TOR Air Defence system

For Indians...

That mount is an atrocious idea, but whatever the customer wants I guess.

If the suspension is rated for the weight and holds out, together with other parameters within nominal values (height of centre of gravity, etc...); then I don't see why it's an atrocious idea.

A driver gets careless, and goes slightly too fast around a corner on a road.....and humpty dumpty tips over.

It is not a "critical" fault, but that center of gravity is high and in service shit happens. I've seen S-400 get stuck in some big potholes, that thing above would tip over in such a scenario.

Indeed, but if it never leaves the paved road and is driven sensibly then it will cost a small fraction of what the tracked version costs to operate and maintain.

In addition to the low cost command guided missiles this system wont be cheap, but over time its very high performance against a range of targets plus the low cost of actually using it means it should be an excellent system.


Awesome pic BTW... got my vote.  

xeno wrote:
For Indians...

I personally would more like to see this Tor-M2KM on BAZ truck, than on TATA.

Video of Tor-M2KM in testing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQAmpY7H1-g

TR1 wrote:A driver gets careless, and goes slightly too fast around a corner on a road.....and humpty dumpty tips over.

It is not a "critical" fault, but that center of gravity is high and in service shit happens. I've seen S-400 get stuck in some big potholes, that thing above would tip over in such a scenario.

Yeah, looking at it again - it does look more like a bad idea on wheels.
As GazB says, they just have to make sure to use it carefully.

Whelp, not Russia's fault/concern in any case.

Just looking at the video it looks like a flat bed truck with the TOR system body and turret sitting on top... if the body was integrated into the trailer it could be fitted lower down, but I suspect they want to leave the truck trailer intact so it can be used as a truck too.
Pretty much you get what you pay for and this will likely be very cheap and in my opinion will be driven to a place like an HQ or ammo dump or airfield and then lifted off the trailer and left there for significant periods of time with the truck able to go elsewhere to do other things.

Im wondering by looking at this picture could this mean 16 missiles per vehicle and not 8 as up to now or even if it cant I bet small construction alteration would make this possible. 

I think the issue is below "turret" space.

Im wondering by looking at this picture could this mean 16 missiles per vehicle and not 8 as up to now or even if it cant I bet small construction alteration would make this possible.

Late model TOR have increased numbers of missiles ready to launch.

Can't remember off the top of my head whether it was 12 or 16 missiles ready to fire in the new model with presumably 3 or 4 4 tube missile modules per vehicle.

Here are few good pictures of the launchers and missile positions. Certain adjustments would need to be done but nothing big. 

TR1 can you please check for some interesting news if there are any?

http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2013/10/2_31.html  - lots of promo materials on Gur Khan attacks!

Sure thing Viktor, I will reply in the appropriate threads (he posted lots of stuff from all sectors of defense industry).

Regarding the Tor-M2MK, I think all the promotion info you have already seen in English, nothing new specifically.

Developer: newest rocket for "Tor-M2" direct hit knocks

1. 9M338 entering service with astonishing accuracy (hit-to-kill)
2. Future TOR-M2 with 16 9M338 missiles  

Interlocutor of the agency also said that the creation of a new missile, which, by its dimensions smaller than predecessors, has increased ammunition "Tor-M2" is two-fold - from eight to 16 units.

Finally !!! now this will have impact on modern battlefield


But also this:


In Russia, created a new complex air defense with a "remarkable accuracy"

Looks like you were right Victor, I guess the missile is a bit smaller so with some clever angling they can fit x2 of the missiles...makes sense considering how fast Tor can shoot off 4 rounds.

Btw from the article:
"Мы отстрелили пять ракет по очень сложным мишеням (ракета комплекса "Оса" — "Саман"), из которых три были сбиты прямыми попаданиями ракеты в ракету, то есть лоб в лоб. Это отличный результат, потрясающая точность. Это уникально. Остальные цели были также поражены осколочным потоком боевых частей ракет", — сказал Друзин.

