Project 885: Yasen class #2

Cheers to you, AMCXXL.  
What we wrote about earlier did not come true.
* The degree of Russian idiocy goes so far that no keel has been laid for a single new 885M submarine for more than 3 years. I don't care that SMO lasts because priorities must not be abolished. The Russians spend money needlessly on small missile wrecks of projects 21631 and 22800, project 11711, on patrol boats 22160, etc., while they are not building what they should be building.
Things with the construction of 885M submarines are realistically disastrous.
* Submarine K-564 "Arkhangelsk" has been under construction since July 27, 2014 and has not yet been launched, that is 9 years, 3 months and 12 days.
Bro, we can forget Russian fairy tales about 20 d0 24 SSN/SSGN submarines. The existing 971M and 949AM are not yet operational, while the construction of new ones is going badly. Barely 10 SSN/SSGN submarines are operational - horror.
* The Russian Navy is a a hunting society and not a serious military formation and that's the mildest thing I can say. It all boils down to SSBN submarines and that's about it.

To be honest with you I'm not wasting my time with the Russians on this issue anymore and I've completely turned to the PLA Navy..

Podlodka77 wrote:Cheers to you, AMCXXL.  
What we wrote about earlier did not come true.
* The degree of Russian idiocy goes so far that no keel has been laid for a single new 885M submarine for more than 3 years. I don't care that SMO lasts because priorities must not be abolished. The Russians spend money needlessly on small missile wrecks of projects 21631 and 22800, project 11711, on patrol boats 22160, etc., while they are not building what they should be building.
Things with the construction of 885M submarines are realistically disastrous.
* Submarine K-564 "Arkhangelsk" has been under construction since July 27, 2014 and has not yet been launched, that is 9 years, 3 months and 12 days.
Bro, we can forget Russian fairy tales about 20 d0 24 SSN/SSGN submarines. The existing 971M and 949AM are not yet operational, while the construction of new ones is going badly. Barely 10 SSN/SSGN submarines are operational - horror.
* The Russian Navy is a a hunting society and not a serious military formation and that's the mildest thing I can say. It all boils down to SSBN submarines and that's about it.

To be honest with you I'm not wasting my time with the Russians on this issue anymore and I've completely turned to the PLA Navy..

2 pr.885M and 2 pr.955A will be laid next year, this was announced last year

this year the 8th borey will be launched, this is the priority

Russia is at war with USA in Ukraine, attack submarines are not useful rigth now, only the sytrategic submarines as deterrance

To ARROW...

Sorry, my friend, but Russia has long been overrun in this component as well.
We currently have 22 Virginias and 3 885/885M...
The submarine has always been the most mysterious vessel and probably the weapon system in general. I can't claim that the Virginia is better or worse than the 885M or vice versa nor do any of us know what the actual noise level of one of those subs is. Will a propeller or a pump-jet perform better. We cannot know that. Sonar is a separate story, and none of us have American or Russian sonar specs. That's one thing, and it's very important, whose torpedoes would perform better in case they were "found" under water. In essence, we come to the most important - the number of SSGN submarines.


Would you go with 3 T-14 tanks against 22 T-72B3 tanks ?

As I already said here I think the Project 885M is only going to be used as an Oscar replacement. For this it won't be necessary to build it in large numbers.

To compete with the Virginia attack subs will require Russia to design a new cheaper mass production variant i.e. the Laika.

I also would not discount the idea that after Amur Shipyard finishes building the corvettes in like 3 years time they could convert it back into building nuclear attack subs again.

In 3 years time Sevmash will also likely have launched all the Borei-A submarines currently under construction. With only two Borei-A submarines still being under construction by then. I expect them to build 12 Borei submarines total similar to the number of Columbia class submarines the US wants to build.

Project 885M was designed at a time when Sevmash had not yet been upgraded to do large block construction. So we will see a new submarine design that takes advantage of the new construction capabilities. Which include working with titanium and composites.

lancelot wrote:

To compete with the Virginia attack subs will require Russia to design a new cheaper mass production variant i.e. the Laika.

The last Virginia block has 140 meters length, 10 meters more than Yasen-M

"To compete" with the number of missiles carried you need a larger submarine, not smaller

As I explained before, the section and inner structure of the submarines of 3rd and 4th generation is about the same, the only true difference is the length

less length, less missile launchers, this is the equation

Akula about 110-113 meters, Yasen-M 130 meters, the diference is the total number or weapons, the rest of the submarine cannot be very different

there are not "cheaper submarines" , less money, less systems and capacity.

next to Yasen-M is a uograded Yasen II or something like that
you only need to built one per year in long term.

