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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    ATLASCUB
    ATLASCUB


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:44 pm

    All the boasting and chest bumping is fine and dandy but the fact remains that the front line is still pretty much stuck on the Donbass region. High kill death ratio advantage does not guarantee victory.. (and victory is defined subjectively - it's relative to current costs, opportunity costs, and long term strategic implications - that is to say, every thinking brain has a definition of what victory (and defeat) looks like - not exclusive to be defined by propagandists of the West or Russia). No better example than Vietnam for the younglings. The political solution is still as far away as before hostilities began and depending on perspective, some could make the claim it's even further back.

    The West completely demolished the Putin empty threat of "no-interference allowed" when the operation was launched. To go along with the obvious revelation of the complete inability of Russia to successfully stop the inflow and resupply of Ukraine by Western patrons......which is obviously, in my opinion, more so than inability... a lack of political will mixed with strategy hubris (6D chess richochet).

    The biggest empty threat of all being "decision making centers - war declaration bluff" if Russia proper was attacked - but everyone knew that threat was bluff the second the "Kiev feint" ended in retreat and no one in Kiev was touched. The elites in western capitals, and the Kievan rats simply made the correct conclusions and calculations.... safe to say that they were right.

    The Russian air force to this day has yet to do a single bombing run with long range tactical bombers to disable airports, railways, bridges and other critical infrastructure key to enemy reinforcement/resupply despite the fact that Ukraine destroys such infrastructure anyway if they happen to be under threat of permanent occupation. That is to say, the infrastructure for the regime is only valuable as long as it's under their control and is effectively disabled when under permanent retreat. Begs the question, why is Russia then refraining from destroying it - considering how important it's to the enemy to resupply? It's not a question of some bigger strategy at play anymore, of a campaign for the "hearts and minds" and all other plausible considerations. The reality of the matter is pretty straight forward with only one possible outcome in this regard. This shows failure to adapt to enemy strategy. You need more than a couple of calibers to disable infrastructure of this kind (and thus no viable)... that is where aerial bombing comes in. But if you're scared of losing strategic bombers to Kiev due to western intel sharing then it says all you need to know really..
    None of those shortcomings, along with many other failings and deficiencies which have been discussed to death, prevent victory, but they certainly don't make it easier to achieve.

    The grain saga is just embarrassing all around. To read RT articles saying: "it's good thing and here's why - explainer" makes you wonder if Langley assets are actually in control. Then again Russians are reactionary propagandists for the most part, so it's to be expected for them to fall into narrative traps, aka always one step behind due to lack of initiative.

    The wishful thinking and pysop cries from Russian propagandists seeking to change Western decisions in hopes they "stop" supporting Ukraine politically with arms/supplies etc... framing it as "hopeless, losing effort"... despite consistency, has miserably failed. Mainly cause everyone with a thinking brain can see through it, as does anyone with a thinking brain spotting western psyops in action. It's a well played out book. A lot of the dimwitts here do themselves a disservice to their brain consuming such garbage daily from such characters (love being lied to by "independent analysts").... although obviously other accounts here do it purposefully because they're getting paid to. Sad state of affairs on practically every forum of discussion.

    The collapse of the Ukrainian resistance continues to be aloof, just as the "imminent collapse" of the Kiev regime was for the last 8 years. It should serve as a reality check, but you can't fix stupid - sheeple love being sheeple.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Hole
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Hole Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:18 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Fyr1xf10
    Now it will be very difficult for the west to claim that evil Russians are "starving the whole world". 
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Fyrgb-10
    He wasn´t forced to resign. Until today, at least. 
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Kramat11
    Kramatorsk. Some gathering point for Nazi fighters. The strike was yesterday.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:20 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Fysfse10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Fysfse11
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Fysnss10

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    pavi


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  pavi Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:24 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:All the boasting and chest bumping is fine and dandy but the fact remains that the front line is still pretty much stuck on the Donbass region. High kill death ratio advantage does not guarantee victory.. (and victory is defined subjectively - it's relative to current costs, opportunity costs, and long term strategic implications - that is to say, every thinking brain has a definition of what victory (and defeat) looks like - not exclusive to be defined by propagandists of the West or Russia). No better example than Vietnam for the younglings. The political solution is still as far away as before hostilities began and depending on perspective, some could make the claim it's even further back.

