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60 posters
Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2
Hole- Posts : 11122
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Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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That's 12 dissimilar Western fighters lost in accidents, while 14 Su-34s shot down with unknown # lost in accidents, if any, since 2/24th.Don't forget 4 F18 lost to mid air collisions , 1 F18 lost to s125, at least 5 , F16 lost to crashes or fire in 2003 alone, 1 F14, 1 F15, 1 Tornado, and assorted fixed wing and many helicopter losses
Besides, E. Ukraine terrain & weather r identical/similar to S. Russia's, & not like the ME/S Asia in & around Iraq & Afghanistan.
Conclusion: the VKS isn't doing much worse, but could still do better.
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GarryB- Posts : 40553
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That's 12 dissimilar Western fighters lost in accidents, while 14 Su-34s shot down with unknown # lost in accidents, if any, since 2/24th.
12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?
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ALAMO
ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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GarryB wrote:That's 12 dissimilar Western fighters lost in accidents, while 14 Su-34s shot down with unknown # lost in accidents, if any, since 2/24th.
12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?
This thing is getting ridiculous either.
They are figuring out the "facts" only to share them, copy them, and quote them, later on, to make it "credible".
What reminds me of physically nonexisting titles, created only to "public" materials needed for "science research" in numbers, for $.
Yesterday I saw some posts about Pantsir, and how it was lost in a big number ... here on this forum, but can't find that now.
The point is, that we have documented the loss of a FEW Pantsir.
In more than a DECADE of those being used in armed conflicts, with quite serious opponents.
Including some materials obviously faked, like quite widely known of "Syrian" piece "destroyed" with Bayraktar, where the film shows a classic vehicle observed, turning to be Omanian one after the strike.
Or lost due to an obvious negligence where those are being parked in a wide open after run out of ammo.
Each and any single case is widely documented and spread after that for propaganda purposes, but in reality, proves only an absolute rarity of the cases themselves and how much the propagandist expects the sole case to happen.
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Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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It's staring u in the face: https://www.key.aero/article/russia-has-lost-more-10-its-su-34-fullback-fleet-ukraine-ops12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/aircraft-crashes-into-residential-building-russian-city-yeysk-agencies-2022-10-17/
https://www.fontanka.ru/2022/10/17/71743127/
as of 3/22: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Russian_aircraft_losses_2
a lot more Ka-52s & Mi-28s lost than some1 here willing to accept!
https://www.businessinsider.com/whats-known-about-russian-and-ukraine-losses-in-aerial-combat-2022-9
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flamming_python- Posts : 9552
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Tsavo Lion wrote:It's staring u in the face: https://www.key.aero/article/russia-has-lost-more-10-its-su-34-fullback-fleet-ukraine-ops12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/aircraft-crashes-into-residential-building-russian-city-yeysk-agencies-2022-10-17/
https://www.fontanka.ru/2022/10/17/71743127/
as of 3/22: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Russian_aircraft_losses_2
a lot more Ka-52s & Mi-28s lost than some1 here willing to accept!
https://www.businessinsider.com/whats-known-about-russian-and-ukraine-losses-in-aerial-combat-2022-9
Is there a particular reason why you're posting Western war propaganda?
Or are you subscribing to their pretext of objectivity here?
Nonetheless, losses are heavy, with at least 49 Russian warplanes confirmed lost as of August 30, and 37 Ukrainian.
Should Soviet citizens have lapped up Nazi German reports about their casualties too?
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Mir- Posts : 3835
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Tsavo Lion wrote:
It's staring u in the face: https://www.key.aero/article/russia-has-lost-more-10-its-su-34-fullback-fleet-ukraine-ops
All the sources you quote are pro-ukr. Wikipedia's sources are mainly Oryx and Forbes.
I can almost guarantee you that Oryx has far-right (Nazi) South African roots.
Oryx is an African antelope - and SA's upgraded Puma helicopter has that name.
Spioenkop (Afrikaans) refers to a famous battle in the Anglo-Boer War.
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AMCXXL- Posts : 1018
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Su-34 crashed in the city of Yeisk after taking off from the naval air base
https://t.me/sashakots/36629
According to my information, the Su-34 of the 277th BAP still fell. So far, the main version is that birds get into the engines on takeoff. The pilots ejected. Possible casualties among local residents. There were no rockets on the plane, but there were shells for the cannon. Their detonation can be heard on video.
https://t.me/sashakots/36629
According to my information, the Su-34 of the 277th BAP still fell. So far, the main version is that birds get into the engines on takeoff. The pilots ejected. Possible casualties among local residents. There were no rockets on the plane, but there were shells for the cannon. Their detonation can be heard on video.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.
One of the engines was reported on fire.
