Tu-22M3: News

a few of my pics. first pic the Tu-22m2 (notice intakes) and then after Tu-22m3. in the second last picture is a KH-22NA version used to carry a with a 350–1000-kiloton nuclear warhead and last pic i have included because even hough it has the nose cone of the Tu-160 the shape and size of the aircraft easily looks a variant of the Tu-22, its the Tu-134UBL a Tu-160 crew training version, with Tu-160 nose cone . enjoy

As you mentioned the Tu-134UBL was intended for crew training for Tu-160 crews... enough room to get a dozen crews in at a time for training and practise so other crews can "feel" the mistakes of other crews in real time...

But I remember looking at pictures of this plane in the 1990s and thinking it was cheaper to operate... would it make sense to fit some real bombs to this plane and other airliners with similar modifications.

Then when the Russians started talking about their Gefest & T automatic bombing system I thought back to this design as a dual purpose training model that can be used in some theatres as a bomber itself.

I mean if they are making another 50 Tu-160s then they are going to need to train personnel, but then a great way to save money would be to modify a brand new jet aircraft perhaps with a fly by wire system and also four engines to properly replicate managing four engines... you could add the bombing system at a fairly early design stage and fit it out to look like a White Swan with plenty of capacity for dumb bombs that could be released with precision on targets in all sorts of places at very low costs.

Sure the west will complain about the innocent victims of the Russian bombing rampages that hit schools and hospitals and churches and weddings of course but for training crews, reducing the needed flight hours on rather more expensive aircraft, yet offering more realistic training especially if the actual radar is used so you could train to bomb targets and check your results with various cameras and perhaps even a rear facing radar for altitude bombing missions... on the cheap.

GarryB wrote:As you mentioned the Tu-134UBL was intended for crew training for Tu-160 crews... enough room to get a dozen crews in at a time for training and practise so other crews can "feel" the mistakes of other crews in real time...

But I remember looking at pictures of this plane in the 1990s and thinking it was cheaper to operate... would it make sense to fit some real bombs to this plane and other airliners with similar modifications.

Then when the Russians started talking about their Gefest & T automatic bombing system I thought back to this design as a dual purpose training model that can be used in some theatres as a bomber itself.

I mean if they are making another 50 Tu-160s then they are going to need to train personnel, but then a great way to save money would be to modify a brand new jet aircraft perhaps with a fly by wire system and also four engines to properly replicate managing four engines... you could add the bombing system at a fairly early design stage and fit it out to look like a White Swan with plenty of capacity for dumb bombs that could be released with precision on targets in all sorts of places at very low costs.

Sure the west will complain about the innocent victims of the Russian bombing rampages that hit schools and hospitals and churches and weddings of course but for training crews, reducing the needed flight hours on rather more expensive aircraft, yet offering more realistic training especially if the actual radar is used so you could train to bomb targets and check your results with various cameras and perhaps even a rear facing radar for altitude bombing missions... on the cheap.

I don't see why not I think only reason is that they are no longer being produced and many fell into neglect or Air Forces not having ti-160 was most likely reason and would Russia be keen to buy back?

I suspect planning to build 50 new Tu-160s would justify a new airliner conversion or two... the question is... do they want the old Tupolev or would they prefer a newer design.

I would suspect a newer design would make more sense as the radar and avionics would all need to be replaced anyway, and a modern aircraft probably has more flexibility in terms of the flight control systems mimicking the flight characteristics of the actual aircraft.

The old aircraft didn't handle like a White Swan, but enabled the crews to practise working together using the same avionics as that fitted to the bomber... I would expect the old Tupolev didn't feel like a supersonic bomber very much, but that wasn't the point... the point was training in the air with the same avionics as those fitted to the bomber with a radar with the same performance for finding and pretending to hit actual targets with practise bombs perhaps...

Certainly the bigger the plane the more it could carry, the longer range it could cover with greater payloads, so for alternative uses like cheap high altitude bomber it would be more useful, but the bigger and longer ranged it is the more expensive it will be to buy and operate.

