Will HATO save its less important members if it does not suit them?

Russia is not dumb enough to bomb Poland or the Baltic states over political BS.

I am sure they wont invade, but bombing those places wouldn't be upsetting at all... no chance of hitting any decent WWII statues worth preserving for instance...

Russia will not use nukes over annexed territory, they aren't that insane or bloodthirsty unlike 90 percent of the members on this forum it seems.

If HATO "intervened" in Ukraine and sent in troops and decided to send them to the Crimean part of the Ukraine, would Russia ignore that?

You are using less than a percentage of the population you see on videos and crap to judge the entire west?

Of course... we must be judging the west from the internet because we don't both live in the west.... oops... hang on... yes we do...

Now that is also ignorant, sure you will find examples here and there but again I could do the same for the russians.

If they are just the same as us why does the west hate them so?

Please... if they were like the US they could go fuck themselves for all I care... the reason I like Russia is because they are different.

Not perfect... but different.

Congrats you finally said something that is logical, yes we would need a mass mobilization and that would take a few months but it would come and when it did the overstretched Russian army would quickly fall back.

What overstretched Russian Army?

Or are the mass mobilised HATO forces going to meet the Russians on the English Channel?

In order to defend and take on NATO, Russia would need a population much much much bigger then it has and would need an industry that it doesn't have. Russia could not win in a conventional war against NATO. It's completely illogical to think they can.

Why do you think a spat with a Baltic country would consume all the resources of Russia?

Russians support their military and they don't lie on why they fight for during a war.

More importantly they go to war for good reasons only. They were attacked in Georgia by the Georgian forces. In Syria, as Putin said... thousands of Russians and tens of thousands of men from eastern europe went to fight in Syria for terrorists... it makes sense for Russia to fight them there than let an ally be destroyed and then have them come back...

They would lose millions of men trying to keep that ground sure NATO would to, but NATO can afford millions of losses.

Hahahahahaha... yeah HATO is made up of countries that ran away or surrendered during WWII... Russia was one of those countries that just kept fighting... are you sure HATO would put up with millions of their young men killed in a war to protect the baltic countries that capitulated really fast to Nazi Germany and helped them kill Jews like the good little nazis they were. In fact many germans were horrified at what those baltic nazis did for them... but HATO will die by the million to defend their new allies... of course they will... HATO doesn't work if that is not true and HATO has to work... it is how the US controls europe.

Russia's population cannot afford that many men dead, it still hasn't recovered from ww2 and it will take decades more for them to even get close.

The only way either side could lose millions would be with a nuclear exchange and I doubt HATO would bother.

In the Ukraine the Ukrainian government forces are probably quite comparable to the military forces of the baltic states and how did they go against their own people? Not that great I hear... And against a properly armed and trained military force like the Russian Army I suspect they would do even worse... in fact like the Ukrainian soldiers in the Crimea did against the small Russian contingent of Sailors there... my understanding is that the Ukrainians quietly surrendered and not a shot was fired and nobody died... which is to the great credit of both sides.

But millions will die you say?

What if the Russians fund an opposition who claims the elections are rigged and that they are the real leader of the country and they need Russian troops in there to save peace and democracy... Hahahahahaha....

No the US and Europe would not just ignore Russia taking the Baltics because then that would simply make the Russians cocky that they can go further, this would not be permitted at all. Your logic is pretty much flawed, because if that the case they can do whatever they want since they will threaten the use of warheads.

Could say the same about east germany joining HATO... or hungary or poland or rumania etc etc etc etc... when exactly does europe become safe with HATO?

Supply lines aren't a big deal this isn't WW2 supply lines of that size are easy to cover.

Not what you said before...

Russia would get some targets sure but it doesn't have and will never have enough munitions to take out Europe, this is pure fantasy on your part and if it does that it well it will only push Europe harder which is fine. Do you really think Russia could knock out the EU with hundreds of missiles Lawls.

Russia has shown it knows what it is doing in recent conflicts. Russia has lots of weapons and could attack all sorts of targets but it wouldn't just attack everyone and everything for no reason... they aren't Israel.

I do not overestimate, Its simple as I have said Russia doesn't have the manpower to sustain occupation on such a wide area while maintaining defense on shorelines, fronts etc to fight back against NATO. It simply doesn't have the population for such a conflict and if it wanted to take the baltics whats what it would need to do.

The populations they are attacking include 30% which would be on their side... they can run the places... Russian troops would withdraw fairly quickly once the idiots are hung in the streets and normalcy returns...

We could also destroy their industry too, do you really think we can't bomb the shit out of their factories?.

When you try... that is when they will strike your power generation and ports and comms centres....

Again yes Russia in the opening stages would have an advantage, but as the months go on their advantages would be neutralized.

Taken straight from the cold war HATO text book... they have enormous armour advantages but we have technology and one of our tanks is worth 20 of theirs and once we win air superiority they will have no where to hide blah blah blah...

It would actually be worse for them to just seize the baltics not touch the rest of Europe as that would make mobilization efforts far easier, they would need to size all of Ukraine and Poland to make a good enough front, just taking the baltics is shooting themselves in the foot.

Yes... Russia wants to capture the ukraine and the baltics and belarus and pooland....

All the dreams of HATO come true at once.

Russia isn't going to invade Ukraine let alone the baltic states... why would they want to occupy them?

Then their fucked up economies and all their problems can be blamed on Russia.... Russia doesn't need that.

At best they will be bombed and have cruise missiles take out certain buildings seen as threats... most likely they will be ignored.