    The West completely demolished the Putin empty threat of "no-interference allowed" when the operation was launched. To go along with the obvious revelation of the complete inability of Russia to successfully stop the inflow and resupply of Ukraine by Western patrons......which is obviously, in my opinion, more so than inability... a lack of political will mixed with strategy hubris (6D chess richochet).

    The biggest empty threat of all being "decision making centers - war declaration bluff" if Russia proper was attacked - but everyone knew that threat was bluff the second the "Kiev feint" ended in retreat and no one in Kiev was touched. The elites in western capitals, and the Kievan rats simply made the correct conclusions and calculations.... safe to say that they were right.

    The Russian air force to this day has yet to do a single bombing run with long range tactical bombers to disable airports, railways, bridges and other critical infrastructure key to enemy reinforcement/resupply despite the fact that Ukraine destroys such infrastructure anyway if they happen to be under threat of permanent occupation. That is to say, the infrastructure for the regime is only valuable as long as it's under their control and is effectively disabled when under permanent retreat. Begs the question, why is Russia then refraining from destroying it - considering how important it's to the enemy to resupply? It's not a question of some bigger strategy at play anymore, of a campaign for the "hearts and minds" and all other plausible considerations. The reality of the matter is pretty straight forward with only one possible outcome in this regard. This shows failure to adapt to enemy strategy. You need more than a couple of calibers to disable infrastructure of this kind (and thus no viable)... that is where aerial bombing comes in. But if you're scared of losing strategic bombers to Kiev due to western intel sharing then it says all you need to know really..
    None of those shortcomings, along with many other failings and deficiencies which have been discussed to death, prevent victory, but they certainly don't make it easier to achieve.

    The grain saga is just embarrassing all around. To read RT articles saying: "it's good thing and here's why - explainer" makes you wonder if Langley assets are actually in control. Then again Russians are reactionary propagandists for the most part, so it's to be expected for them to fall into narrative traps, aka always one step behind due to lack of initiative.

    The wishful thinking and pysop cries from Russian propagandists seeking to change Western decisions in hopes they "stop" supporting Ukraine politically with arms/supplies etc... "in a hopeless, losing effort"... despite consistency, has miserably failed. Mainly cause everyone with a thinking brain can see through it, as does anyone with a thinking brain spotting western psyops in action. It's a well played out book. A lot of the dimwitts here do themselves a disservice to their brain consuming such garbage daily from such characters (love being lied to by "independent analyst").... although obviously other accounts here do it purposefully because they're getting paid to. Sad state of affairs on practically every forum of discussion.

    The collapse of the Ukrainian resistance continues to be aloof, just as the collapse of the Kiev regime was for the last 8 years. It should serve as a reality check, but you can't fix stupid - sheeple love being sheeple.

    Have yuo ever been...
    https://sonar21.com/operation-z-dont-interrupt/
    I do not know, you do not know, but certainly, someone better understanding the situation may know. My couple of empty beer cans..
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    calripson


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Empty The Big Picture

    Post  calripson Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:31 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:All the boasting and chest bumping is fine and dandy but the fact remains that the front line is still pretty much stuck on the Donbass region. High kill death ratio advantage does not guarantee victory.. (and victory is defined subjectively - it's relative to current costs, opportunity costs, and long term strategic implications - that is to say, every thinking brain has a definition of what victory (and defeat) looks like - not exclusive to be defined by propagandists of the West or Russia). No better example than Vietnam for the younglings. The political solution is still as far away as before hostilities began and depending on perspective, some could make the claim it's even further back.

