Exactly, it is the amount of big and expensive to operate jets, and the continuing need for keeping increasing the fleet, that is the main reason for a smaller fighter for "most of the missions" (Slyusar dixit)
Funny how the Air Force is in many ways the opposite to the Navy where the Air Force makes sense to develop and build the bigger aircraft first, and then look at scaling them down to make smaller aircraft, though not true for trainer aircraft which are also needed, while the Navy will focus on small ships and work their way up to bigger more capable ships...
When they go public with a project like this it means there is a sponsor and the design is done, at least. As anything strategic, the development of the Russian industry is not made contingent on foreign decisions.
This plane sounds like it is fully funded, and the reuse of most of the bits and pieces from the Su-57 means it should be easy to make and indeed production could reduce the costs of making Su-57s because the wings and vertical tails for instance can be made in larger numbers and the cockpit looks the same.
I rather suspect this is more about trying to get more customers involved early on... especially ones that might make other choices like Rafale or Typhoon and or course MiG-35 that might actually want a real 5th gen light fighter instead.
Even with two engines the MiG-35 is probably going to be cheaper than this new plane, but I don't see them as being in competition... much as I don't see the Su-35 being in competition for the Su-57... they compliment each other and would work better together than having a fleet of one or the other.
SU-35 was targeting the export market at first. Then the VKS became the launch customer.
Not really. The paradigm they applied was to take existing products and give them a max makeover to correct as many of their problems and issues as possible while at the same time working on the next generation from scratch replacement model that in this case could share technology later on.
The Su-35 and Su-57, Tu-160 and PAK DA, AK-12 and some rifle as yet unseen supposed to be revealed with Ratnik III about 2025, T-90 and T-14, MiG-35 and LMFS, Su-25SM3 and PAK Sha, MiG-31BM and PAK- DP, 2S19M2 and 2S35, BMP-3M and T-15/B-11/K-17, BTR-82A and T-?/B-10/K-16... etc etc etc...
In terms of fighter economics the GSK 30mm is peanuts. in money and weight.
Didn't the British stop using the cannon on their Typhoons to save money and remove it from the aircraft to save weight... remember it is not just the gun but the ammo as well...
The use of recoil to power the feed, also reduces the shock considerably. I don't think the cannon requires much maint if you leave it on the plane and seal the muzzle.
I agree with you that a light fighter needs a gun, but penny pinchers love to cut features they claim are a waste of money and for some air forces the cannon is included in that.
Pods have a history of being inaccurate and will be unstealthy.
Again, I agree, though modern pods can be developed to overcome many of their issues and even Soviet era gun pods were designed with guns that can elevate and traverse to follow targets to make them more accurate and allow some manouvers to be performed by the aircraft while firing... very interesting that these pods can be mounted facing forward or backwards.
My prediction is this plane WILL be purchased in significant numbers by the VKS and it will enter service with a built in gun.
I would agree if they do buy this plane it would have a cannon, but I want to know more about what MiG is doing before I agree they will buy it.
The focus seems to be affordable and MiG can do that... they have more experience in working in situations with a lack of funding compared with Sukhoi...
It's not DESIGNED.
The barrier between a design on paper and a model that flies and can therefore be tested is really a case of assembling pieces and shapes to make them work... they have essentially taken one engine off the Su-57 and shifted things around to create a design and they seem to have done a very good job.
My discussions with LMFS (member not plane programme) seem to have centred around his view that a single engined fighter will be more manouverable and much cheaper, but that normally included canard control surfaces, which this design clearly lacks... I rather suspect this is a simple cheap numbers bomb truck and missile truck... which is all it really needs to be. I still think a MiG-35 will have better manouver performance and will certainly be faster and the suggestion it can carry 5 missiles internally suggests the front side mounted bays carry one missile each meaning the main bay carries three missiles... which is not a huge amount, but this is a numbers plane, not an arsenal plane... its virtue is it can reload over and over again and is around in large numbers.
Designed and built are two different things
I suspect what he is trying to say is that it is designed but still a long way to go to get to serial production and service.
The Su-57 was taxiing in about 2011 with 2020-2021 to get into serial production...
The best and most optimal place for a A2G targeting system would be in a container outside because you do not want to be carrying dead weight and volume for something that is only used partly. Especially since the signature increase is a non factor if we are talkig about ranges in which you are close enough to use optics.
This will be a frontal aviation fighter so A2G will be half its job so built in systems would be rather useful. The Su-57 would use a pod because most of its time will be spent taking control of the air space. This new plane could also use that pod too no doubt though.
For the Checkmate, i suspect the reason why it is there is simply to compensate for the lack of all round IRST vision like on Su-57. So it would make sense to use it in this form Because it doubles as an IRST.
I would expect Checkmate to have DAS as well as air to ground EO systems built in.
