Su-35S: News #2

sepheronx wrote:Dunno how those  experts get such an idea when TR1 posted a video that made rounds showing it detecting targets close to 400km. Air targets at that.

They use this video to claim that the Irbis can only track targets at 100 km away.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cieLN4_tn0A&t=92s&pp=2AFckAIB

If I'm not wrong range is the arrow on the left. So some 170km. The 214 number is something like time before impact.

The R-37M is a mach 5 plus missile so 214 seconds at mach 5 means the target interception point is 344km away.

Goid missile but the targets are su-27, su-24 and mig-29 from soviet union with outdated RWR and jammers. Against a more modern fighter, long range shots will be far less lucky.

A very high speed long range missile is hard to deal with because you might get scanned and tracked but you could be tracked by anything at all... it could be in the opposite direction of the aircraft launching the missile.

An active radar homing missile does not require the target to be illuminated at all so detection and a short period of tracking to see where you are and where you are going and how fast. The missile can be launched and it will head to an intercept point where your aircraft is going to be when it arrives in a couple of minutes. The platform that detected you can scan a minute later to see where you are and what you are doing and refine the intercept point, which the missile will adjust to but wont reveal its presence so the target has no idea what is on its way.

Long range missiles are lofted to high altitude and dive on the target... they might light up their radars to find the target at 15km range, and moving at about 1.6km/s that gives you 10 seconds to do something about it. It will have home on jam capacity and will be coming down from a fairly steep dive so you will be not very stealthy no matter what type of aircraft you are.

You can easily outrun a long range missile if launch at max range by going away from it but you need to know it was launched ir just go hide behind a mountain.

You wont know it is coming till it is diving down on your estimated position... you will likely have 10 seconds or less warning from its active radar signals.

Coming down from high angle unless you fly into a tunnel or a cave a mountain is not going to help you.

Jamming should also make tracking disruptive.

Jamming gives it a cue to where you are.

That's why they need to quickly introduce R-77M which has less range but is more agile in medium/short distances fights than r-37M.

Which missiles they have in service is secret... I would be very surprised if they have not already tested R-77Ms, and in fact I would be rather surprised if they did not have a scramjet powered R-77 close to testing stage... though they might not want to risk compromising the design while the west is still struggling with a working scramjet design. The R-37 certainly fills the gap.

It is not like the R-33, which was designed to hit large aircraft that cannot manouver... like bombers and cruise missile carriers as well as JSTARS and recon platforms as well as inflight refuelling aircraft and troop transports.

The R-37 can engage targets pulling 8g... mainly through its directed fragmentation warhead that targets the aircraft in the last milisecond.

An IIR version of r-37M with the same datalink as the radar version would be good against stealthy targets or active jamming aircraft. Could also be cheaper as ARH is quite expensive.

Very much agree and I suspect the replacement Izd 815 will be a fully multiband weapon with IIR and LLLTV seeker with a passive and active radar sensor to make evasion and defeat of the missile rather complicated.

More modern data processor and digital signal processor along with other electronics and further refining of search and track algorithms would certainly get better resolution and possibility of tracking and engaging more targets simultaneously.

One of the problems with the early model Zaslon was processing power because the PESA had an enormous volume of airspace it could scan, it needed to cover an enormous volume of airspace. Upgrades to the Zaslon-M were mostly electronic processing improvement that doubled the volume and increased the number of targets that could be detected and tracked. Further upgrades and of course more memory would allow more information to be processed and stored and used, further increasing performance without any hardware changes to the transmit and receive elements. Of course further improvements to those components will also increase accuracy and resolution as well.

It will likely also have new operating modes added including ground mapping to higher resolutions too.

The original R-37 dates back to the 80's and by then it was able to destroy air targets 300 km away.

The target was detected and tracked by another platform... an Su-30 of the PVO, with target information transmitted to the MiG-31 that launched the missile. The distance travelled by the missile to hit the target was 300km.

To reach 400km it does need to be launched at mach 2.5 and at altitudes of 18km, which means by MiG-31 really, but the Su-35 and other 4++ gen fighters can launch to probably 250-300km depending on height and speed at launch.