    The West completely demolished the Putin empty threat of "no-interference allowed" when the operation was launched. To go along with the obvious revelation of the complete inability of Russia to successfully stop the inflow and resupply of Ukraine by Western patrons......which is obviously, in my opinion, more so than inability... a lack of political will mixed with strategy hubris (6D chess richochet).

    The biggest empty threat of all being "decision making centers - war declaration bluff" if Russia proper was attacked - but everyone knew that threat was bluff the second the "Kiev feint" ended in retreat and no one in Kiev was touched. The elites in western capitals, and the Kievan rats simply made the correct conclusions and calculations.... safe to say that they were right.

    The Russian air force to this day has yet to do a single bombing run with long range tactical bombers to disable airports, railways, bridges and other critical infrastructure key to enemy reinforcement/resupply despite the fact that Ukraine destroys such infrastructure anyway if they happen to be under threat of permanent occupation. That is to say, the infrastructure for the regime is only valuable as long as it's under their control and is effectively disabled when under permanent retreat. Begs the question, why is Russia then refraining from destroying it - considering how important it's to the enemy to resupply? It's not a question of some bigger strategy at play anymore, of a campaign for the "hearts and minds" and all other plausible considerations. The reality of the matter is pretty straight forward with only one possible outcome in this regard. This shows failure to adapt to enemy strategy. You need more than a couple of calibers to disable infrastructure of this kind (and thus no viable)... that is where aerial bombing comes in. But if you're scared of losing strategic bombers to Kiev due to western intel sharing then it says all you need to know really..
    None of those shortcomings, along with many other failings and deficiencies which have been discussed to death, prevent victory, but they certainly don't make it easier to achieve.

    The grain saga is just embarrassing all around. To read RT articles saying: "it's good thing and here's why - explainer" makes you wonder if Langley assets are actually in control. Then again Russians are reactionary propagandists for the most part, so it's to be expected for them to fall into narrative traps, aka always one step behind due to lack of initiative.

    The wishful thinking and pysop cries from Russian propagandists seeking to change Western decisions in hopes they "stop" supporting Ukraine politically with arms/supplies etc... "in a hopeless, losing effort"... despite consistency, has miserably failed. Mainly cause everyone with a thinking brain can see through it, as does anyone with a thinking brain spotting western psyops in action. It's a well played out book. A lot of the dimwitts here do themselves a disservice to their brain consuming such garbage daily from such characters (love being lied to by "independent analyst").... although obviously other accounts here do it purposefully because they're getting paid to. Sad state of affairs on practically every forum of discussion.

    The collapse of the Ukrainian resistance continues to be aloof, just as the collapse of the Kiev regime was for the last 8 years. It should serve as a reality check, but you can't fix stupid - sheeple love being sheeple.

    You are correct on most your points. At the end of the day, getting Russians and Ukrainians to kill each other while the real powers that be sit back in comfortable lounge chairs in private clubs in London or Zurich is such an epic fail as to be almost beyond comprehension.

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    ATLASCUB
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:35 pm

    I'm exposed to that type of literature. Safe to say it's an interpretation, of endless ones of the same kind. Black and white, and Russia triumphalist. Next in line.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    pavi


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Empty This is for dummes

    Post  pavi Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:36 pm

    Let me clarify my thoughts:
    - When russians are fighting in donbas their supply lines are mangeable and short.->
    - When UKIEs are fightin in Donbas their supply lines must be crossed dnieper and are around 100 km long.
    - If they are able to de-militarisize around 1k per day+ equipment, the rate of destruction is enermous, which is not sustainable.
    - As long as those idiots continue to pour those bastards, let them die... I have not seen such a stupid way to fight since 1940s. It may be good for politics, but very bad for the fighters.
    - If ruskies occupy more land, they will need everything more. Surface area is related second power of the dimesion you are advancing!!!

