Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

Regular wrote:Talking about support...

If what happened in Bucha is actually true then what support can you expect?

Even taking humanitarian aid is dangerous. Especially when you have RT and other journos filming your face. Who knows when Russians will decide to pull back and some nationalist will face-check you.

Wise civilians should just refugee the **** out of Ukraine, unlike infrastructure, no one gives a **** about them.

It's not true, it's the White Helmets turned up to 1000

Or what, the Russian forces were there for a month, everything was fine, they left, and then decided to shoot some people on the way out or shell the place from afar, and leave the evidence for Ukrainian forces to find and accuse them with?

Russia is calling a UN security council meeting over Bucha on Monday, and this is the right move. Let the Western powers put their money where their mouth is in regard to the accusations.

Regular wrote:

andalusia wrote:Just saw this on Yahoo news; what is Russia doing about this?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/video-appears-show-russian-attack-101026724.html

About single loss of helicopter to not very mobile MANPAD system?

Nothing. It is hard to jam them, but at the same time, it has many drawbacks and Ukraine already had tons of capable Manpads.

If you ignore the dross in the comments, there is some interesting info in there, including from a guy who has operated a Starstreak. Oh and a comment from me

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-supplied-missile-downs-russian-helicopter-in-ukraine/

There are rumors that prorussian civilians are being massacred in northern Kiev. I feel like the Russian military betrayed them by retreating. Who knows how long will buchha and gostomel be terrorized.

Also can anyone explain how Russian troops get captured?
In order to be captured either:
1. Ukrainians are making successful counterattacks
2. Attacking troops are surrendering.
Both are terrible

Lots of taken out Russian vehicles on lostarmour.info

Of course it paints a biased picture as the Ukrainians are not posting photos of the 3500+ vehicles of their own that have been destroyed per Russian MoD reports

flamming_python wrote:

It's not true, it's the White Helmets turned up to 1000

Or what, the Russian forces were there for a month, everything was fine, they left, and then decided to shoot some people on the way out or shell the place from afar, and leave the evidence for Ukrainian forces to find and accuse them with?

Russia is calling a UN security council meeting over Bucha on Monday, and this is the right move. Let the Western powers put their money where their mouth is in regard to the accusations.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say they were killed by Russians.

There are multiple reports that those killed civilians were the ones who "cooperated" with Russians as there was a round-up of civies after Ukrainians came in. Allegedly, people who organized or even received humanitarian aid were punished.

It would explain why it took 3-4 days to find bodies...

limb wrote:Also can anyone explain how Russian troops get captured?
In order to be captured either:
1. Ukrainians are making successful counterattacks
2. Attacking troops are surrendering.
Both are terrible

There were quite a few cases of that initially as I presume Russian forces were demoralized. If they're not even told where they're going until the last minute or why, and then were confronted by furious farmers at every turn, while having orders to avoid any civilian casualties at all costs, even at the risk of personal danger.
That sort of stuff is insanely demoralizing and just shows you that your command is willing to sacrifice you for some political objective.
Also there were conscripts involved in the operation.

The last case I saw though was when that party of Russian troops (I think they were some logistics unit or other support as they seemed to be missing body armour and so on) in the Kharkov region was executed with untreated leg shots.
Not going to be any more surrendering now that's for sure.

Regular wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:

It's not true, it's the White Helmets turned up to 1000

Or what, the Russian forces were there for a month, everything was fine, they left, and then decided to shoot some people on the way out or shell the place from afar, and leave the evidence for Ukrainian forces to find and accuse them with?

Russia is calling a UN security council meeting over Bucha on Monday, and this is the right move. Let the Western powers put their money where their mouth is in regard to the accusations.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say they were killed by Russians.

There are multiple reports that those killed civilians were the ones who "cooperated" with Russians as there was a round-up of civies after Ukrainians came in. Allegedly, people who organized or even received humanitarian aid were punished.

