Russia pre and post Οctober Revolution

kvs wrote:I don't hear a squeak about Yeltsin's regime

Yeltin actually sent the tanks to fire and shell the frickin parliament and nobody in the US or EU (then EEC) said anything.
The same establishment that few years back put sanctions on China for Tienanmen square. Go figure

PapaDragon wrote:'
Seriously, what is up with this commie surge these days. Could it be that McCarthy was right? 

Now we have another (surprise, British) clown claiming that communism was perfectly fine but that it failed because of, you guessed it, Russians:



How Russia’s revolutionaries won the battle but lost the war


http://www.arabnews.com/node/1188421



I mean, never mind the fact that whole thing was load of bullshit that would have failed miserably no matter where experiment was conducted, no sir, system was fine, it's just that those dastardly Russians fucked up their promised Utopia... Fucking snowflakes... 

kvs wrote: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/05/leftist-filmmaker-celebrates-bolshevik-takover-russia-triumph-ordinary-people-unchallenged-sky-news/

British Russia haters have jumped the shark.

"Lets cherrypick literal new left nobodies while ignoring the ubiquitous capitalist and alt right lies about the USSR being peddled by all major western media outlets in last 70 years"
The posts

Dumb chetnik wrote:So Red Terror and Civil War were just unfortunate side effects of spontaneous implementation of their Utopia but real problem is Putin and modern Russia? Those two are worse than Red Terror?

The civil war was caused by imperialist aggression against the revolution of the peasants and proletariat by directly invading and funding murderous aristocratic(the white army), reactionary(Pilsudski, Czech legions, Ungern)) and religious fundamentalist(Basmachi, Cossacks) proxies who commited countless terror attacks and massacres against the soviet people, as well as ruining the economy through their pillaging.

The was no red terror outside of the repressions of 1937, and most of those were against actual imperialist agents, religious extremist Islamic terrorists. The death count was far less than the BS propaganda, and even if it was wrong in today's age, it wasn't worse than what reactionary capitalist countries were doing back then(British empire murdering anticolonialists workers by the thousands, Eastern European reactionary bourgeois dictatorships massacreing tens of thousands of innocents and even slightly leftist activists(Bulgaria was a victim of Czarist repressions in the 20s and 30s))

If they love communism so much maybe they should try it themselves for a change, damn thing was already field tested extensively. I say go for it, make West great again!

Except they don't, and I sincerely hope there is an anticapitalist revolution in the west to destroy the bourgeoisie international terrorist scum there once and for all.

kvs wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

kvs wrote:http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/05/leftist-filmmaker-celebrates-bolshevik-takover-russia-triumph-ordinary-people-unchallenged-sky-news/

British Russia haters have jumped the shark.

Oh man this is fucking gold:

...“People think that history is one long evil continuum, from Lenin, to Stalin, to the Gulag, to the Holocaust, to Putin,” she adds, before asserting that this is “incredibly wrong”....

So Red Terror and Civil War were just unfortunate side effects of spontaneous implementation of their Utopia but real problem is Putin and modern Russia? Those two are worse than Red Terror?

Because all it's needed is just one more genocidal coup d'etat and everything will be fine? You can't make this shit up...oh wait, you can. 

If they love communism so much maybe they should try it themselves for a change, damn thing was already field tested extensively. I say go for it, make West great again! 

The mind boggles.  I won't get into the value of theoretical communism.   But the Red Terror and subsequent repressions were some of the
worst cases of evil butchery of innocents in history.   To make out Putin's administrations to be worse than those periods is grotesquely
obscene revisionism.   Where are the millions of Putin's victims?   Under Yeltsin, over 8 million Russians died from shock therapy
monetarist economic voodoo.   I don't hear a squeak about Yeltsin's regime.   Under Putin Russia's population has begun to grow again.  
And Putin released over 200,000 from jail back during the 2000s.    There are no gulags and no capital punishment in Russia since before 1991.    

But I see a pattern here.  When Russians have representative government that looks out for their interests, then Russia is bad, bad, bad.
But when Russia is rule by a criminal regime that is preoccupied with slaughtering Russians or destroying Russia's economy, then that
is just dandy.   Western pundits and academics were praising the USSR during the 1920s and 1930s.   The Cold War started when
thing actually normalized in the USSR.   The best period of the USSR was after WWII until 1991.   The late 40s and most of the 50s
were rough due to WWII and Stalin was still in power until 1953.   But the excesses seen before WWII were no longer there.   You
could say the 1960s were the USSR golden era.   But then after the mid 1970s stagnation set in and the communist elite decided to
go capitalist.    