When the US dollar tanks those 33 US SSNs are going to be sitting in port with no money to fund maintenance let alone actually sail them anywhere.

The Soviet Union built about 50,000 tanks for the cold war and when it ended they went into storage... it was really not money well spent.

Sure you can claim they are there now they need them but really their production of new tanks and upgrades of old tanks is just fine... if it turns out Russian troops and HATO troops are fighting thousands of tanks in storage are not going to make any difference.

Frankly I agree. They need a cheaper and smaller sub. You don't need 40 VLS on all of your subs. 8 is enough for a sub whose main duty will be hunting other subs and attacking shipping lines.

10 yasen is enough as SSGN. If they want more missile just convert 2 Borei for that purpose.

Kilo are very good but lack nuclear endurence for long range patroling.

Dear God, finally......  


November 17, 23:14
The Arkhangelsk nuclear submarine may be removed from the boathouse in the second half of November
According to the source, the decision on the exact date will be made by the Main Headquarters of the Navy

MOSCOW, November 18. /TASS/. Sevmash shipbuilders will remove the Project 885M nuclear submarine "Arkhangelsk" code "Yasen-M" from the boathouse and launch it in the second half of November. A source close to the military department reported this to TASS.

“The fourth hull of Project 885M, the Arkhangelsk nuclear submarine, is expected to be launched in the second half of November. The decision on the exact date will be made by the Main Headquarters of the Navy,” he noted.

TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.

Currently, Sevmash is building six Project 885M nuclear submarines. The nuclear submarines "Severodvinsk", "Kazan", "Novosibirsk" of projects 885/885M were transferred to the fleet. The third hull of Project 885M, the Krasnoyarsk nuclear submarine, is undergoing state tests, within the framework of which it recently launched Kalibr-PL and Oniks missiles.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19318141

To Arrow....

So what I wrote in the second section is confirmed today, which is that the Russians and Sevmash is most capable in building nuclear submarines.
Unfortunately, the number of attack submarines under construction is not yet sufficient.
If this year the fleet receives K-571 "Novosibirsk" and K-554 "Imperator Alkesandr III"", then the number of active submarines will reach 12 and the total number of submarines built will be 14; K-XXX "Knayz Pozharskiy" and K-564 "Arkhangelsk" should be launched.
All submarines up to number 17 should be operational by the end of 2027 at the latest.


2010's

1. K-535 "Yuri Dolgorukiy" (955), active from 10.01.2013 ; Northern fleet
2. K-550 "Alexander Nevsky" (955), active from 23.12.2013; Pacific fleet
3. K-560 "Severodvinsk" (885), active from 17.06.2014; Northern
4. K-551 "Vladimir Monomakh" (955), active from 19.12.2014; Pacific

2020's

5. K-552 "Knyaz Vladimir" (955A), active from 12.06.2020; NF
6, K-561 "Kazan" (885M), active 05.05.2021; NF
7. K-552 "Knyaz Oleg" (955A), active from 21.12.2021; PF
8. K-573 "Novosibirsk" (885M); active from 21.12.2021; PF
9. K-329 "Belgorod" (09852), active from 08.07.2022;  currently in NF
10. K-553 "Generalissimus Suvorov" (955A), active from 29.12.2022; PF
11. K-571 "Krasnoyarsk" (885M), will enter active service soon; PF
12. K-554 "Imperator Alexander III" (955A); will enter active service soon; PF
13. K-564 "Arkhangelsk" (885M); under construction since March 19, 2015; it should be launched by the end of November 2023, NF
14. K-XXX "Knyaz Pozharskiy" (955A); under construction since December 23, 2016; it should be launched soon in 2023; NF

15. Project 09851 "Khabarovsk"; under construction since July 19, 2014; there is no info but maybe she is also in line for launch..
16. K-XXX "Perm" (885M), UC since 29.06.2016,
17. K-XXX "Ulyanovsk" (???) UC since 27.07.2017,
18. K-XXX "Voronezh" (885M); UC since 20.07.2020,
19. K-XXX "Vladivostok" (885M); UC since 20.07.2020,
20. K-XXX "Knayz Potemkin (955A); UC since 23.08.2021,
21. K-XXX "Dmitry Donskoy" (955A); UC since 23.08.2021
22, 23, 24, 25; ......

I don't see any other way to preserve the construction and quality of the workforce in Sevmash than to lay additional keels.
It is likely that the Russians will go with the system of one Borei-A and one Yasen-M next year, and again in 2025. I find it hard to believe that they will lay keels for 4 submarines in one year.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19322805

The source said that the number of nuclear submarines of the Yasen family will be increased to 12

Three more submarines are expected to be laid down in the near future.

