Project 885: Yasen class #2

PapaDragon wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

And again, the only reason why the USA havent got loss of life submarine accident is sheer luck....

Never heard of USS Thresher or USS Scorpion?

Those happened back when Elvis was still around

Like the last Soviet / Russian loss of life space accident.

Columbia: 7 dead

Kursk: 118 dead

Russians are in the lead but if you think it's a good thing you are in for a surprise

What you try to proove ?

The superiority of the USA systems ? That is more of a myth, if you put the target armreach then it is easy to hit it.

PapaDragon wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:What you try to proove ?

The superiority of the USA systems ? That is more of a myth, if you put the target armreach then it is easy to hit it.

Nothing, no need for proving

What I am saying is that Russians and pro-Russians have no right to criticize USN subs and to even mention USS Thresher or USS Scorpion because those two events are anomalies in US naval history while Russians were routinely losing subs by the dozens

losing subs by the dozens? You are exaggerating.

But it is true, no one should criticize. But the US does it the most so they have no leg to stand on.

PapaDragon wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:What you try to proove ?

The superiority of the USA systems ? That is more of a myth, if you put the target armreach then it is easy to hit it.

Nothing, no need for proving

What I am saying is that Russians and pro-Russians have no right to criticize USN subs and to even mention USS Thresher or USS Scorpion because those two events are anomalies in US naval history while Russians were routinely losing subs by the dozens

Ok, I write again :
1. The USA has several near miss accidents in the past decades regards of submarine.
2. It is sheer luck to avoid full crew loss in those accidents.
3. It was simply due to luck - if you chack the CCCP/Russian space program vs USA, it is visible over there they haven't had similar luck.
4. The CCCP/Russian submarines has more aggressive operational/design characteristics than the USA ones, and it is easy to drive safe on a family car (like virginaia) than with a race car (like yassen)


Example, you have two chemist, both of them lack any discipline regards of chemical handling.

Each of them ten chemical on they desk, including a bottle of nitroglicerine.

Both of them randomly using them, and leave them on they desk.

Both of them has an accident, one of them knock of a bottle of HNO3, the otehr knock off one bottle Nitroglycerin.

One die, the other quietly tide up his desk.

So, the one who "only" had an accident with the nitric accid has better work practice than the other with the nitro ?


I have to mention the above accident caused the death of the lead scientis of the USA missile program.

Oh fanboys trying to bring up US Sub accidents? Lol.

I don't even neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to argue this.

Just go look at US losses in sub accidents vs Russians, that's all the facts you need.

Sheer luck lol, no it's not sheer luck. What propaganda. True we lost two boats but USSR losses before 1990 are just god awful in the amount

Since 2000

Russia: 161

US: 4

I am not counting submarine accidents such as S-80, K-129, B-37

Sorry but "luck" doesn't work like that when it comes to submarines, this isn't some video game of RNG generator.

You might not like it but the facts don't give a **** about your feelings.

The USSR has also lost more than 161 men in sub accidents A LOT MORE.

Infantile fanboi dick stroking over accidents. As if there is some sort of inverse model that can be constructed from any of these submarine
accidents about the level of submarine tech. Moron fanbois have no clue since they are too busy stroking their insecure egos via their
dicks. As with rocket accidents, there are corrective measures and not total flushing of systems down the toilet. And there are not
just submarines involved since the accidents have been caused by torpedoes and missiles on board those subs. If Soviet subs, and hence
the wanker fantasy Russian ones, are such garbage then the accident rate would be through the roof.

Insecure losers cannot even handle the notion that no US war on Russia is going to be a cakewalk. So they spend their time trolling
fora about how inferior Russian intellects are and how Russia "does not make anything" and if it somehow manages to nail together a
a system, then it is self-evidently garbage.

This forum should adopt the same zero tolerance approach as the NATzO fanboi fora. If you spend all your time on this board pissing
on Russia and Russians, without even making factual arguments with citations, then you deserve a permaban for being the troll that you
are.

And to the poster who smugly claimed that the serious members of this forum engage in such activity, GTFO.

Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

limb wrote:Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

Last 40 years?

K-429, hell they managed to sink the thing twice.

K-219.

Lots of others, Nevermind how many subs the USSR lost trying to get a functional nuclear submarine.

kvs wrote:Infantile fanboi dick stroking over accidents.   As if there is some sort of inverse model that can be constructed from any of these submarine
accidents about the level of submarine tech.    Moron fanbois have no clue since they are too busy stroking their insecure egos via their
dicks.   As with rocket accidents, there are corrective measures and not total flushing of systems down the toilet.   And there are not
just submarines involved since the accidents have been caused by torpedoes and missiles on board those subs.   If Soviet subs, and hence
the wanker fantasy Russian ones, are such garbage then the accident rate would be through the roof.  