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    ATLASCUB
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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:50 pm

    You need to control land to force the enemy into a corner and negotiate - lest they lose all which allow the creation of legitimacy to rule. The objectives of war are the submission of the enemy, the theft of its land and its resources if possible but above all, elimination of/and/or theft of human capital.

    There is no strong indication there is a political will on Russia's part to control most of Ukraine. For all the cries about the "new iron curtain" you would think there would be a more clear, and decisive impulse to have that line as far west as possible. Negotiations? what for given the current demarcation lines?

    The current conditions lend more to a ceasefire solution that gets solved only after a long cold war is settled (decades) with the winners established thereafter. That is, safe to to say, catastrophic for Russia. You could enamor the situation by citing Napoleon's defeats, while someone else could enamor it with the battle of Verdun on the opposite end of the spectrum.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:00 pm; edited 4 times in total
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:51 pm

    A new ace with 12 kills.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:53 pm

    Arestovich and Ukrainians and western Twitter harping about a cauldron of Russian troops in Kherson

    It's spreading across western Twitter and reddit

    I mean, they can continue the Bullshit for sure

    But Donbass will be liberated

    Lavrov and Other already stated expanded goals after Donbass

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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:58 pm

    Hole wrote:https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/a-peculiar-math.html

    Western (NATO) propaganda told us that the M777 and HIMASS would be used to destroy Russian artillery. In reality 99% of the attacks are against civilian targets,
    because they tried to use the M777 in counter-battery fire and received a bloody nose. Now you can watch NATO mercenaries driving around in HIMASS panicly trying
    to avoid being hit by russian high-precision weapons. They can´t be used to support military actions. This are not Wunderwaffen but Vergeltungswaffen (retaliatory weapons)
    like V-1 and V-2. This proves that there is no VSU left, even with NATO help they´re just a bunch of single units fighting for themselves.

    The best NATO can come up with in a fight against Russia are ISIS-style terror attacks. That´s what you get for 1,4 Trill. $.  Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Some people still have trouble to believe that an millitary organization like NATO, comprising several nations and that sinks ridiculous amounts of money into its "millitary" cant handle Russia.

    Too long NATO rant here....

    [One reason is that NATO is rife with absolute corruption when it comes to Defense spending.

    massive NATO incompetency Rant here....

    Arms manufacturers pay politicians to get premium deals trough their respective governments.
    The weapon does not even have to match basic requirements. They just corrupt the field tests and push trough the paperworks.

    One example is the Gill ATGM we procured. We took it to Afghanistan for actual field testing.
    its an top-attack weapon, the versions we had in 2006 lost momentary contact with its target.
    We fired three times, and every time we missed the target. this empty shipping container on the firing range by several meters.

    The lock went fine, but every time the weapon was fired it slammed in an random position near the container.
    Turned out, the Weapon could not re-acquire the shipping container as it was the same temperature as the surrounding desert.

    it got worse than that, right after infantry used the heavy weapon range after sundown. The system was tested again, the container still retained heat. missile was locked on and fired again.
    Instead of going for the container, it went for the still smoldering wreck that was hit by several AT weapons and was hotter than the container itself.

    This weapon was not safe to operate, what would it do when one of our APC's was nearby in combat?. guns and engine glowing hot?.
    We send this weapon home, nobody wanted to blow up one of our own APC's with guys inside.

    3 years later in the bar, doing my above story with some troops. A few clarified what really happened during weapon trials.
    The tests where done during autumn in Germany, They set up several heaters up on an firing range for the government officials and weapon manufacturer's representatives.
    They encountered the exact same issue with the weapon deviating from its original target. Saying to the government officials witnessing the pre-demonstration test that this weapon was untrustworthy and an threat to own forces if they where nearby.

    Their opinion was disregarded, they where to remove all heaters to just the one for the Demonstration.
    The Deal was already approved, this was just all a show.