Just Nazis being Nazis according to the President of Ukraine

Regular wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

It's not true, it's the White Helmets turned up to 1000

Or what, the Russian forces were there for a month, everything was fine, they left, and then decided to shoot some people on the way out or shell the place from afar, and leave the evidence for Ukrainian forces to find and accuse them with?

Russia is calling a UN security council meeting over Bucha on Monday, and this is the right move. Let the Western powers put their money where their mouth is in regard to the accusations.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say they were killed by Russians.

There are multiple reports that those killed civilians were the ones who "cooperated" with Russians as there was a round-up of civies after Ukrainians came in. Allegedly, people who organized or even received humanitarian aid were punished.

It would explain why it took 3-4 days to find bodies...

Well yes you're right and it's just the latest betrayal, this time of co-operating civilians - in service of opaque political-military calculations. And it has just been taken advantage of in Bucha to accuse Russia of a massacre as the cherry on the cake.

Even when the US pulled out of Afghanistan in such a fit of haste, it made more effort to save the people it worked with from the coming Taliban. In Russia's case, it made offers but people didn't take the danger seriously, and Russia didn't make enough efforts to convince them that their life is on the line. Now those people are arrested or dead.

Russia has no chance of resolving the conflict on its terms with such leadership, but it's the leadership everyone is stuck with - so all there is to do is hope that mistakes are learned from and all the incompetents fired. The incompetents being the ones making up half the said military officer corps and political class. Unfortunately we don't have Stalin around to make an example out of them.

It's a mirror of the Great Patriotic War. Well really any big conflict Russia has engaged in. With the ones it won, there were typically f*ck-ups at the beginning as well.

I remember telling everyone here about how Russia never fixes anything until it steps on the garden rake.
Fire safety codes not being inspected seriously? Nah it'll be alright. And then a nightclub burns down and 80 people die. Only then, is this problem paid attention to. And it's the same pattern for everything in the country. There are only haphazard attempts to figure things out ahead of time. I was surprised that import substitution went so smoothly. At least they calculated for that one in advance.

Lesson learned I hope. No more withdrawals from anywhere where people have agreed to work with you.

flamming_python wrote:Lots of taken out Russian vehicles on lostarmour.info

Of course it paints a biased picture as the Ukrainians are not posting photos of the 3500+ vehicles of their own that have been destroyed per Russian MoD reports

Plenty of Ukrainian equipment there as well. As I said before, there's a massive backlog and it will be like in the 2014 period when destroyed tanks were ID almost a year later.

I bet even now some Ukrainian losses in Ilovaisk can be discovered by archeologists.

I think Kadyrov should take over as acting president TBH. He's not afraid to make statements, promises, threats - and see them through.

Putin is done. Launched an operation, it went wrong, turned into the biggest war since Korea. But he's not one to ever admit his mistakes. You don't even see him around, Peskov does most of the talking while Putin sometimes transmits from his bunker. He's still afraid of Covid
And where the fk is Shoigu? That guy is even worse. Virtually disappeared as soon as the war began
Kadyrov on the other hand is updating people several times a day.

We need some of that Jihadist spirit to get us through this confrontation with ze West.
I'm not a hawk or hardliner and this war is bullshit, but any more blatant weakness and incompetence and the Europeans/Americans will eat us alive while the rest of world will ditch us.

flamming_python wrote:I think Kadyrov should take over as acting president TBH. He's not afraid to make statements, promises, threats - and see them through.

Putin is done. Launched an operation, it went wrong, turned into the biggest war since Korea. But he's not one to ever admit his mistakes. You don't even see him around, Peskov does most of the talking while Putin sometimes transmits from his bunker. He's still afraid of Covid
And where the fk is Shoigu? That guy is even worse. Virtually disappeared as soon as the war began
Kadyrov on the other hand is updating people several times a day.

We need some of that Jihadist spirit to get us through this confrontation with ze West.
I'm not a hawk or hardliner and this war is bullshit, but any more blatant weakness and incompetence and the Europeans/Americans will eat us alive while the rest of world will ditch us.

