3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Hypersonic top attack missile are almost impossible to intercept. Air defences don't cover to top of the ship. It will need to be defended by another ship more than 10 km away if not more.

Even then, the missile flies at mach 5 or more which means a little variation of the path and the interceptor missile will see the interception coordinates moving km away. Unless if the interceptor is going at mach 15, it will never be able to catch it up.

IMO Zirkon will target primarly destroyers as a first wave while kh-22 targets the carriers in a second wave coming seconds after zirkons.

What is remarkable about Hypersonic missiles..  that is sustained from start to end
hypersonic missiles ,something Ballistic nukes don't do... Is that according to one
American General.. they will only show up in radars in the first phase ,when accelerating
but not when they are at full speeds... Imagine that for a second.. a missile  that completely
disappear from radars for being too fast?  

Now im not making things up..  
this is exactly what one American pentagon general told...
and this was not the way i understood the hypersonic challenge..
i used to believe ,it was only a challenge to intercept it ,if it does many
abrupt movements ... but he was speaking about a missile that completely
become invisible in radars.. for its speeds..  

So either that Pentagon General was misinformed..
or US military ,US navy is completely doomed and don't have technology
to either detect the missiles (with their modern radars)  and even less
to intercept them.

Or maybe he exagerated the danger to get more funds for Navy?
but he did told that.. that they will not be seen on their radars once flying hypersonic phase..

Maybe he was speaking about their warships radars limitations ,and ground radars or other
technology in land could at least detect hypersonic missiles.. perhaps Infrared sensors could see them at close range.. either way.. that took me by surprise.. because if what he says is true.. then US navy will be completely slaughtered in a fight vs a squadron of Mig-31 armed with Kinzhal missiles (or Su-57 armed with mini short range hypersonics missiles). and without casualties for the Russian airforce..

if true what he told ,the US navy will be shooting gallery , target practice for Russian
airforce and if done with stealth planes and fire hypersonic from long distance ,they might not even know they under attack until they see their warships in flames sinking. This is very serious disadvantage for US navy if they can't see hypersonic missiles ,because not even will know they are under attack..so no electronic warfare will be used either to hide their warships a bit.. in fact if the attack use nukes.. or the conventional missile destroy the chain of command in charge of the warship they might not even have a chance to inform they were attacked.. and just dissapear the warships from US satellites network..if they have real time monitoring of every warship movements..

Depends on the radar... a spinning radar that spins perhaps 12 times a minute only scans in the direction of the target 12 times every minute for a few seconds... a target like Zircon that moved about 3km every second with a radar that spins around 12 times a minute means that lets say the target is detected at 600km range... for the next minute the radar will spin a full 360 degrees 12 times so at 0, and then again at 5 seconds and then at 10 seconds and at 15 seconds and 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55 seconds and at 60 seconds the radar will be pointing in the direction of the incoming Zircon... now at zero second it detects the Zircon 600km away... say at 50km altitude... 5 seconds later when it comes around and scans there again it will look for the target but the target wont be where it was... it will be 15km closer at 575km range... then at 10 seconds it will be a further 15km closer... so rather than a fairly solid track you will have this dotted line... the high scan rate of 12 rotations a second means the radar will probably only be pointing in the targets direction for a fraction of one second and during that period the target will move a couple of kms... and 5 seconds later will be 15 kms away from where it was... in the minute it takes to complete 12 scans the target missile will have moved 180km closer...

But now imagine there is not one Zircon... imagine there are 5... and they are not flying straight, they are performing small ducks and weaves as they travel... climbing and descending slightly... not enough to slow them down very much but enough to mean you don't really know which dash is which missile or indeed how many actual missiles their might be... Zircons will get there first so they might be transmitting data down to very low flying missiles that are managing mach 4 or mach 5 along the deck that don't have to climb because they are getting a full picture of your ships from the high flying Zircons based on both their active and passive radar data collected as they close... The Zircons will be moving much faster, but the low flying missiles... perhaps Onyx with new fuels flying at mach 4 7m above the water might have been launched first with the Zircons timed to provide target information just before impact... then the Zircons come in and hit the ships that don't get hit by the Onyx missiles... the Soviets were working on this stuff since the 1970s... it is not new for them at all...

ircons will get there first so they might be transmitting data down to very low flying missiles that are managing mach 4 or mach 5 along the deck that don't have to climb because they are getting a full picture of your ships from the high flying Zircons based wrote:

How did they solve this if the plasma surrounding Zircon flying 9M blocked electromagnetic signals?