    I got similar story's for several other recent NATO procurements.
    one of my favorites is how we took the Fennek Recon to Afghanistan, got guys driving on IED's that got spread all over the vehicles interiors where you at best could scrape 25KG's of human remains from the walls.
    All these IED incidents had the armor plating weld break right under the driver.
    you know what the manufacturers said to us when we enquired about this issue to their Mechanics in Afghanistan?.
    "your government opted out of the IED package for the vehicles, we knew, we offered it. they declined. Pricetag was "just" 30.000".
    this led to an serious incident with Fennek operators and the Government back home.
    The government explained eventually: "better 3000 euro for an funeral, than 30.000 and still have the vehicle wrecked just the same and paying for revalidation/compensation".
    the entire unit quit, refusing to go to Afghanistan driving an casket on wheels.

    NATO is just an heroine addict to the MIC. their own personal Dealer.
    Nobody cares if the Weapon is suitable for War. Shit, most is not even suitable for peacetime training.
    Its an miracle not more NATO troops die because of malfunctioning "new" weaponry.
    Some of these things just blow their breach, sending the 50MM main gun breach out of the rear door of an IFV.

    a handful of weapons are okay, the majority is just overpriced crap made for window-dressing.

    Then there is the absolute incompetency in Leadership.
    Nowadays, NATO is full of Yes men, and every adversary is an idiot.

    it was not always like it is now, The great exodus of Good soldiers, sergeants, and officers came with Afghanistan and Iraq.
    what led to everyone capable leaving was our own side just fed bullshit to the people back home like it was an "reconstruction mission, while some provinces where akin to open warfare.
    everyone with criticism or guts to defy the command for their idiotic idea's either left themselves or where forced to leave.

    you know with what you have left?.
    Idiots that you hand over an pallet full boxes with propaganda flyers, saying "drop these over an town"
    They dropped them allright, still in their boxes, strapped to the box pallet from the rear of an C-130 and the entire thing came down straight trough some poor afghan's roof.

    Some guy responsible for ordering Fuel for the entire main ISAF base in the province reaches end of tour, and goes home.
    Not finding it strange he has no replacement, and the new unit's command never notices the fuel bladder decreasing over the weeks.
    Fuel ran out, and they where limited to foot patrols only without vehicle support. Villages at medium to long range where fucked and Taliban went to town on there.

    Some absolutely backwards ass plan gets cooked up by command. Some new lieutenant looking for an career thinks its awesome and tells the men to grow some balls.
    It pretty much went along the lines as we would expect. His unit over-extended, Taliban sprung the trap and his unit got isolated for an while.
    Engaged 360 and taking some casualties, the Lieutenant froze. He was relieved of command by his senior sargeant mid-battle by yelling over the radio he'd took control witch his experienced troops followed.
    The unit organized and held out until they could be reached by nearby units and QRF.
    You know the current NATO culture and what happened here?.

    The lieutenant had a "tactical freeze" , and the senior sergeant defied his authority and promptly was kicked out of the army.
    His own unit protested, stating they probably where still alive because of him.

    The Lieutenant should have been court-marshalled and the senior sergeant decorated and promoted for doing what he did.

    Courage and self-initiative is strongly discouraged.
    Doing exactly as you are told without question and aspiring to become some Drone in Brussels NATO HQ is desired.
    Accept your orders that come trough NATO HQ and your own government, but are actually from your U.S Overlords.

    And each and everyone of these officers are absolutely full of themselves.
    In 2014 they where collectively wanking off how they would seize Crimea and its black sea port right from under Russia.
    Those upstarts in Eastern Ukraine?. pffff.....no match for the superior leadership and training from NATO.
    After that, station "missile shields" that in reality would have nuclear-tipped warheads for quick reload/replacement.
    similar to the site in Romania and under construction in Poland.

    There where still guys out there in NATO army's that warned what NATO/We where doing is unacceptable to the Russians.
    That every single one of them was an reason for Russia to Respond. I was one of them.

    The "anti terror" operation in eastern Ukraine supported by NATO.
    Trying to seize Crimea and its black sea ports.
    Ukraine being seized by Nazi's we openly supported.
    etcetera etcetera

    They all laughed, they all think there are no consequences.