If Putin fucked up, then he will go, no question. No propaganda will save his popularity. But I wouldn't make the end of the world out of it. Russia won't end with him and I don't think he paints himself as the father of a nation, like Erdogan. He did his job and if he can't continue to deliver, then he will retire.

Maybe it would be time to think about the parliamentary system and have a strong PM instead. Would save hassle with elections, terms and etc. I personally think that political system and stability in Russia matured enough for this, but I am not sure if anyone wants to experiment now.

flamming_python wrote:I think Kadyrov should take over as acting president TBH. He's not afraid to make statements, promises, threats - and see them through.

Putin is done. Launched an operation, it went wrong, turned into the biggest war since Korea. But he's not one to ever admit his mistakes. You don't even see him around, Peskov does most of the talking while Putin sometimes transmits from his bunker. He's still afraid of Covid
And where the fk is Shoigu? That guy is even worse. Virtually disappeared as soon as the war began
Kadyrov on the other hand is updating people several times a day.

We need some of that Jihadist spirit to get us through this confrontation with ze West.
I'm not a hawk or hardliner and this war is bullshit, but any more blatant weakness and incompetence and the Europeans/Americans will eat us alive while the rest of world will ditch us.

It's pathetic nuff said

Kadyrov is 100% the ideal of a leader

Arkanghelsk wrote:

It's pathetic nuff said

Kadyrov is 100% the ideal of a leader

Dude, you are probably in your 20s... He killed Russians during First Chechen war. Just like his father. He was made into an attack dog for a reason. Don't fall for PR bullshit. All the fighting is done by DNR guys in that front, check true reporting by WarGonzo and other journalists.

Kadyrov and the chechens fight for Russia

Flaming is right when he speaks of that kind of spirit, the chechens are willing to fight for that leader and it spreads good morale

Putin, peskov, Medvedev are how flaming describes, the guy is hiding in the basement, made one appearance for political points

But does not make any comments about the operation, shoigu also is missing in action.

Who do we see? Medinsky, peskov, and unsavory characters who are destroying morale

Kadyrov is the template of a leader that inspires confidence

Regular wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:

It's pathetic nuff said

Kadyrov is 100% the ideal of a leader

Dude, you are probably in your 20s... He killed Russians during First Chechen war. Just like his father. He was made into an attack dog for a reason. Don't fall for PR bullshit. All the fighting is done by DNR guys in that front, check true reporting by WarGonzo and other journalists.

Perhaps, but image counts for a lot

Russia needs to put on its warface, issue mobilization orders, and an ultimatum to the criminal Ukrainian generals who defend their cynical murdering regime who carry out massacres like Bucha to accuse their enemies in front of the cameras - to either withdraw their men from Donbass, Kharkov, Nikolayev, Zaporozhie and Odessa within 96 hours, or suffer the consequences

And after that, the next ultimatum - withdrawal from Kirovograd, Sumy, Chernigov and Cherkassy

Hopefully, this would lead to less deaths rather than more.

flamming_python wrote:I think Kadyrov should take over as acting president TBH. He's not afraid to make statements, promises, threats - and see them through.

Putin is done. Launched an operation, it went wrong, turned into the biggest war since Korea. But he's not one to ever admit his mistakes. You don't even see him around, Peskov does most of the talking while Putin sometimes transmits from his bunker. He's still afraid of Covid
And where the fk is Shoigu? That guy is even worse. Virtually disappeared as soon as the war began
Kadyrov on the other hand is updating people several times a day.

We need some of that Jihadist spirit to get us through this confrontation with ze West.
I'm not a hawk or hardliner and this war is bullshit, but any more blatant weakness and incompetence and the Europeans/Americans will eat us alive while the rest of world will ditch us.

Ramsey is good though dont you think it is just a bad cop role? 1) coivd in Putin's age is really a threat 2) West already tried to kill pres of Kazakhstan dont you think now threat for Putin is real?

3) why Shoigu is not in the same place as Putin? perhaps too high risk at war for them to be in the same room? This means situation si hot.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

flamming_python wrote:I think Kadyrov should take over as acting president TBH. He's not afraid to make statements, promises, threats - and see them through.