They use this video to claim that the Irbis can only track targets at 100 km away.

That is from 12 years ago when the only long range missile the Su-35 was carrying was the R-77 which is claimed to have a max range of 100km and a normal launch range of about 80km against a manouvering target.

Hahaha... mop required in isle three... that man needs new undies.

Looks like the western fighter pilot was fixated on the large aircraft and forgot his situational awareness and watching out for the escorts.

The Sukhoi was far too agile and agressive while USAF`s top gun can barely handle balloons. It was a mismatch.

Tracking range is something like 80% of detection range. And it quite understandable because you focus your beam on the target.

Irbis has track while scan so it doesn't really track, it will update the missile system with information coming from the scan. The r-77/37 have an active homing warhead so it's enough to bring it near the target and give the course and position of the target so that when it starts its own radar it finds it.

Depends on the situation... the aircraft launching the missile might never see the target... an active radar homing missile needs coordinates of where the target will be and pretty much no other information.

A launched ARH missile will take x amount of time to reach the intercept point so extending the tracking path of the target by x amount of seconds will give you the intercept point assuming the target does not manouver or change speed or altitude or direction.

Your initial track of a target flying straight and level on it way somewhere might be enough for the ARH missile you launch to close and get a lock and shoot it down.

The ARH missile has its own radar that can lock targets 10-15km away so it is not going to fly all the way to the intercept point and then turn on its radar, it is going to fly to the intercept point but turn its radar on maybe 10 seconds short of the intercept point so it can scan and find the target... when it finds the target and locks, it then just tracks the target to impact. If the target deviates from its flight path the launch platform or other platform tracking the target (occasional scans, not continuous scanning that would arouse attention), and that information will be passed to the launch aircraft that will likely calculate the new flight path of the target to determine if the target would still be in the field of view of the missiles radar when it starts scanning. Minor changes wont matter but ideally you want the target to be right in the centre of the missiles field of view when it starts scanning for the target.

If the target is at the extreme edge or outside the seeker range then the target might escape or be able to evade the missile because a hard turn at the end of a long flight might bleed off too much speed and the missile might just stall.

Tiny control surfaces are good for low drag but don't allow high g turns or for lift at lower speeds...

Before, your RWR would notice that a radar scan you every 4 or 5 seconds so it's scaning and then it will detect a constant radar beam so it tracking which means a missile was probably launched and very likely is a semi active r-27 (could also be used for a r-77 for better Pk).

The size and range of the R-27 and also its modularity with different seekers and rocket motors... I always thought it would be an interesting option to be converted into an air to surface missile for anti radiation roles... maybe anti drone operator, or anti Gepard or anti battlefield radar roles.

The 40kg warhead is probably a bit big for hitting drone operators, but would be good against all the new air defence vehicles that HATO countries are going to be scrambling to buy from South Korea and other countries...

They probably have large numbers of R-27s in stock and it makes sense to use them, but using them to warn aircraft they are under attack is not a good idea.

The IR guided versions use the same seeker as fitted to the R-73 so it should be pretty good really.

You can hear the f16 pilot yell a muffled "holy f!@#".

Followed by a Jesus! by the sounds of things...

Financial woes, lowering of flight time, very poor leadership, again the woke idiocy, and many other reasons besides these. Not good.

The costs of new aircraft like Rafale and F-35, you would think they would look after good pilots, but it seems more and more often that pilots with white skin and a penis are disadvantaged or even excluded for promotion and continued service...

Because we all know that Harris as President is going to show President Putin that America will let anyone lead them because they are strong... America is here and it is Queer, girlfriend!!!!

The IOC has already banned him from the next Olympic games....

Where are the two cameras filming this? Tracking and zooming too.

DCS World apparently.

As the guy in the video pointed out that roll would have taken him across the nose of the F-16 but he added a push down on the stick to avoid crossing close in front of the aircraft. It was a fully controlled and measured manouver.

Not a big deal really.

Very amusing that the F-16 pilot was goal focused and was staring at the Bear without thinking about the escort, which is why he got surprised like that.