    Lower ranks just the same, My army used to pick from "hardened" recruits.
    Kids that grew up with hardships in their lives. Poverty, meaning no luxury growing up.
    Divorced parents, because it meant mental resilience.
    Kids that had it tough. They where the most likely to make it trough Boot and survive traumatic encounters relatively unscathed.

    Nowadays, the snowflakes are the ones.
    Preferably the ones that check the most boxes: LGBTQ+++, Immigrant, alternative religions, Left leaning, because god forbid you feel your something for you national identity and your flag. social activists and etc etc.
    Indeed they are usually the whiney scrawny ones.
    And no...they can not meet the old military standards so we lower those too.
    Because hauling around your own munitions, body armor and radio's is too tiring.
    "its not service, i go on an Adventure Teehee!".

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 The_re11

    I can already see such cannon-fodder storming the Iranian beaches with their purple dyed hair and pulling out the phone to twitter they are winning while the Republican Gaurd are handing their asses to them...

    Now realize I'm just one guy, with about 10 years wandering in random locations where NATO operates.
    How big do you think this iceberg of incompetence and corruption in NATO really is?.

    NATO is already logistically broken by Russia and the LPR and DPR.
    Now its just trading its own last remaining pockets of equipment to extend the war.
    They can F-16's, A-10s, HIMARS, PZH-2000's or whatever.
    But it does not matter.
    Like other users here mentioned way before me.
    These "wunderwaffe" will not change the war.

    It did not save the Nazi's in World war 2.
    It will not save them now in the 2022 Denazification of Ukraine.

    NATO will not save Ukraine,
    It can not even save itself.
    And i can not wait to see it choke to death on its own incompetence.

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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:05 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Arestovich and Ukrainians and western Twitter harping about a cauldron of Russian troops in Kherson

    It's spreading across western Twitter and reddit

    I mean, they can continue the Bullshit for sure

    But Donbass will be liberated

    Lavrov and Other already stated expanded goals after Donbass

    Events on the ground state otherwise....
    i got a shitload of material with Ukrainians shelled to shit and taken POW.

    The West and Kiev are Desperate.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Ukrain11

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:05 pm

    lol1 lol1 200 aicraft shot down. Same dumb propaganda as 1940 nazis.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 13 Fylrck10

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:11 pm

    calripson wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:...junk...
    You are correct on most your points. At the end of the day, getting Russians and Ukrainians to kill each other while the real powers that be sit back in comfortable lounge chairs in private clubs in London or Zurich is such an epic fail as to be almost beyond comprehension.

    Considering what Ukrainians are this is a long overdue victory



    Also, don't quote that moron, he is on my ignore list

    Thanks






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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:13 pm

    Serbs were considered (still are in elite circles) the same once. Talk about writing junk.

    As for ignore list... don't fool yourself kiddo. You're one of the many angry dimwitts here who love to bite at my heels. Can't help yourself and that will never change.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:35 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:19 pm

    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This next series of battles for the russians will be the hardest, after these, there are just open plains.
    Ukraine will fight tooth and nail here since they cannot afford to lose the natural defensive positions and all the defensive they built up during those eight years

    Ukrainians suffered too many casualties. I doubt the reservist and old people they oblige to go to the front can resist against russian forces.

    They are getting slaughtered daily

    As for those several towns on the frontline they are all surrounded by hills and Ukrops are hiding in literal concrete trenches on top of those hills

    Before offensive resumes VKS should plough those with something like KAB-1500L (or whatever those things with parachutes and rockets they used in Syria were)

    Trenches and bunkers are pretty useless when soil they are dug in is blown off-site


    What I'm saying is get Backfires on the job


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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:25 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This next series of battles for the russians will be the hardest, after these, there are just open plains.
    Ukraine will fight tooth and nail here since they cannot afford to lose the natural defensive positions and all the defensive they built up during those eight years

    Ukrainians suffered too many casualties. I doubt the reservist and old people they oblige to go to the front can resist against russian forces.

