New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

I never flew a plane before. But if it's anything like flight sim, a side stick would be awkward to pilot. I always have my stick in the center (yeah, picture that).

Funny guys

F-35A is fully 9 g capable, to be fair.

Designed & built for 9G yes.
Maybe things have changed since I last paid attention & maybe it was some intentional dis-info but last I heard they'd had a software version which enabled enough AoA to pull 9G, immediately found that the buffeting was so bad pilots eyes couldn't focus -> rolled max AoA back to effectively 7G limit & no plans to spend limited software development time on trying to mitigate the buffeting.

(by unifying the elements of the airframe, cockpit, on-board systems and engine)

Was this the official quote or an editorial addition?
I'm kinda hoping to see a direct quote confirming they've re-used vertical tails & main wings.

Comparison of the size of the Su-75 and Su-57

Well, that prototype has surely aroused the intersts and reassured the middle eastern partner that should become the first buyer of the finished product and will surely find several others as soon as the program will reach phase 3 testing and systems integration.

Anyhow is important to repeat that ,as already said previously, this project from Сухой , beyond the key open architecture, very low cost-for-flight-hour and possible robotization, has been markedly optimized for air superiority, area interdiction and OCA and DCA roles.

Achievement of threshold kinematic capabilities -particularly in relation to low wing load, speed and manoeuvrability at high speed regimes and altitudes- in facts has been put as central requirements in the selection of the aerodynamic layout.



While this choice will surely "repay" in terms of efficiency and mission's economy for majority of air superiority (except for the defeat of some future air threats) and defensive air interdiction roles in comparison with ,at example, Су-57 (allowing to engage more enemy aircraft/UAVs targets contemporaneously over a larger defended area) this aircraft will instead still remain significantly less profitable than the latter in long range interception and strike missions in big theatre of operations or against very advanced opponents.

In facts in order to deliver, at example, 4 Гром over one or two targets at 2000 km of distance you must prepare and arm two ЛТС and one Ил-78, the same mission will be completed by a single Су-57 in signficantly less time, at lower cost, and with way greater probability of success; same is true for long range interception and interdiction missions.

From this derive that nations with huge land mass, placed in theatre of operations characterized by great distances and/or near to very advanced opponents will be intersted in this aircraft only if inserted in a classical Hi-Lo Air Force composition.

The logic behind Russians sticking to center sticks is for dual hand operation in case the pilot needs to use his right hand for other controls. But this logic aside, right stick arrangement would, I guess, be more ergonomic because....you have your hands at your sides. However I am not a games man and would not insist on this opinion.

Other vehicles, such as construction machinery are built with side gyrosticks. Maybe a center stick arrangement is a relic in aviation that hangs on due to operational familiarity and will fade away once most cockpit functions are automated and managed with throttle and stick controls.

F-16 was one of the first to appear with a sidestick. But this is not restricted to military aviation. Airbus for instance took a leap and ditched the yoke in its airliners a while back while Boeing still hangs on it stating pilot familiarity. But more pilots are now reporting a stick control is more intuitive. Good thing UAC went with the stick for SSJ-100 and MS-21. Don't be too cross if someday Russian fighters appear with side sticks. For now the center arrangement seems to make more sense to them.

New Checkmate photos

And don't even start with STOVL, this Sukhoi jet will be converted to STOVL long before MiG even comes up with a CGI render

The only vertical take off jets they will make will be paid for by UAE or some other foriegn country and I rather suspect the added cost and risk will make them decide not to bother.

Also if they really want to have those idiotic aircraft carriers they keep fantasizing about they will need this airplane

They will never go for a single engined carrier fighter... even the Ka-52K has two engines...

I mean if they are to get people interested in buying it the customer has to know what he is paying for? If that is not going to be disclosed to them or public I don't expect much sales or even contracts.

If you are a real customer I rather suspect any feature you are dead set on they could add, but you would be paying for it...

And in real life it's falled attempt at heavy fighter especially compared to Su-35 and only marginally less expensive to operate at a huge performance disadvantage

It would not exist if it was only marginally less expensive to operate.