I am going to replace polak jokes with vatnik jokes if they continue with a 300 purchase of these aircrafts without even bother replacing the radars with newer modules and dont say that they will if you dont have sources since the one provided currently was the only one on the radar information.
Russia is using AESA radar on an enormous range of systems including SAMs and ships... their lack of AESA radar on their aircraft is not a huge problem.... honestly it is hilarious that the first PESA radar on a fighter is still largely ignored, but get an AESA on a fighter plane and everyone goes apeshit and declares everything else as being useless till they get them too.
Their SAMs and AAMs have AESA radar antenna... they will get them in their fighters when they are ready.
You don't even have the guts to make a clear prediction at least
Making predictions without all the facts is blind gambling.... something I never do if I can help it.
The.head.of.Sukhoi.literally.said.this.is.a.flyable.prototype. unshaven
Either he is lying or it IS a flyable prototype.
They will start with ground structure tests like any other new aircraft.
You have to have a prototype built structurally representing the DESIGNED structure to do ground structure tests (whose purpose is to confirm the built structure conforms to the DESIGNED properties).
Some prototypes are designed for structure tests, but are generally broken in the process so are not used for flying tests... you test the structure before you fly the plane but the structural test models have the same structure as the flying models so you can see if it is safe to fly the flying models... structure test models don't need cockpits or engines...
SS deserves a permaban for being a two bit troll.
SS is allowed his own view and his own opinion, and he is not wrong that there is still a long way to go for this design... it looks very promising, but lets find out how it flys... without TVC and without canards and a tail surface it might fly like a brick for all we know... they might end up adding control surfaces to improve or modify performance, but that is up to the customer country.
It is clear from all the Sukhoi statements so far that his prototype was tested and designed with super computer models
that shaved off an enormous amount of time for engineering.
It is equally clear the F-35 was designed with super computer models too...
But whether this is a plywood mockup or a full structural prototype is something else.
Sukhoi say its a structural prototype, it looks like a structural prototype.
This is clearly the item that was towed around the runway before the airshow started... a plywood mockup would be rather dangerous to do such a think as a gust of wind could flip it over and break it...
I wonder why such delays in the Armata program? Is it about the engines?
It is not cheap and it is not urgently needed.... and I suspect there is a difference between when something can be made and when it will be made.
Armata is not a tank programme... it is an armoured vehicle programme with a modular tank base vehicle using two different layouts... engine at the back weapon system in the middle and crew in the front for the T-14 tank and engine in the front then crew and payload in the back with rear ramp doors for most everything else.
It will take a long time for them to enter service and be fully utilised... but still sooner than western equivalents of course...
Because they lied and were optimistic on the schedule.
Hahaha... people in glass houses should not throw stones...
And when you see that they plan to have flying prototypes in 2024 and say to produce it in 2027 when it is build by sukhoi alone with no financial help I don't believe they will reach their goals.
It is a funded programme... just not funded by the Russian military... this is just them fishing for more customers... whether they invest in development or just make orders for aircraft...
If they could make it alone they would finish it and then sell it.
You mean like Russia needed India to buy PAK FA so they could finish it?
I rather suspect they are revealing the aircraft now to get interest at an event where a lot of countries interested in Russian products attend... why wouldn't they?
They can't go to western air shows... Russian systems and weapons are generally banned from those...
This one wasn't requested by the air force. It was started by the company and no company in the world can finish a fighter without pre commabdes or partenership or be sure to have a contract.
It was requested by a country with the money to fund the programme, but likely if it is the UAE they are not going to buy thousands of these planes so it would be natural for them to try to find other customers to purchase the finished product rather than help with the development.
That's why they present it now. If no one is interested then they will stop it.
I doubt that. The UAE has the money to spend, and I suspect they intend to earn money by making sure most are made in the UAE for the export customers... it is them diversifying against oil dependency.
It is all based on some deeply seated Western sense of superiority by which Russians are some kind of beggars that cannot even pay for their needs themselves and need to depend on someone else's money for everything.
Made worse by the knowledge that the west is not some homogenous thing and that while the US made F-22s and F-35s.... neither is a shining success really, and there are no 5th gen fighters in Europe yet either, so the very idea that Russia might have the Su-57 and this new design... but more importantly might have them both for export to countries that the west might not want them to sell them to is probably quite upsetting so they can't take this plane at face value... an example of what the F-35 should have been... but isn't.
More importantly this sounds affordable... imagine the effect if Iran decides to buy some or North Korea... these planes are affordable.... cheaper than bigger 4th gen fighters.... the Russians have already said they are not using US dollars in transactions any more and are not going to take advice from the west as to whom they can sell their weapons to any more...
Obviously the UAE would object to Iran buying them, but then maybe they could talk about it and work something out... Pakistan could probably afford some too... the UAE would not object I suspect... Turkey might even want local production options and to buy 100 of them to replace the 100 F-35s they are not allowed to have... they could probably buy 1000 for the difference in purchase and operational costs....
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