Once China finishes its military buildup, US will have to move 100% of its military in the Pacific leaving those baltics and Poland alone to face Russia and assume what they have been saying about russians for past 30 years.

As long as Russia has tactical nukes the Baltic states are not a problem and nor is Poland... they will continue to bark at the US because they need more troops based in their countries because Putin might poison them and invade.

A few Iskander brigades with new improved longer ranged missiles and nuclear payloads is all Russia needs in that direction... just as well there is global warming because gas supply is probably going to reduce when the Ukrainians decide stealing gas is their right because their economy has crashed and it is all Russias fault for letting them be fooled by the Americans to have a coup and turn to the EU.

Russia can just smile and ignore them while they bark away at how everything is Russias fault and they owe them trillions for all the mental damage they did to them, and for chernobyl and everything else ever...

@flamming

No, we haven't hinted and we have made the position clear if Russia attacks it will get a lethal response in return.

But yes they would be blocked and their economy would be sent into the shitter.

The missiles would not be a problem for long and while they may hinder efforts at first it would not last very long.

For the millions of Russia has NATO can deploy millions more.

Russia doesn't have the ability to target things beyond its borders in a war, its navy will never get that far out to sea and their submarines hunted down and sunk. So there is nothing they can do there.

The US would need time to challenge Russia in Europe that is true we could not do it right away but we can and would overpower them in Europe if push came to shove

@Iso

if you think the Russians would risk the deaths of their people over the Baltics, This convo is pretty much done. I cannot talk to some who is devoid of reasoning and thinks like a madman.

They would never do this in any reality nor would they use Nukes because deploying Nuke demands a response. Your view here is asinine and pure insanity.

No they will not use Nukes before that happens since using Nukes means everyone in Russia would end up dying, do I can't believe you are foolish enough to think Russia would sentence 150M people to death over the Baltics.

No, they aren't the terrain while as means of travel are far improved, faster, and more efficient. You really don't know what your talking about...Honestly for example can you tell me how long it would take to drive from say Berlin to Warsaw in 1945 compared to now?. Its a much quicker trip. Those internet articles are hurting you, buddy.

Let them bomb the shit out of the EU, which will only drive up demand to see the Russians pay for it harder.

Russian IADS while good isn't perfect there are gaps in it, and it's limited we could over well their AD networks with swarms of missiles easily. AD isn't the end all be all it simply slows your enemy down.

You need to learn distances my friend in order for Russian missiles to threaten all of Europe btw the launchers need to be in the range of Tomahawks. While they would get some shots off a lot of their launchers would be destroyed as they attempt to use them. While Kalibers do have a range of 1500miles at max range and at the max range missile losses a lot of speed and power making them easy to intercept.

Tomahawks have 1000 Mile range meaning the Kalibers cannot be far enough to protect themselves. So this Russian missile argument is just pure BS and shows a lack of understanding.

Talk as much as you can but your arguments are flawed by all accounts. You can think its a propaganda tool but the Russians know it's not, Fanboy?. How is pointing out the facts.

1. Russia would not get everyone killed over the Baltics. No matter what you think they aren't that insane.

2. Russia could not win in a war against NATO, even the military leaders of Russia say this but some armchair expert online thinks he knows better?. Maybe you should march into the Kremlin then Iso and demand to lead Russia's military because you clearly know better than all of them.

Make me a fanboy? what because I am stating a fact lol. Not being a fanboy pointing out the truth, nothing I said was wrong. Don't like it tough shit, I am not here to appease your misguided views.

But the HATO can beat Russia in x number of weeks claims have to continue because otherwise europe might realise it is not actually in its interests to make Russia an enemy... they have done it several times before and we know how that worked out... trillions of wasted dollars so that the MICs of come countries can make a quick buck... it also creates an organisation that can be used around the world by the US to ensure its money flow... HATO doesn't do poverty or famine... its business is oil.

I remember a bit of Blackadder in the last series about WWI which really doesn't get enough credit for the fantastic piece of history it is... he explains it all very well.

His inept colleagues (House and Baldrick) follow the party line and blame the Germans for the war, but as Blackadder explains powerful countries got together in alliances and agreements to defend each other, and were dragged into a war that was really none of their business by the little countries in their groups who wanted to fight each other.... made terribly brave by the big powers that they thought supported them. The idea of two massive opposing forces facing each other acting as the others deterrent meant a big war could never happen... he said. To which Baldrick said.... but this is a sort of a war... (meaning WWI). Yes, said Blackadder... the problem with the plan for deterrence was that it was Bollocks.

I wonder if Blaming Russia for everything and absorbing all its little hostile neighbours into HATO, a military organisation with no purpose except to confront Russia, will keep the peace in Europe...

Blaming Germany after WWI created WWII, blaming the Soviets created the Cold War, now it is Russia and China that are the bad guys... I am sure they will have learned their lesson that making enemies is ultimately destructive and terribly wasteful of resources... or not.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:@Iso



2. Russia could not win in a war against NATO, .

I don't understand how Nato could win a war against Russia. Define winning a war against Russia.

They win when there is no war but basically Europe does not trade with or cooperate with Russia so they have to trade and cooperate with the US instead.

Russia has no interest in the baltic states, no interest in finland, no interest in ukraine or georgia... at the moment they are keeping Belarus a viable country and when Luka is gone they can have a proper vote and decide who they want to lead them... I doubt very much that Russia would force them to vote for a pro Russian candidate, because that will always be counter productive and backfire massively... if the new leadership of Belarus want Russia out I am sure they will withdraw and leave Belarus to it...

It is the US that promotes an aggressive Russia that wants to invade and attack... but it is HATO bases moving closer to Russia and not vice versa...