To say nothing of comparing operating costs to actual light fighters

The F-35 is supposed to be a light fighter... single engine and everything... not cheap at all.

Even the F-16 is not cheap.... except in comparison with the F-35 of course...

Oh yeah, just like they "need" BMPT?

They thought about it for quite some time and then decided they would have a use for it... including after testing it in Syria.

Same with Mi-35 but hopefully that dog will soon be put to sleep especially after yesterday

Both the Mi-35 and BMPT have unique features and capabilities no other platforms have... which western helicopter gunship can carry troops?

It is an idea special forces helo, or aircraft for recovering downed aircrew.

Su-30 was export oriented and look at it now

Su-30 and Su-30M were never intended for export and were fully combat capable Su-27UBs and were being used by the PVO for use as a command fighter where ground based radar coverage was a bit thin so it was the ground control van that would operate with a group of other fighters using its superior radar performance to find targets.

Regardless of it being a privately funded development much of what you want to know is classified and will probably remain so for years.

Not so much classified, as personalised to each customer, so if you wanted this or that then your version might have this or that... but you might have to pay for it. We really don't know how it would work but I doubt all the customers would get together and flesh out the stuff they want and the stuff they don't want and work out who wants to pay extra for some things and who will pay for others.

They will likely display the base model cheap version but one country might demand full 3D TVC engines, and another might demand an internal cannon... which adds weight and maintenance and complexity in the design... but they might want it anyway.

Another country might demand four weapon hardpoints on each wing and external hard points on the belly bay doors for lighter weapons... and also wing tip mounts for pods or a launch rail when stealth is no longer critical.

We have no idea who the real prospects are but we can be pretty certain that NDAs are in place protecting any data that is released to authorised receivers. They will release as much data as is needed to get sales but only on a need to know basis.

They will have a year or more to talk about what features need to be added to the basic design before things start getting set in stone, but before they even know who all their customers are and what they want then they won't have a complete picture of what this aircraft will be exactly.

Lots of changes and lots of increased capabilities are going to drive up purchase and operational costs... so those who make demands might find they pay a lot more... but I suspect they would be very hard pressed to get the price to anywhere near the F-35 or F-16 or F-15 levels.

Imagine if the USAF made an offer to licence produce some in the US.... why not...

If the export price of Checkmate is $10 Million cheaper than the export MiG-35 (based on the price of MiG-29M's sold to Egypt @$40M each), that'll put a massive dent in the MiG-35's export prospects, even if it takes another 5 years for the Su-75 to be ready.

I rather suspect Checkmates operational costs will be higher simply because it is a stealth aircraft, and details are critical for stealth aircraft to remain stealthy.

And as I said the MiG model we have been shown looks like a lead in fighter trainer design.... it might be 5 million dollars an aircraft cheaper than checkmate.

I think this is kinda silly. The GSH-30 used in most Russian planes is incredibly light at 101lbs. Seems crazy to eliminate such a capability for such a tiny weight loss.

Not just weight but also maintenance issues/costs.

I agree that the high end of the air superiority is for the Su-57, but a light fighter is normally considered to be nimble and mainly focused in A2A. Strike role is more challenging, and getting a bay like that of the LTS in a single engine plane is quite hard.

Traditionally it is the big aircraft that is the "fighter" that takes air superiority, while the light fighter is the swing fighter operating over the front line in a swing fighter role... so fighter and bomb truck mostly.

So why is MiG begging for scraps with those hilarious scale models then?

OK if you are going to be full of shit then so will I.

MiG is not begging for anything , they clearly have the LMFS contract and are working on their now classified designs in the shadows, while the spotlight hides what they are doing and shines on Sukhoi flogging off a scaled down Su-57 with one engine.

The Sukhoi plane seems acceptable, but wont go anywhere if no countries buy it, and the US has already proven they can't afford an all stealth aircraft fleet... they are going to need to build a lot of these planes to make them worth while.

I mean if they are so busy with MiG-41 why all the panhandling?

What does that even mean?

They are doing what they are supposed to be doing they have their light fighter, carrier fighter and light drone and they are likely building them to the VKS specs they have been given.