Arrow wrote:

How did they solve this if the plasma surrounding Zircon flying 9M blocked electromagnetic signals?

When you use quotes, write between the two quote tag that appears because you write the quote where normally you should put the name of the one you are quoting.

[//quote="Arrow here is the one you quote "] here you write the quote[//quote]

How did they solve this if the plasma surrounding Zircon flying 9M blocked electromagnetic signals?

The DAS system on the MiG-35 is reportedly created by a Russian company that creates laser based secure communications systems used by their military satellites... an IR directed laser communication system could easily pass enormous amounts of information from a high flying missile to a low flying missile moving at a different speed... the information transmitted by coded laser beam would be relatively secure as to intercept you would need to put a laser sensor between the two missiles... one flying high at mach 10 and one flying low at mach 4-5...

Russia’s Pacific Fleet to upgrade warships to carry Tsirkon hypersonic weapons

According to experts, the Tsirkon hypersonic missile can’t be intercepted by any existing air defense capabilities
Marshal Shaposhnikov anti-submarine warfare ship Yuri Smityuk/TASS

BOLSHOI KAMEN /Vladivostok/, November 8. /TASS/. The Project 1155 large anti-submarine warfare ship Marshal Shaposhnikov and the Project 949A Antey-class multipurpose nuclear-powered submarine Irkutsk currently undergoing their upgrade for Russia’s Pacific Fleet will be capable of using the latest Tsirkon hypersonic weapons, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko said on Friday.

"In 2020, we are due to receive the upgraded ship Marshal Shaposhnikov. I am confident that the management [of the Dalzavod Ship Repair Center] will duly fulfil the assigned task and the timeframe of the ship’s delivery won’t be shifted. The universal launchers, which the ship will receive, will enable it to eventually employ the latest Tsirkon hypersonic missiles," the deputy defense minister said, wrapping up his visit to enterprises of the Far Eastern shipbuilding cluster.

The nuclear-powered submarine Irkutsk, which the Zvezda Shipyard in the Primorye Region in the Russian Far East is upgrading to the 949AM level, will also receive this capability. The sub is due to be delivered to the Russian Pacific Fleet in 2022, the defense official said.

In his State-of-the-Nation Address to the Federal Assembly on February 20, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the Tsirkon missile was capable of developing a speed of Mach 9 and its range capability could exceed 1,000 km. The Russian leader also said that the Tsirkon could strike both naval and ground targets. The new missile will be deployed on warships and submarines armed with Kalibr cruise missiles.

Experts say the Tsirkon hypersonic missile can’t be intercepted by any existing air defense capabilities.

https://tass.com/defense/1087598

It means Zircon entered mass production and still we have not even slightest idea about how it looks.

Marshal Shaposhnikov and the Project 949A Antey-class after modernization, they will be able to carry Zircon missiles. This does not mean that they will move them. At the beginning they can also be equipped with Kalibr and Onyx missile.

It means that the Zircon can be carried in the universal attack missile launchers being fitted to upgraded old ships and subs and all brand new ships and subs in the Russian Navy.

Obviously it wont be the only missile they carry, but by its nature they wont need a large number to overwhelm a group of enemy ships either...

As same as with the modernization of BUK-M1 to BUK-M1-2 and latter on BUK-M3 where air defense system erased from the western military thought with its modernization momentarily becomes and widespread and very dangerous as same happens with the introduction of Zircon missile where all existing ships and new ones and small ones and big ones and surface ones and under-surface ones momentarily gains offensive capability west can not defend against thus Russian navy with the introduction of the Zircon missile raises its level of its potential to a position from which it views all others as from above.