It was always the Western empires who were hell bent on the destruction of the first anticapitalist great power, hence the massive invasions by reactionary proxies, sanctions, overthrowing of potential allies, causing the crash of oil prices, regime change operations,etc.). While the soviet government made many incompetent decisions, it always had the interest of Russian and Slavic power in mind.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:

Dumb chetnik wrote:.

Except they don't, and I sincerely hope there is an anticapitalist revolution in the west to destroy the bourgeoisie international terrorist scum there once and for all.

You may want to watch that mouth my dear barely old enough to drive commie neighbour 

As for commie revolution they had quite a few and they all failed miserably as expected

In case you haven't noticed your precious "proletariat" wants to be ruled by "bourgeoisie" scum as practice has proven extensively, your nation being one of many prominent examples

PapaDragon wrote:As for commie revolution they had quite a few and they all failed miserably as expected

KiloGolf wrote:

eehnie wrote:

kvs wrote:How come communism failed in China, Vietnam

??? failed ???

Yes and it resulted in Russia loosing historically Russian territories, cities and towns in the Ukraine, entire Belarus, the Baltics and the -stans. That's what communism ultimately achieved for Russia, a shrinking land mass(and national identity) in key European and central Asian regions. Also, military retreat on all fronts, Eastern Europe, old Russia proper, central Asia, Mongolia and the Middle East.

<slow 80s movie clap>

Failed are your bids to find the reality.

eehnie wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:As for commie revolution they had quite a few and they all failed miserably as expected

KiloGolf wrote:

eehnie wrote:

kvs wrote:How come communism failed in China, Vietnam

??? failed ???

Yes and it resulted in Russia loosing historically Russian territories, cities and towns in the Ukraine, entire Belarus, the Baltics and the -stans. That's what communism ultimately achieved for Russia, a shrinking land mass(and national identity) in key European and central Asian regions. Also, military retreat on all fronts, Eastern Europe, old Russia proper, central Asia, Mongolia and the Middle East.

Failed are your bids to find the reality.

So most powerful man in the world leds a country that is capitalist in all but name?

Got it!  

So why human society is degrading despite the numerous prophets and revolutionaries and philosophers that god or nature has provided over the past thousands of years ? Never ending wars and pollution and social breakdown ?

I have said before that humans do not live by natural laws . They set their own laws . These are approximations to the natural laws . But in order to discover and collectively realise and implement such laws , people need to understand the problem . Like a scientist understands a problem . By inclusion or exclusion of variables . Historical forces do not yield their effects over short term either . It is not like a quick school chemistry set . Red liquid plus green gives off smoke ! Many generations are needed to see these forces at play . And connect the cause and effect and see the puzzle .

Like in the bible , town A has no criminals and town B has criminals . After a few generations , town B was destroyed by god !
But what if social situation was unstable . War or famine or disease would disperse the population and diminish it's oral and written history . Stories are no longer told . Parents die young . Children are separated from parents . Libraries are burnt . In this cases , human society can not collectively remember past lessons or apply future solutions . It can not learn . Human culture becomes degraded .

Some creatures like spiders have genetic biological memory . A baby spider can make a web without learning from parent spider . But higher animals like apes and men . If taken from parent early , then loose ability to speak or hunt . So environmental conditions if changing fast that lead to disruption , then also degrade humanity . Degrade our empathy . Ability to bond and show concern for others . Adapt to environmental conditions . Make good laws .

Humans change their environments . According to their needs or wants .They make their own social laws that are at best approximations to natural law and at worst are contradictory to them . Humans undergo degredation because of the very environmental changes they make . They become less empathic . Less human . A vicious circle . Never to return to paradise .

PapaDragon wrote:

eehnie wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:As for commie revolution they had quite a few and they all failed miserably as expected

KiloGolf wrote:

eehnie wrote:

kvs wrote:How come communism failed in China, Vietnam

??? failed ???

Yes and it resulted in Russia loosing historically Russian territories, cities and towns in the Ukraine, entire Belarus, the Baltics and the -stans. That's what communism ultimately achieved for Russia, a shrinking land mass(and national identity) in key European and central Asian regions. Also, military retreat on all fronts, Eastern Europe, old Russia proper, central Asia, Mongolia and the Middle East.