If anyone is desperate it is Sukhoi rolling a test model around an airfield with no intention of it flying... its revelation was no accident... some bureaucrat didn't leave any secret papers at some bus stop... this was intentionally displayed where they knew it would be seen for publicity... hey guess what... they are getting better at that too...

More like they are about to f*ck up MiG-41 as well and Sukhoi will be called in to clean up their shit yet again

Actually the MiG-31 is proof they know what they are doing... I am sure Sukhoi would have been claiming the Su-57 or a new variant of it could do that job too, but clearly not.

"You don't f*ck with the eagles unless you know how to fly" - Brother Bluto

Excellent warning for rabbits... as a human being eagles don't **** with me... I am sure they would be delicious.

They couldn't even complete LMFS, there's no way they can handle MiG-41, at best they will slap MiG label on Sukhoi interceptor as a goodbye gesture and pull the plug

They have only just started on the LMFS programme, which has been on hold until the PAK FA entered serial production, which only happened rather recently.

Agreed, Slyusar said in the interview that this is a plane for "most missions", that is, the absolute highest end of air superiority is still covered by the Su-57 but the new plane allows to satisfy the rest of the needs with significantly lower costs, specially if the manned and unmanned versions start working together and the savings are not only due to the airframe but also to the pilots' training.

Russia is already introducing the single engined S-70... why introduce this as well?

The logic behind Russians sticking to center sticks is for dual hand operation in case the pilot needs to use his right hand for other controls. But this logic aside, right stick arrangement would, I guess, be more ergonomic because....you have your hands at your sides. However I am not a games man and would not insist on this opinion.

The side mounted stick is suggested to be superior because you can place rests and supports right up to the stick so even when pulling high g your arm is resting directly on support so you just need to use your wrist to move your hand rather than using your whole arm to keep your hand on the stick.

Having said that a side stick can only be used by one hand which can get tired over time... having a centre stick you can swap between hands to maintain control for much longer periods and also use both hands to apply more force faster via the stick to manouver better or faster as even the fixed sticks determine the force applied to them to determine the rate of turn the pilot is demanding... being able to use two hands should allow max rate turns without the pilot needing to be a weightlifter.

Don't be too cross if someday Russian fighters appear with side sticks.

The Su-37 with thrust vectoring engines had a side stick and a centre stick and the pilot could use either.

When the aircraft is being flung around the sky sometimes having things to hold on to is a good thing.

BTW the images shown of the rear of the aircraft compared with the rear of the Su-57 suggest there is enough space either side of the engine nozzle to allow TVC engine nozzle deflections of 15 degrees in any direction... which should be plenty... but of course roll control will remain an issue in a super stall where no airflow over the conventional control surfaces will be an issue, though the potential paddles either side of the engine might still generate roll effects with the ram airflow through between the tail surfaces.

Hole wrote:...
The western and southern MD´s could need a few of these planes. Time to ressurect a few of the regiments that were axed in 2010/12.

Not really

Western and Southern MD need full Su-57 package because those are potential hotspots

It's Center and Pacific that should get smaller ones, those places are pretty quiet and they are not hurting for Su-57 because this new jet can easily deal with 90% of potential issues

Maybe they could park a squadron of Su-57s in Vladivostok or Kamchatka just in case but all other Su-57s should go to Western and Southern MDs

Sukhoi LTS plus all the 4 gens can handle Center and Pacific no problem

Also money saved from using LTS can be redirected into buying more Su-57s

GarryB wrote:They will never go for a single engined carrier fighter... even the Ka-52K has two engines......

Wow, a helicopter has two engines? Mind blown...

It applies so hard on fixed wing aircraft

Which attack helicopter made after Vietnam had one engine?

GarryB wrote:It would not exist if it was only marginally less expensive to operate....

MiG-35 barely exists

And only reason it does is because VKS was badgered into buying token amount

Had it actually been cheaper to operate maybe it would have been bought in two token amounts instead of just one

MiG is circling the drain, now it's either getting MiG-41 done or they get flushed

Tick tock...