    They are getting slaughtered daily

    As for those several towns on the frontline they are all surrounded by hills and Ukrops are hiding in literal concrete trenches on top of those hills

    Before offensive resumes VKS should plough those with something like KAB-1500L (or whatever those things with parachutes and rockets they used in Syria were)

    Trenches and bunkers are pretty useless when soil they are dug in is blown off-site


    What I'm saying is get Backfires on the job



    well, Tulips seem to be pretty effective at removing Trenched Nazi's too.
    You know the drill Wink. three shots and you get the range and settled the Base Plate.
    Its Hell for the receiving party from there. Cool

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    Post  DerWolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:34 pm

    No major advancement recently, looks like calm before the storm.

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    Post  pavi Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:54 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:You need to control land to force the enemy into a corner and negotiate - lest they lose all which allow the creation of legitimacy to rule. The objectives of war are the submission of the enemy, the theft of its land and its resources if possible but above all, elimination of/and/or theft of human capital.

    There is no strong indication there is a political will on Russia's part to control most of Ukraine. For all the cries about the "new iron curtain" you would think there would be a more clear, and decisive impulse to have that line as far west as possible. Negotiations? what for given the current demarcation lines?

    The current conditions lend more to a ceasefire solution that gets solved only after a long cold war is settled (decades) with the winners established thereafter. That is, safe to to say, catastrophic for Russia. You could enamor the situation by citing Napoleon's defeats, while someone else could enamor it with the battle of Verdun on the opposite end of the spectrum.
    Of course, you may rush having more cities. On the other hand, wars are won by destroying army of the enemy, as Clausewitz sums it up. Occupuying more territory requires more resources. If you can decimate 1000 per day, do not rush. Enemy, whether how big it is, cannot produce 1000 fighter per day, which is exhausting eventually to the enemy.
    These conditions are only valid, if you :
    - dont have huge losses, and you have reservists.
    - Econmical situation is not too much degraded
    - enemy suffers more than you

    My opimiom with sme more smarter analyst than I, that Russia wants to keep this thing alive long enough to lay down on knees the EU. Which reforms the organization and, aybe, which is not possible in short term, kicks yankees out,

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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:58 pm

    DerWolf wrote:No major advancement recently, looks like calm before the storm.

    The combat is ongoing,
    Russians just do not advertise.
    Advancement is done under the cover of night.
    And Ukraine still acts like they are winning or holding on.
    that is...untill they can no longer deny they actually lost the territory.

    Meanwhile Telegram is littered with dead ukrainian troops in defensive trenches that DPR/LPR/RF troops take over.
    From the Ukrainian side things seem to confirm they are getting whiped out by RF artillery.



    from an infantry standpoint, there is no way to resist the Russian advance.
    they just shell the actual life out of you as soon they detect the trench you are hiding in is manned.
    all the Western HIMARS and M777 Wunderwaffe cant counter the RF onslaught of Artillery.

    All you can do is give up, or get out of the way.

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    Post  DerWolf Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:14 am

    https://mailbd.net/news/odessa-brigade-of-ukrainian-volunteers-formed-in-kherson-50041/

    Odessa brigade of Ukrainian volunteers formed in Kherson

    After the start of the Russian special operation more than once or twice, I heard that where, they say, are the very Ukrainians whom the Russians came to liberate? And for a long time there was nothing to answer. No, there was, of course, a separate special-purpose brigade “Odessa”, which was formed from volunteers, participants in the Kulikovo field in Odessa, by July 2014 and fought on the side of the Donbass. But later she joined the People’s Militia of the LPR.

    However, those traditions have not disappeared. And now in Kherson, the Odessa brigade has been formed and completed combat coordination, which, as its representative said, will begin offensive operations in the directions of Nikolaev and Odessa in the near future.