<slow 80s movie clap>

Failed are your bids to find the reality.

So most powerful man in the world leds a country that is capitalist in all but name?

Got it!  

This is what the Western Propaganda made you think. But no. You have still a long way to find the reality.

nomadski wrote:So why human society is  degrading despite  the numerous prophets  and revolutionaries  and  philosophers that god or nature has  provided over the past thousands of years  ?  Never ending  wars  and  pollution and  social breakdown ?.....

Interesting thoughts...I generally agree.

There are some that argue that tribal organisation was/is the best social structure for humans. We seem to be genetically wired for it.

First of all, there are way too many humans on earth. These numbers are simply unsustainable and I suspect nature itself will take care of that

The Soviets continued to purchase products on the capitalist market...

They paid for licence production of the Gatling gun, the Maxim machine gun, a range of tractors and truck designs from the west, the Dakota transport aircraft,

the huge irony in what you are saying is that China did not become powerful because of capitalism.... it has become powerful because of US consumerism.... the US model of consumption demands cheap products their economy cannot possibly provide, so they need an external cheap labour source to produce the crap they fill their lives with.... the ideal companion to a capitalist republic like the US is a slave labour economy like China where the workers work for minimum wages with no rights. The big companies make all the money of course...

The big anniversary is mere day away and yet nobody in good old Russia seems to give two shits about it which seems to be driving everyone insane in homelands of Das Kapital (TM)

Revolution, what revolution? Russians show little interest in 1917 centenary

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/06/revolution-what-revolution-russians-show-little-interest-in-1917-centenary


Alongside mandatory ''Evil Putin does not like our revolution'' shtick we have cold hard facts like these:

...“We realised we had to mark the revolution centenary because it’s one of the most important events of the 20th century, but we also see that there is little interest among the audience,” said Konstantin Ernst, the powerful head of Russia’s Channel One, and a producer of the Trotsky series. “Over the last year we’ve released various trial products, and there was no real reaction from the audience.” ....

And comment sections on articles like these are the best.

You have on one side bunch of assholes that are butthurt that their countries did not help Nazis exterminate Russians (and other assorted subhumans) and on the other side you have bunch of commie dickheads who want to exterminate Russians because they feel that Russians have ruined their promised Red Utopia.

Watching these two packs of retards devouring each other in comment sections is almost as fun as season 2 of Stranger Things.

kvs wrote:The Germans, Brits and Americans helped foist the Bolsheviks into power since they wanted to break up the Russian Empire (for obvious reasons of gain).

And the Bolsheviks transformed a shattered Russian Empire into a victorious, powerful Soviet Union which before 1939 managed to hold most of the Imperial territories, managed to salvaged the lost territories after 1945, and today despite the dissolution of the USSR, the Russian Federation still retains most of the land and still is the biggest country in the world.

And the dissolution of the USSR in fact had nothing to do with communism, if you understand the nature behind this.

Your argument that "the Bolsheviks break Russia up" have no merit, because they did the exactly opposite.

But "the Bolsheviks break the capitalist, imperialist, Tsarist, royalist Russia up" then, yes, it is correct. And it is the good thing, I see no need for existence of an oppressive Russia which only care about the ruling class at the expense of the majority.

"Motherland of the working class" is completely different from "Motherland of the bourgeioise class", although many people criminally and purposely describe these two as the same thing.

It is the Tsarist Russia who caused the rift between Russian and minorities. Do you honestly believe that Imperial Russia expanded and ruled peacefully and bloodlessly ? And it is the Tsarist Russia accelerated its doom by throwing its people into a devastating war which they were repeatedly beaten by Germany.

And yet they blamed everything to the communists. The very old formula: everything in the world is the fault of the communists.

And it was the Tsarist White Army teamed up with foreign powers to back stab their own fellows, they aimed to restore their former privileges at the expense of the Motherland and their people. And again, they blamed everything on the communists.

Prior 1917 Russia was simply a marginal power which was never treated as equal by the West and it was one of the most backward economy amongst the big powers. Only under the Soviet Union it transformed into a superpower, who instills nightmare to its enemies and who is the pride of the bullied people, even till today when it was long deceased, the legacy is still on.

And yet the so-called Russian "nationalists" still blame everything on the communists, although the power and wealth they enjoy is inherited from the Soviet Union.

Nationalists are in fact amongst the worst backstabber in this world, and they usually tend to blame the communists for their own fault although it is the communists who have to fix these mess.