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Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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I present multiple sources- every1 is free to make their own conllusions. Western sources r not all pro-Ukr. & many r neutral. If I was posting Russian sources on a Ukr. forum, I would be accused of posting russian propaganda there for sure.flamming_python wrote:Is there a particular reason why you're posting Western war propaganda? Or are you subscribing to their pretext of objectivity here?
most Soviets didn't have access to German media then; if they had & the NKVD found out, every1 knew what would happen to them, so they kept their thoughts to themselves.Should Soviet citizens have lapped up Nazi German reports about their casualties too?
Isos- Posts : 11603
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ALAMO wrote:Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.
They sell two engine fighter as safer than sinhle engines because they can run on one engine.
There plenty of cases of 1 engine not working of the two but that led to a crash.
That's why single engine jet like su-75 need to be bought. Twin engines are more expensive and not necessarely safer.
Hole- Posts : 11122
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Waiting for the UkroNazis to declare that the birds were specially trained to do this by the SBU aka Gestapo.ALAMO wrote:Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.
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AMCXXL- Posts : 1018
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Isos wrote:ALAMO wrote:Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.
They sell two engine fighter as safer than sinhle engines because they can run on one engine.
There plenty of cases of 1 engine not working of the two but that led to a crash.
That's why single engine jet like su-75 need to be bought. Twin engines are more expensive and not necessarely safer.
the Su-34 had just taken off and did not have enough height or speed, it lost an engine, probably because of a bird (the base is just on the seashore). there was no time to go back, the same thing happened in Syria with a Su-30
The problem with the Yeisk base is that the runway ends right on the edge of the city and has fallen on top of a block of flats. The amount of fire is due to having the fuel tank completely full
IF you had lost an engine in normal flight conditions or even had an engine hit with a Manpad, there would be no problem for landing with one single engine.
The moment of takeoff, just when leaving the runway, is the most critical moment. It is also a very large and heavy aircraft.
Last edited by AMCXXL on Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3917
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Tsavo Lion wrote:
I present multiple sources- every1 is free to make their own conllusions. Western sources r not all pro-Ukr. & many r neutral. If I was posting Russian sources on a Ukr. forum, I would be accused of posting russian propaganda there for sure.
You are posting straight propaganda, 15 su34 with no proof
We have only seen 7 at most lost , the 15 is a made up number from some source which claimed that 25% of a regiment was shot down
Again there is nothing to substantiate that number
----
The numbers will be released when the war is over,
In the end, we still can say su34 outperformed in an environment where the air defense was many times more effective than the environment in Iraq
As for crashes, the su34 is worked hard, with such few numbers , they need more planes to rotate those planes and give them less use
We have seen numerous engine flameouts and loss of power
Including the one lost over Kharkov some weeks ago
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Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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The 1st source I posted claims to have done an independent study- how would they benefit by posting inaccurate/false data?
Even after the war, as history shows, there will be conflicting reports & statistics of how many were lost, by type/whom, & by what reason.
Even after the war, as history shows, there will be conflicting reports & statistics of how many were lost, by type/whom, & by what reason.
limb- Posts : 1550
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How many Su-34Ms have been put into service? Can we hope to see them firing salvos of 12-20 LMURs?
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Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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..just 10 or fewer Su-34Ms in existence,
It WAS a good plane: https://t.me/vestiukr/51705?single
https://korrespondent.net/world/4527120-padenye-su-34-na-mnohoetazhku-v-rossyiskom-eiske-poiavylys-foto
I doubt they'll put helo missiles on it!
So, 12+1 shot down by own AD+1 recently crashed in Eisk=14; as my earlier quote was 14, this crash adds 1 more, so it's at least 15.Among the confirmed losses are at least 11 other Su-34s, though none of the previous losses were of advanced Su-34Ms. Earlier iteration Su-34s are often valued at between $35 and $40 million, making their losses similarly difficult to swallow for the increasingly cash-strapped Kremlin.
It WAS a good plane: https://t.me/vestiukr/51705?single
https://korrespondent.net/world/4527120-padenye-su-34-na-mnohoetazhku-v-rossyiskom-eiske-poiavylys-foto
I doubt they'll put helo missiles on it!
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:37 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add text, links)
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Mir- Posts : 3835
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making their losses similarly difficult to swallow for the increasingly cash-strapped Kremlin.
Yes war is an expensive business, but it has it's "up" side as well with job creation and radically increased production levels as a major stimulus to the economy. I would think as a US citizen you should know that?!
The Ruble as well as the oil price are sitting pretty so in my book this war is currently a win-win situation for the Russians whilst the EU is bleeding.
Also the Su-34 losses are not nice but the thing is they are currently being produced well. The poor people who lost their lives in the latest incident is much worse than the loss of the aircraft.
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sepheronx- Posts : 8850
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it just means more work and purchases to NAPO for more Su-34's. Its unfortunate but it happens.
The Russians are far from being cash strapped. Actually, they seem to be swimming in money and unsure how to use it all.