"We shot 5 missiles at difficult targets (from the Osa missile complex- Saman target), of which 3 were hit directly, that is, nose to nose. This is an excellent result, wonderful accuracy. Rest of the targets were also destroyed with the warhead of the missile"

Article also says the first batch of 40 missiles were made.

So the 9M338 missiles for the new Tor and the RZV-MD we saw at the last MAKS are one and the same ?

Also, the news above are they referring to the very system on TATA chassis tested recently in the previous images ) or is it a different system altogether? And considering the changes shouldn't this new Tor be called Tor-M3 or something?

Thanks.

(btw, regarding the Tor-M2KM, imo it seems the TATA truck is mostly carrying the system from a A to B, as probably the indians want to used the Tor in mostly fixed positions, rather then fully mobile like other operators, although some sort of mobility is retained by having the system capable for being fired from the truck)

Excellent, finally will Tor-M2 get its missiles, which were planed for it.

This is very good news... the TOR system was not cheap... it has very expensive but also very capable radars and electronics in it so it didn't replace OSA one for one in service.

With the new missiles improving the performance being able to be fitted to older model vehicles this means they can get better performance as quickly as they can produce the new missiles.

The test is interesting as it is the equivalent of S-400 shooting down S-300s to be cleared for service...

mack8 wrote:So the 9M338 missiles for the new Tor and the RZV-MD we saw at the last MAKS are one and the same ?

Also, the news above are they referring to the very system on TATA chassis tested recently in the previous images  ) or is it a different system altogether? And considering the changes shouldn't this new Tor be called Tor-M3 or something?

Thanks.

(btw, regarding the Tor-M2KM, imo it seems the TATA truck is mostly carrying the system from a A to B, as probably the indians want to used the Tor in mostly fixed positions, rather then fully mobile like other operators, although some sort of mobility is retained by having the system capable for being fired from the truck)

1) 9M338 missile from MAKS-2013 is new Tor-M2 missile
2) This is different system - TATA has nothing to do with this (it is only meant for Indian market and uses 9M331M missile most likely although it is TOR-M2)
3) It is likely it will get new name like TOR-2M but on the same time it is likely that all previous TOR versions will be (or can be) modernized with this new missile
4) TOR-M and all latter versions can function in fully automatic mode meaning without any human input - so yes TOR on TATA chasis can fire without any problems with or without humans

Here is a blog input about the subject from SAM "Tor-M2" is finally voiced publicly Vestnik PVO

TR1 wrote:Looks like you were right Victor, I guess the missile is a bit smaller so with some clever angling they can fit x2 of the missiles...makes sense considering how fast Tor can shoot off 4 rounds.

Btw from the article:
"Мы отстрелили пять ракет по очень сложным мишеням (ракета комплекса "Оса" — "Саман"), из которых три были сбиты прямыми попаданиями ракеты в ракету, то есть лоб в лоб. Это отличный результат, потрясающая точность. Это уникально. Остальные цели были также поражены осколочным потоком боевых частей ракет", — сказал Друзин.

"We shot 5 missiles at difficult targets (from the Osa missile complex- Saman target), of which 3 were hit directly, that is, nose to nose. This is an excellent result, wonderful accuracy. Rest of the targets were also destroyed with the warhead of the missile"

Article also says the first batch of 40 missiles were made.

It is a logical step forward. When you see it number of guided missiles per fighter has gone up dramatically in comparison with Vietnam era. Because of that Russian view saturation as 

a serious threat and because of it all their SAMs are getting more target guidance channels and more missiles. If you look number of missiles on modern SAM that are replacing old ones

- > Pancir in comparison to Tunguska
- > BUK-M3 in comparison to BUK-M2
- > S-350 in comparison to S-300 and 9M96 class in general

it was only matter of time before TORs turn would come. I suspect that Morfei will have quite of arsenal per launcher too.

Tors on position around Sochi. With the look at search radar, they are most probably Tor-M2.

Tor-M2U deployed at Sochi:
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/684526.html