Putin is done. Launched an operation, it went wrong, turned into the biggest war since Korea. But he's not one to ever admit his mistakes. You don't even see him around, Peskov does most of the talking while Putin sometimes transmits from his bunker. He's still afraid of Covid
And where the fk is Shoigu? That guy is even worse. Virtually disappeared as soon as the war began
Kadyrov on the other hand is updating people several times a day.

We need some of that Jihadist spirit to get us through this confrontation with ze West.
I'm not a hawk or hardliner and this war is bullshit, but any more blatant weakness and incompetence and the Europeans/Americans will eat us alive while the rest of world will ditch us.

Ramsey is good though dont you think it is just a bad cop role?  1) coivd in Putin's age is really a threat 2) West already tried to kill pres of Kazakhstan dont you think now threat for Putin is real?  

3) why Shoigu is not in the same place as Putin? perhaps too high risk at war for them to be in the same room? This means situation si hot.

A leader needs to own the danger and be with his people when the war, essentially, has become existential.

And the West wouldn't dare take him out.

"If it turns out to be true"

Seriously?

Supposedly dead bodies moving around? Laid out moronically on the road.

At least in Racak NATzO's doggies the UCK transferred its dead into a ditch for the photo op. But in Bucha we had "murdered"
civilians laid out in locations that do not make any sense if they were killed by an armed force.

The Ukrainians are murdering POWs in Marinka and Rubeznoe

This is ISIS level

kvs wrote:"If it turns out to be true"

Seriously?

Supposedly dead bodies moving around?   Laid out moronically on the road.  

At least in Racak NATzO's doggies the UCK transferred its dead into a ditch for the photo op.   But in Bucha we had "murdered"
civilians laid out in locations that do not make any sense if they were killed by an armed force.  

Then why do Ukrainian nationalists had a video about them asking if they can shoot at people there and it was quickly removed after the killings got public?

That hand move in HQ video looks like a reflection or spec and the moving body can be due to a curved mirror.

Check this video


https://t.me/istorijaoruzija/51398

All people killed have white armbands. You can guess what they represent.

Only one way to put a mad dog out of its misery. It's simple and shouldn't be this overly complicated. But remember, the "smart ones" are usually the dumbess ones when it comes to this stuff. They add so many layers and conditional variables to the solution of a problem that it becomes impossible to fix in the practice of such.

ATLASCUB wrote:Only one way to put a mad dog out of its misery. It's simple and shouldn't be this overly complicated. But remember, the "smart ones" are usually the dumbess ones when it comes to this stuff. They add so many layers and conditional variables to a solution for a problem that it becomes impossible to fix in the practice of such.

You put a bullet right in its head

But yes the leadership fumbles around and mumbles incoherent shit that has been passed off as strategy for too long

The military knew what needed to be done and carry out the tasks faithfully , although limited by the political cancer that is stopping the mad dog from being shot in his head and buried

flamming_python wrote:

A leader needs to own the danger and be with his people when the war, essentially, has become existential.

And the West wouldn't dare take him out.

But loosing Putin now would be even bigger blow to Russia. We have no idea what is behind the front lines. Economic, political talks, negotiations threats ? Why Putin didn't remove maidowns?

IMHO Economical situation (dependency on western tech) + neither Avangard nor Zircon and Kinzhal were ready...China was not ready yet too. Now it seems the first time Russia and allies have a chance with the west.

Arkanghelsk wrote:
You put a bullet right in its head

But yes the leadership fumbles around and mumbles incoherent shit that has been passed off as strategy for too long

The military knew what needed to be done and carry out the tasks faithfully , although limited by the political cancer that is stopping the mad dog from being shot in his head and buried

Since when politics help the military win the war?
All they do is interfere and try to tie military hands behind their backs. Russia trained its military to fight a proper conventional war (like now), look at Vostok exercises, equipment, and troops used.

Not a special operation... It's like asking best boxer in the world to fix your car... While wearing boxing gloves.