Something smaller would save money... if you were smart you could include a Tu-160 type inflight refuelling probe so they could practise that and also extend range/edurance as well. Internal weapon bays could be used for bombs and air to air missiles like the ones used in new stealth fighters and tested for the new stealth bomber...

Being essentially a cheap bomber emulator it could be used in lower intensity conflicts and also sold... with reduced avionics and systems to countries as a medium to high altitude bomber using cheap dumb bombs they could make themselves...

They could even use EW and targeting pods for testing and evaluation because you could have various seats on board with displays for the pods carried so tests can go on independently. Such pods might be useful for using optical or laser guided weapons as well and of course self defence pods would be useful even in low intensity conflicts just in case... models could also be sold for export too.

That's an awsome design for all those specialized military versions. Too bad it failed on civilian market.

Never say never... the Russian military buying these and a few other variants could stimulate the civilian market to buy some too... they could upgrade the design and give it new engines with something in the PD family of aircraft engines to make it efficient. Increase the composite materials in the structure to make it lighter... aerodynamics haven't changed that much...

I believe we got ourselves a 3rd brand new hypersonic missile boys.

I would guess this is Gzur?

The Kh-32 is rocket based, so I would hope they don't continue down that path simply because the chemicals needed are pretty nasty, but it gets the job done I suppose.

With new scramjet motor designs however they should be able to use less energetic fuels to achieve much better performance...

The first model Gzur is supposed to be a mach 6 x 1,500km range that is about 6 metres long to fit in the internal weapon bays of the Bear and Backfire with a weight of about 1.5 tons. Later versions of this weapon are expected to be bigger and faster and longer ranged...

It is not supposed to be related to any other previous missile type and based on the specs I would guess is a replacement for the Kh-15 Kickback defence penetration missile....

Well I guessed it firstly lol1 attack just joking boss don't send me to Afbanistan it's cold there

You did but I started replying before you posted, so I had not read it yet.

So GZUR is basically like the THOR-ER project a ramjet with the intention to go hypersonic.

As far as I can tell the Gzur programme is a two step programme started in about 2010 and is an all Russian programme that starts with Gzur 1 which is a 6m long 1,500kg ramjet powered missile with a flight range of 1,500km at mach 6. The second step involves a test design that is attached to the front of a Kh-32 and is about 12 metres long with a flight speed of Mach 12. The first model was supposed to be ready by 2020... so it is right on time.

The French MBDA were using the Tu-22M3 for testing high speed missile called LEA but that was terminated... presumably in 2014 when they stopped all sorts of cooperation... the Tu-22M3 could be used to get prototypes up to mach 1.7 at about 14km altitude.... a pretty useful altitude and speed for a large aircraft able to carry big heavy prototypes and test missiles.

Maybe they scaled up the Kh-59MK2 for longer range to take advantage of greater payload capacity of the Tu-22M over the MiG-31?

Maybe they scaled up the Kh-59MK2 for longer range to take advantage of greater payload capacity of the Tu-22M over the MiG-31?

First of all I suspect you mean the Kh-58 ARM rather than the Kh-59 subsonic attack missile, (ie the AS-11 rather than the AS-13 and AS-18 types).

I can't see even a 6 metre long 1.5 ton missile with solid fuelled rocket reaching 1,500km at mach 6.

To be clear the AS-16 or Kh-15 Kickback ASM was a 6m long 1.5 ton missile with a top speed of mach 5 and a range of 250-300km.

They have improved their solid rocket fuel but not that much...

GarryB wrote:

Maybe they scaled up the Kh-59MK2 for longer range to take advantage of greater payload capacity of the Tu-22M over the MiG-31?

First of all I suspect you mean the Kh-58 ARM rather than the Kh-59 subsonic attack missile, (ie the AS-11 rather than the AS-13 and AS-18 types).
.

Doh.....   I mean to say Kh-47M2 Kinzhal but cut n paste from the wrong folder and was in too much of a hurry to notice...