For instance now becomes possible that a sole lurking Zircon equipped Kilo class sub devastate British QE carrier group with certainty although I suspect it could be done with 3M-54 just as same.

But the Russian Navy is incomparably smaller than the Western. He can't compete with west navy for dominance. Only China, which is building 15 destroyers at a time, will be able to stand up.

Arrow wrote:But the Russian Navy is incomparably smaller than the Western. He can't compete with west navy for dominance. Only China, which is building 15 destroyers at a time, will be able to stand up.

and because of the inability of western states to fight Zircon missile once the fighting begins numbers can quickly march in Russian favor and China numbers speak against western

favor

I think of this situation as a difference between the galley with catapults as naval artillery and the dreadnought

But the Russian Navy is incomparably smaller than the Western. He can't compete with west navy for dominance. Only China, which is building 15 destroyers at a time, will be able to stand up.

Smaller doesn't come in to it when one Russian navy corvette can carry 16 carrier killers.... such a corvette will dominate any 1,000km radius space of water it happens to be sitting in at any time.

Those 15 Chinese destroyers are not in any better position vis vie the Russian Corvette.

Basically the situation is that the US and UK and French Navies have dominated the swimming pool because the Americans are a big 2m tall 150kg black guy built like Mike Tyson, and the French and British guys are 1.8m tall 100kg heavy build big guys too... and up until recently Russia is a little 15 year old 50kg girl who was in no position to tell those other three what to do. Well Zircon is two 357 magnum revolvers each with 8 chambers while the three western men have bats and wooden shields.

There is no such thing as certainty, but the odds are now stacked in favour of the ships carrying the long range hypersonic missiles... but eventually that will change because the result is that everyone is going to get handguns of course... that is the nature of things. The thing is that having a 357 magnum that little girl is testing all sorts of materials to defend herself so by the time the big boys have hand guns the girl with the hand gun might have a bullet proof vest too.

Thanks
But Cirkon even if it is stealth thanks to the plasma will still be very visible in the IR band.

Arrow wrote:Thanks
But Cirkon even if it is stealth thanks to the plasma will still be very visible in the IR band.

And ? You will use manpad against then ?

Arrow wrote:Thanks
But Cirkon even if it is stealth thanks to the plasma will still be very visible in the IR band.

If it has an aerosol dispersal system like the Topol-M warhead, then it won't be 'that easy' to spot in the IR band.

But Cirkon even if it is stealth thanks to the plasma will still be very visible in the IR band.

You are not getting it are you... Zircon isn't supposed to be stealthy... nor is Granit or Onyx... they all fly at medium to high altitudes at full speed to overwhelm the defence using both speed and numbers... or in the case of Zircon just speed and manouver performance. The former are large missiles and carry all sorts of sneaky things like jammers and decoys that they release when they detect they are being tracked by ARH missile seekers and of course they can perform manouvers too, but with Zircon, its speed makes it irrelevant whether you don't see it till the last second or if you see it being launched.

Saudi Arabian airspace was penetrated because they didn't see anything coming, but if they did have better radar coverage and they did see it coming many of those drones and missiles should have been shot down... some might have gotten through because of their numbers... but not necessarily... because their low speed gives the defence time to deal with them a couple at a time. If they were supersonic there would be much less time, though they would be flying higher and more likely would have been detected.

There were gaps at low level in their air defences because they are optimised for aircraft and possibly ballistic missiles.

Zircon is optimised to defeat US carrier groups which are much better defended and have better radar and missile coverage so flying low and slow wont be effective because their AWACS aircraft can spot targets at the wave tops and even sitting in the water.

They could have gone stealthy or very very fast... real stealth is expensive and requires enormous precision and can be damaged easily to render all that stealth useless... a screw not tightened properly that is sticking up wont mean that panel will fall off, but it will ruin the RCS you just spend a trillion dollars to achieve.