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:...
The western and southern MD´s could need a few of these planes. Time to ressurect a few of the regiments that were axed in 2010/12.

Not really

Western and Southern MD need full Su-57 package because those are potential hotspots

It's Center and Pacific that should get smaller ones, those places are pretty quiet and they are not hurting for Su-57 because this new jet can easily deal with 90% of potential issues

Maybe they could park a squadron of Su-57s in Vladivostok or Kamchatka just in case but all other Su-57s should go to Western and Southern MDs

Sukhoi LTS plus all the 4 gens can handle Center and Pacific no problem

Also money saved from using LTS can be redirected into buying more Su-57s

This is not the way Russia does things: there is not any alternative between the Su-57 and the Shah Mat.
One is tasked with a precise role and the other with another (or better many of them), so they would complement one another in practically every MD.
Also because RuAF is actually in the very Enviable position of having just a little number of planes that are effectively obsolete and/or worn up by use.

Central MD is quite a peculiar one as it was equipped with mainly Foxhound and Fencer /Fullback but not Flankers.
Now retirement of US and Nato forces from Afghanistan would put this once quite quiet Command in the crossfire again, so I'll definitively think their own structure and equipment would surely undergo radical changes in near future.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Why would you stick these things on a carrier? May has well navalize the SU-57 then it would perform far better.

Two times better to be more precise.

This plane is 1/2 of a su-57 in every aspect.

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:...
The western and southern MD´s could need a few of these planes. Time to ressurect a few of the regiments that were axed in 2010/12.

Not really

Western and Southern MD need full Su-57 package because those are potential hotspots

It's Center and Pacific that should get smaller ones, those places are pretty quiet and they are not hurting for Su-57 because this new jet can easily deal with 90% of potential issues

Maybe they could park a squadron of Su-57s in Vladivostok or Kamchatka just in case but all other Su-57s should go to Western and Southern MDs

Sukhoi LTS plus all the 4 gens can handle Center and Pacific no problem

Also money saved from using LTS can be redirected into buying more Su-57s

This is not understanding about the makeup of the Air Force
there are three main directions: West (Leningrad), South (Krasnodar) and East (Jabarobsk)

Each of these directions will receive a regiment of Su-57 with a new structure (probably these regiments include the S-70)
The Su-57s will be seconded by the Su-35s, probably 2 regiments each Su-57 regiment

In the wide zone of Russia (Siberia and the extreme north) the defense is carried by the MiG-31 and in the future its replacement,
They are impenetrable areas for enemy tactical aviation, due to the great distances.

I also hope that more Su-57s will be added in the Moscow area to reinforce the Air Defense Army Corps, of the capital



This new fighter is for more restricted and forward areas.
The advanced areas (Kaliningrad, Crimean Peninsula, Kola Peninsula and Kamchatka Peninsula/ Sakhalin / Kuril) are the areas of operation of the Russian fleets.

It is not in vain that the territories where the fleets are based are those and are joint operational commands with their own Army Corps of Air Force and Air Defense (at the moment Crimea is not configured like that at 100%)

If the military reform continues in this sense and is not reversed, the logical thing would be that if this fighter is adopted by the Russian Defense Ministry it will be operated by the Navy in these vanguard areas as well as in future aircraft carriers.

That is, the VKS would operate Su-57, Su-35 and S-70 (the Su-30 as a double of the Su-35)
The navy would operate Su-30SM, Su-75 in various versions (Shipborne, unmanned, etc ...)

Then the appearance of the Su-75 in Kaliningrad, for example, would make sense.
It does not seem very reasonable to put the Su-35 there when there is already going to be a Su-30SM2 that is actually unified with the Su-35, it does not add anything new.
The same with Crimea and Sajkhalin/Kuril/kamchatka that could receive Su-75 for the Navy
If Course, in Severomorsk and Primorie will be shipborne regiments if there are new carriers

Actually in the Soviet Navy the plan was to equip all fleets with MiG-29s for this task, although only MiG-29s were received in Crimea at the end of the USSR. Precisely the MiG-29s that were in Belbek when the Ukrainian occupation ended