Insecure losers cannot even handle the notion that no US war on Russia is going to be a cakewalk.   So they spend their time trolling
fora about how inferior Russian intellects are and how Russia "does not make anything" and if it somehow manages to nail together a
a system, then it is self-evidently garbage.

This forum should adopt the same zero tolerance approach as the NATzO fanboi fora.   If you spend all your time on this board pissing
on Russia and Russians, without even making factual arguments with citations, then you deserve a permaban for being the troll that you
are.

And to the poster who smugly claimed that the serious members of this forum engage in such activity, GTFO.

Oh buts its okay if Russian fanboys make shit up and to use your words piss on Westerners?. and try to say the US is lucky it hasn't had nearly the amount of sub losses and deaths as the Russians have had with no facts to back it up.

You can't cry wolf when your doing the same shit, you are such a child.

One of the members ran their mouth and they got corrected, that is all.

The Losharik fire was just a couple years ago in 2019. Did you people already forget that one.
But I would have to agree that considering the large amount of submarines Russia operates and all the different classes in use the accident rate could be worse.

PapaDragon wrote:

limb wrote:Outside of the kursk and komsomolets, what russian/soviet SSNs were sunk in the last 40 years? Both here utterly freak accidents too

Freak accidents? More like a regular occurrences:

1982 - K-27

1985 - K-429

1986 - K-219

2000 - Kursk

Bonus point for K-8 in 1970, good they didn’t have too many nuke subs before then because oh boy...

It's a good thing Soviets don’t bother to name their subs otherwise there would have been a lot of jinxed names (almost as if they knew something others didn't    )



Meanwhile in USA we had:

1963 - Thresher

1968 - Scorpion

And that was it, half century later still nothing ...



You can criticize American tanks, IFVs, airplanes, helicopters, even some surface ships or other stuff, you can most definitely criticize their AA systems and missiles but what you can't do is criticize their submarines because they are head and shoulders above others in that department

It's not even up for debate

K-27- obsolete design with relatively few failsafes. Ok Ill  give you that one
K-429- caused by crew being on leave and the sub being under repair and put into sea for an exercise regardless
K-219-freak accident, possibly caused by a US submarine colliding.

only 2 of these are due to crew incompetence.

Five from the six CCCP/Russian accidents happened with subs or with weapon systems that doesn't exist in the USA navy.

It has the same takeway, if you use the same, slightly improved 50+ years old design without basic improvement, avoid any high capability but inheritently dangerous weapons then you are safe.

Don't try new weapons, and you are safe : )

So, only thing that left is to use broomstick instead of guns, and all unintentional discharge accident can be elminated.

Singular_Transform wrote:Five from the six CCCP/Russian accidents happened with subs or with weapon systems that doesn't exist in the USA navy.

It has the same takeway, if you use the same, slightly improved 50+ years old design without basic improvement, avoid any high capability but inheritently dangerous weapons then you are safe.

Don't try new weapons, and you are safe : )

So, only thing that left is to use broomstick instead of guns, and all unintentional discharge accident can be elminated.

Yeah yeah makeup all the excuses you want.

Also what weapon systems don't we have lol? we have torps and VLS same as any Russian submarine.

You are such a liar it's funny.

Huh K-219 had nothing to do with a collision....do people on this forum not know basic history?.

K-219 was caused by a seawater leak into missile tubes which was leading to a gas build-up and an explosion was then caused when the weapons officer opened the hatch to try and vent which was a huge mistake. They didn't properly investigate.

Also there is no proof of that US collision theory with another sub but hey doesn't stop you guys from carrying on that myth.

Shkval supercavitating torpedo, Oniks supersonic missile, etc.
No US equivalents.

lancelot wrote:Shkval supercavitating torpedo, Oniks supersonic missile, etc.
No US equivalents.

None of the said accidents took place with those....

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

lancelot wrote:Shkval supercavitating torpedo, Oniks supersonic missile, etc.
No US equivalents.

None of the said accidents took place with those....

You were foolishly bragging that US has equivalents of all Russian naval weapon systems, you've been proven wrong. You've been BUSTED. American LIAR

Are we not going to count deaths outside the subs?

Japanese fishermen and damaged cargo ships?