Speed offers all sorts of other advantages... the scramjet technology in Zircon could one day be used in a variable cycle jet engine that starts as a turbojet and then turns into a scramjet to fly around the world in a few hours, or accelerate up to near space to launch satellite payloads cheaply and quickly and from anywhere on earth where there is a runway.

Lots of problems like dealing with heat and aerodynamic design and new fuel types etc but the investment can be used in a range of things... including SAMs and AAMs and ASMs and even UAVs and manned aircraft.

Hole wrote:

Meh...  these are just fan-art inspired by the (barely hypersonic) X-51a Waverider.

Whatever the actual configuration of Tsirkon is, it's not going to be a Waverider clone. The Ruskies are aiming MUCH higher than this crappy Boing-Boing tech demonstrator.

mnztr wrote:

GarryB wrote:

The thing is that having a 357 magnum that little girl is testing all sorts of materials to defend herself so by the time the big boys have hand guns the girl with the hand gun might have a bullet proof vest too.

The thing with hypesonics is they are fiendishly difficult to defend against. Even if you can perfect a powerful laser, the sea level distance to horizon is less then 3 seconds at hypersonic speed. At 30m height its still only 17 seconds.. and that is to acquire and shoot. The reasons these missiles have pop up and plunging attacks is firstly fusing (the missile will go right through the ship and if it blows up under the ship in the water its 100% a kill), secondly, if the missile is hit, getting showered with mach 2-4 debris is still pretty bad news.

Add to that the difficulty inherent in accurately tracking the incoming threat and directing a laser sufficiently accurate to put beam on target and pump sufficient heat into the target to overcome its already formidable ablative heat shields and achieve a kill in the VERY narrow time window available.

Now consider trying to do this against 5-10 flying a wolfpack....

LOL!!! The stress of it all... No wonder USN Brass are stocking up on stomach ulcer medication....

The thing with hypesonics is they are fiendishly difficult to defend against.

I agree, they are hard enough to track because they are moving so fast, but any change in trajectory needs to be measured precisely and because of the high flight speed the lead needed for an intercept can be enormous but a minor shift in trajectory can shift the point of interception several kilometres and then half a second later another turn can shift it several kilometres again... pretty soon you don't have enough energy or time to make it to the new interception point in time to intercept and sometimes you get to the interception point but the target has manouvered and is going to be somewhere else and you can't move from where you are to where you need to be in time to be there when the target is there... if you get there too early you can't just stop and wait for it to arrive...

Even if you can perfect a powerful laser, the sea level distance to horizon is less then 3 seconds at hypersonic speed.

The front of a hypersonic missile will be designed to withstand enormous temperatures and a simple design option could be laser transparent materials with a coloured fluid inside... the laser would pass through the outer material and boil the fluid... the fluid could be fuel on its way to the engine so normally in flight getting heated by friction gets it very hot so injection into the scramjet and burning it makes it even more effective high energy fuel... a laser heating it up further should make it more efficient as a fuel by adding even more heat energy to it... or it could just be some inert liquid absorbing energy from the laser for a few minutes...

Add to that the difficulty inherent in accurately tracking the incoming threat and directing a laser sufficiently accurate to put beam on target and pump sufficient heat into the target to overcome its already formidable ablative heat shields and achieve a kill in the VERY narrow time window available.

Now consider trying to do this against 5-10 flying a wolfpack....

Or perhaps the first launched weapon climbs to 100K metres and detonates a nuclear bomb powered EMP device to make surface ships take a nap and ionise the atmosphere for an hour or two while the rest of the missiles are on their way.... Surprise!

The ones with the biggest and most expensive assets will have the biggest headache. And the USN will just be a collection of floating targets.

Imagine a Russian corvette with 16 Zircon missiles sailing down the Med... it will be able to sink any ship or hit land targets within 1,000km of its position... I thought the Brits were taking the piss when they sent ships to escort Russian frigates down the English Channel but maybe they are protecting the UK from anhilation... there is no reason to assume the warheads wont be nukes....