'll be supersonic. The drawings circulated so far don't look like it's anything but a subsonic. Otherwise, it'll be an expensive & tactical/strategic overkill to carry super/hypersonic missiles on a supersonic bomber that can wait another decade or 2!

Can you find a link with some official statement saying the Tu-PAK-DA will be subsonic?

(Is not the first time this has been discussed here)

Russia is ordering the Tu-160. Wrong? Why?

(This is something to take into account at the time of critizizing supersonic strategic bombers)

Well, some experts stated that most likely it'll be subsonic, the Tu-160M2 order notwithstanding, as it already exists & can be (& was already used in Syria) as a tactical bomber like the USAF B-1B. As a more direct counterpart of the subsonic B-2/3, it doesn't need to be supersonic. Besides, the supersonic Tu-22M3s could also be re equipped for inflight refueling & made capable to carry more/the same types of newer CMs, if need be.

Tsavo Lion wrote:If used against 3rd countries which don't have anti-stealth radars, it's clear that the B-2/3s will be "left in the dust' by the Tu-160M/2s (it's bigger than the B-52!), comparing their armaments, ALCMs ranges & speeds to targets. If the B-2/3 is used against the RF, stealth won't save it from detection & possible destruction, depending on its stand off range &/ time over target.
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201711081001-dbue.htm?utm_source=24smi&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=2152&utm_content=1356320&utm_campaign=10994

The USA can also detect stealth, so when used against them, the Tu-160M/2 not being stealthy isn't relevant as there's no need to penetrate hostile airspace- long range CMs can do it instead!

eehnie wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:If used against 3rd countries which don't have anti-stealth radars, it's clear that the B-2/3s will be "left in the dust' by the Tu-160M/2s (it's bigger than the B-52!), comparing their armaments, ALCMs ranges & speeds to targets. If the B-2/3 is used against the RF, stealth won't save it from detection & possible destruction, depending on its stand off range &/ time over target.
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201711081001-dbue.htm?utm_source=24smi&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=2152&utm_content=1356320&utm_campaign=10994

The USA can also detect stealth, so when used against them, the Tu-160M/2 not being stealthy isn't relevant as there's no need to penetrate hostile airspace- long range CMs can do it instead!

Then, I assume you consider the Tu-160 stronger than the B-2/3. I assume you consider Russia would have advantage.

Why would Russia need a new aircraft to counter the B-2/3 if the have today a superior alternative? Why would Russia to spend high amounts of money in the development of an aircraft that would also underperform the Tu-160, having the option of ordering and making return to production the Tu-160, the Tu-22 or the Tu-95/142 instead?

Singular_Transform wrote:

eehnie wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:If used against 3rd countries which don't have anti-stealth radars, it's clear that the B-2/3s will be "left in the dust' by the Tu-160M/2s (it's bigger than the B-52!), comparing their armaments, ALCMs ranges & speeds to targets. If the B-2/3 is used against the RF, stealth won't save it from detection & possible destruction, depending on its stand off range &/ time over target.
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201711081001-dbue.htm?utm_source=24smi&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=2152&utm_content=1356320&utm_campaign=10994

The USA can also detect stealth, so when used against them, the Tu-160M/2 not being stealthy isn't relevant as there's no need to penetrate hostile airspace- long range CMs can do it instead!

Then, I assume you consider the Tu-160 stronger than the B-2/3. I assume you consider Russia would have advantage.

Why would Russia need a new aircraft to counter the B-2/3 if the have today a superior alternative? Why would Russia to spend high amounts of money in the development of an aircraft that would also underperform the Tu-160, having the option of ordering and making return to production the Tu-160, the Tu-22 or the Tu-95/142 instead?

Because the Tu-160 is too expensive.

Tsavo Lion wrote:If u r talking to me, watch ur language! I never implied that B-2/3 can be supersonic! Perhaps u need to learn English better!

On 30 August 2013, a Russian Defense Ministry source revealed that the PAK DA will be equipped with advanced types of precision-guided weapons, including hypersonic weapons. The bomber itself will fly at subsonic speeds. ..63 Tu-95 bombers will be upgraded and the Tu-95MS is to remain in service until 2040. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_PAK_DA
Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies researcher Mikhail Barabanov, editor of the Moscow Defense Brief, told The National Interest that the Russian Air Force would like the PAK-DA to function as a penetrating strike aircraft similar to the future Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider. “I think that the Russian Air Force wants a penetrator that will complement the Tu-160M2 which is an ALCM [air launched cruise missile] carrier,” Barabanov said. ..The PAK-DA is expected to be subsonic aircraft—as its flying wing configuration suggests. ..But there are those who are skeptical of the PAK-DA project. CNA Corporation research scientist Michael Kofman, who specializes in Russian military affairs, dismissed the latest developments. “It's a wooden mockup,” Kofman told The National Interest. “How's that progress?” Barabanov, however, said that he believes that the PAK-DA project is a genuine effort by Russia to field a new next generation strategic bomber. It is simply a matter of political will for Russia to find the money to pay for such an expensive program. “It is a real project,” Barabanov said. “But it is a rather philosophical question about the level of political support for such projects.”
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-pak-da-stealth-bomber-just-took-big-step-forward-19656