The Russians are far from being cash strapped. Actually, they seem to be swimming in money and unsure how to use it all.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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sepheronx wrote:it just means more work and purchases to NAPO for more Su-34's. Its unfortunate but it happens.
The Russians are far from being cash strapped. Actually, they seem to be swimming in money and unsure how to use it all.
Calling a country with a surplus budget, one of the lowest debt ratios on the planet, and owning giant reserves "cash strapped" is just direct proof of the irreversible brain dysfunction of an author.
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sepheronx- Posts : 8850
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ALAMO wrote:sepheronx wrote:it just means more work and purchases to NAPO for more Su-34's. Its unfortunate but it happens.
The Russians are far from being cash strapped. Actually, they seem to be swimming in money and unsure how to use it all.
Calling a country with a surplus budget, one of the lowest debt ratios on the planet, and owning giant reserves "cash strapped" is just direct proof of the irreversible brain dysfunction of an author.
And the members who spread it
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AMCXXL- Posts : 1018
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Su-34 crashed in Yeisk is RF-81726 Nº20
According to Aviation-Safety, the confirmed losses of the Su-34 in the Special Military Operation are 12 in total:
Other 2 claims are only ukrainian claims with no evidence
RF-81259 Nº05 28-feb 2º BAP
RF-81251 Nº31 03-mar 277º BAP
RF-81879 Nº24 05-mar 2º BAP
RF-95070 Nº06 06-mar 47º BAP
RF-95010 Nº35 14-mar 559º BAP
RF-95858 Nº43 21-apr 559º BAP
RF-95808 Nº24 25-apr 47º BAP
RF-95846 Nº16 18-may 968º IISAP / 4º TsBP
RF-95890 Nº51 17-jul 277º BAP
RF-95004 Nº20 10 sep 47º BAP
RF-81852 Nº09 02-oct 2º BAP
RF-81726 Nº20 17-oct 277º BAP
By regiment:
3 Voronezh
2 Morozovsk
3 Chelyabisnk
3 Khurba
1 Lipetsk
According to Aviation-Safety, the confirmed losses of the Su-34 in the Special Military Operation are 12 in total:
Other 2 claims are only ukrainian claims with no evidence
RF-81259 Nº05 28-feb 2º BAP
RF-81251 Nº31 03-mar 277º BAP
RF-81879 Nº24 05-mar 2º BAP
RF-95070 Nº06 06-mar 47º BAP
RF-95010 Nº35 14-mar 559º BAP
RF-95858 Nº43 21-apr 559º BAP
RF-95808 Nº24 25-apr 47º BAP
RF-95846 Nº16 18-may 968º IISAP / 4º TsBP
RF-95890 Nº51 17-jul 277º BAP
RF-95004 Nº20 10 sep 47º BAP
RF-81852 Nº09 02-oct 2º BAP
RF-81726 Nº20 17-oct 277º BAP
By regiment:
3 Voronezh
2 Morozovsk
3 Chelyabisnk
3 Khurba
1 Lipetsk
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Hole- Posts : 11122
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This just means that the next contract for the Su-34M will get bigger.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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And take a look at the dates.
Most of them lost early in war, when Ukr still had a functioning AD deployed.
Now imagine we talk a few hundreds of different weapon systems they had there that Russkie supressed&destroyed.
How NATO is going to replace them?
Will they even find 500 pieces of AD weapons in the entire NATO if stripping themselves to zero?
It didn't impress Russkies back then, so why should now?
Even if they will be able to deliver a 1/10th of the numbers Ukrs had back in Feb/March/April ... What does it change?
Most of them lost early in war, when Ukr still had a functioning AD deployed.
Now imagine we talk a few hundreds of different weapon systems they had there that Russkie supressed&destroyed.
How NATO is going to replace them?
Will they even find 500 pieces of AD weapons in the entire NATO if stripping themselves to zero?
It didn't impress Russkies back then, so why should now?
Even if they will be able to deliver a 1/10th of the numbers Ukrs had back in Feb/March/April ... What does it change?
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AMCXXL- Posts : 1018
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Hole wrote:This just means that the next contract for the Su-34M will get bigger.
Contracts have already been signed at the Armiya Forum, probably to replace the lost ones, although the number of aircraft is not known, it is probably for as many aircraft as necessary to fill the regiments
Su-34M is still no available, even is necesary build first the prototype
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4573192.html
Earlier last week, Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergei Shoigu announced the signing and presentation of a total of 36 contracts worth 522 billion rubles at the Army-2022 forum.
According to published data, known signed and awarded contracts include:
- with United Aircraft Corporation JSC - a contract was signed for the supply of Su-34 front-line bombers;
- with JSC Russian Helicopters - a contract was signed for the supply of Ka-52M combat helicopters;
- with JSC Russian Helicopters - a contract was signed for the supply of combat helicopters Mi-28NM;
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