MOSCOW, November 19. /TASS/. The number of nuclear submarines (NPS) of the Yasen family of projects 885, 885M and 885MA will be increased to 12, and the laying of 3 more submarines is expected. A source close to the Russian Navy reported this to TASS.

“In the near future, the keel of three nuclear submarines of the Yasen family is expected. Taking into account the submarines of this project that have already been built and those under construction, it is planned that the Northern and Pacific fleets will have six such submarines each,” he said.

TASS does not have official confirmation of this information. Currently, the Russian Navy operates three nuclear submarines of the Yasen/Yasen-M family - Severodvinsk, Kazan and Novosibirsk. The fourth hull of the family, the nuclear submarine Krasnoyarsk, is at the final stage of state testing. It is expected that it will be transferred to the Navy before the end of the year.

Podlodka77 wrote:To Arrow....
17. K-XXX "Ulyanovsk" (???) UC since 27.07.2017,
.

I wonder if the Ulyanovsk is one of the pr.885MA referred to in the article?

Then the launch of a second submarine of this type, twin to the Ulyanovsk, would be prepared , giving the total of 10 Yasen SSGN and 2 "Poseidon" carriers

To AMCXXL....

So again new and good news for Yasen-M submarines... Thank you for the great news!
That 885MA is something new, my friend, and something that has not been released to the public before..
I don't know if it will be as you wrote; 10 as SSGN and 2 as SMNS (special mission nuclear submarine)...
Maybe you are right, time will tell..
But the question remains; then why did they build the 09851 "Khabarovsk" project ?

Anyway, 12 submarines are two re-armed submarine brigades. As things stand, at least two more, and maybe three, remain to be rearmed. And that's where we come to smaller submarines, very likely.
I think that a submarine with a full displacement of up to 8000 to 9000 tons would be an excellent solution.
The Russians didn't forget about their best shipyard - Sevmash...
Very very very good news....

Arrow wrote:So the 885AM is a special version for unusual tasks? Is another modernization of the 885M?

Rumour is that Ulyanovsk is being built to a modified 885M design as a Poseidon carrier.  The acknowledgement of the 885AM existance is the closest we have come to confirmation, and it looks like the Navy wants a 2nd such boat.  Reading between the lines it seems that the Navy is satisfied that Poseidon is working as expected

It is likely that the Russians will go with the system of one Borei-A and one Yasen-M next year, and again in 2025. I find it hard to believe that they will lay keels for 4 submarines in one year. wrote:

There was some talk of an additional shipyard in the far east (Somewhere around Vladivostok) who's main job would be to build supercarriers and large submarines...So we might see such a thing as 4 subs per year. Laid that is, not completed. That would need a Chinese workforce..

I never really had an interest for the Russian Navy but the limit of how much nuclear warhead zircons a Yasen can carry is how many ships will get destroyed in a 1000km radius if fired from underwater which can destroy multiple carrier strike groups. This is why I had a feeling at 1st on why the Zmeevik missile program was going to be cancelled. But to make the Yasen class more deadly is.

1. Make more GEO satellites with the SAR resolution capabilities to identify carriers, frigates, destroyers, etc. They offer giant footprint coverage of the earth to identify more ships than LEO satellites with a smaller footprint coverage. And their altitudes are high enough to avoid missile defense systems targeting them compared to LEOs flying at lower altitudes. Keep in mind the U.S. and Russia can already use satellite resolution to target and hit mobile ships with their missiles.

2. The HARMONY project is only limited in the arctic sea, but it would be a great idea to put nuclear powered SONAR arrays in the atlantic and pacific ocean for Yasen class subs to get an advantage in torpedo targeting adversary submarines with their longest-range torpedoes and it would notify Russia's naval HQ of decisions to make prior to engaging any kind of combat.

I never really care for ships in the Russian Navy section only if they get brand new spanking S-400Fs and S-500Fs.

When does Arkhangelsk acceptance trials? Next year?

The official flag-raising ceremony on two nuclear-powered missile carriers took place today in Severodvinsk:
- "Imperator Aleksander III" Borey-A class SSBN; (7º Borey SSBN)
- "Krasnoyarsk" Yasen-M class SSGN; (4º Yasen SSGN)

In one pic you can see Adm. Nakhimov in the background.

rogue Russian submarine!!

What morons.
This is called "Freedom of Navigation", you suc...rs.