    – In the near future, together with the allied forces, we will begin to liberate the city of Nikolaev and the hero city of Odessa. There will be no mercy for the Ukronazis, mercenaries and any Bandera scum from us, – said this representative, whose personal data, of course, were not disclosed. “The only way for them to save their lives is to lay down their arms. Otherwise, they will all be destroyed.

    In the near future, the formed military unit will begin offensive operations in the directions of Nikolaev and Odessa. Photo: Sergey Bobylev / TASS
    In the near future, the formed military unit will begin offensive operations in the directions of Nikolaev and Odessa. Photo: Sergey Bobylev / TASS

    As this representative, about whose personality there are certain guesses, especially emphasized (it is very likely that he himself was not just from Odessa, but was a well-known and popular politician there), the brigade was formed exclusively from volunteers – citizens of Ukraine. It includes natives and residents not only of Odessa itself, but also of Nikolaev, Kherson, Kyiv, Izmail, Belgorod-Dnestrovsky, and other Ukrainian cities. There is even one guy from Western Ukraine.

    The composition of the brigade once again showed that these hostilities are not between Ukrainians and Russians, but between ideologies and value systems. It can be recalled that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have enough mercenaries from various countries.

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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:17 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Arrow wrote:An agreement will be signed today on the unblocking of Ukraine's ports and the export of Ukrainian grain.

    Shoigu is in Istanbul signing an agreement

    Wonder what it all means

    If there is an offensive coming on Odessa, what then is the value of such an agreement ?

    Temporary food relief? And what if they transport weapons?

    Bosphorus must be reopened to military traffic if that's the case


    If you remember that the head of the African Union met with Putin a few weeks ago. The cost of basic foods in Africa have risen and people are suffering. Even Ugandan president musevini told Ugandans to turn to eating more cassava instead of bread. Putin wants to be seen as reasonable and not be demonized as the guy who starved poor Africans although the western media will try to.

    The western population isn't complaining so much about cost of food (although there is some noise on the issue) there main complaint is energy costs, gas, oil, and fuel at petrol stations. And these issues won't go away with Russia allowing grain to leave Ukraine. However food prices for basic needs such as bread should be reduced for much of the poorer countries. Hence the agreement.


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    Post  dionis Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:25 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Does not suit their agenda to publish such information... just look at the Russian losses site because most of them are Ukrainian anyway.




    There's plenty of pro-Russians with time on their hands to do this kind of stuff.

    I heard of a source doing this (unless I imagined it.. maybe?) - was hoping someone here know the link to the Ukranian tank/vehicles losses tracker.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:32 am

    As for this talk on drones, Iran, etc etc. Drones have their uses, and I would say good quality recon drones are far more useful than armed drones. Drones won't win battles or wars. As for Syria and drones I think we all know what was being reported 90% of the time, - airstrikes airstrikes airstrikes. Drones really only got mentioned when vast amounts of enemy drones where being taken down by pantsir and EW assets. Very rarely did we hear of drones taking out the enemy. And even less reports of Iranian drones coming to the rescue. Iranians helped with manpower in Aleppo city. Apart from that all we heard was about high ranking Iranian officers being killed on front line leading troops into skirmishes. Which was pretty shocking and embarrassing. Hezbollah and other paramilitary groups seem to have had better success stories than Iranian soldiers, or even IRGC. Quds most likely played a role as well. But apart from providing troops very little in the way of hardware was provided, only notable mention was a handful of Su-22 given to Syrian air force.

    Anyway let's get back to what this thread is about Ukraine.


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    Post  mnztr Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:50 am

    calripson wrote:

    You are correct on most your points. At the end of the day, getting Russians and Ukrainians to kill each other while the real powers that be sit back in comfortable lounge chairs in private clubs in London or Zurich is such an epic fail as to be almost beyond comprehension.

    This was certainly the plan of the west. But now regime changes are accelerating in the West, energy costs are exploding and WINTER IS COMING. Everyone knows the shit is gonna hit the fan.

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