Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

Podlodka77 wrote:And again, I have to write to non-believers and atheists that the "Ukrainian Orthodox" church is a big problem, problem number one, while language is problem number two. And with those two things (the church and the language) the Nazi creation Ukroshitsan wants to present itself as the heir of Kievan Rus, while that same country wants to present the Russians as savages and Mongols.

While i see that newly found Ukrainian church is a problem, i don't agree for two reasons, it is a number one.
Firstly, religion has even less influence in the life of Ukrainians than it is case with Serbs.
Second, most of the dioceses are still controlled by Moscow patriarchy.
That might change in the future, but that remains to be seen, as we don't know how will whole situation evolve.
Forcing the language and western Ukrainian identity are a reason number for this whole mess to begin with. I have to remind you that most nationalistic regions in the West are Greek Catholic and not Orthodox. Forming Ukrainian Orthodox church was just another familiar thing from the western playbook.

caveat emptor wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:And again, I have to write to non-believers and atheists that the "Ukrainian Orthodox" church is a big problem, problem number one, while language is problem number two. And with those two things (the church and the language) the Nazi creation Ukroshitsan wants to present itself as the heir of Kievan Rus, while that same country wants to present the Russians as savages and Mongols.

While i see that newly found Ukrainian church is a problem, i don't agree for two reasons, it is a number one.
Firstly, religion has even less influence in the life of Ukrainians than it is case with Serbs.
Second, most of the dioceses are still controlled by Moscow patriarchy.
That might change in the future, but that remains to be seen, as we don't know how will whole situation evolve.
Forcing the language and western Ukrainian identity are a reason number for this whole mess to begin with. I have to remind you that most nationalistic regions in the West are Greek Catholic and not Orthodox. Forming Ukrainian Orthodox church was just another familiar thing from the western playbook.

Serbs were never Nazis, and if it were the other way around, then Belgrade and Novi Sad would not be visited so much by people from all over the world.
And what is Western Ukraine but a Greek Catholic region? For those who don't know, I will write to them that that church (Greek Catholic) is financed directly from Rome. I'm not writing that you don't know, but the Roman Catholic Church finances that church. From Orthodox Ukraine and the Russian-speaking area, they want to make a Russophobic creation modeled after Western Ukraine.
The church creates "identity", that is what the Nazis in Ukraine are fighting for, which atheists will never understand. It is not good to be either a blind believer or an atheist.
These fighters who are fighting for Elensky are mostly Nazis who want to destroy everything Russian and any connection between Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine is an artificial creation that in large part must be broken and a good part must return to Moscow's gravitational field.

Podlodka77 wrote:

Friends, I was born and lived until 1991 20 km from the notorious Jasenovac concentration camp. That's why I know what sick hatred towards a people means, the one that Croats have towards Serbs. The plan of the Ustasha state in the Second World War was as follows; "baptize one third of the Serbs, expel one third of the Serbs and kill one third". They killed more than one third. And again 45 years later, that is, in 1991, they set out and expelled the rest of the Serbs from Croatia. And who helped them in that but the Catholic West ? Orthodox Russia does not want fags, it wants to preserve the role of men and the role of women in the family, just as it does not want to be a slave. I no longer know what role the deep state plays in the West and whether the Vatican is asking anything, but I know that neither of them want anything good for Russia. I am not a slave to the church, but I believe in God. I think that those in the West who lead politics do not believe in God, but they think that they are God - that's the problem.
Those of you who think that it is different in Ukraine, I have to tell you that you are mistaken.

The Kiev regime and the Ukr nationalists openly talked about and planned for the same ethnic cleansing that Croats staged before. Just as
in 1995, NATzO was going to fully support this ethnic cleansing in the Donbass and elsewhere. In fact, has already been happening
but more slowly and has received zero attention.

Russia needs to be merciless and totally devoid of any compromise with this real vermin. Genocide vermin. No more Minsk agreements and
any deals with NATzO. If NATzO tries to intervene, then break its teeth. NATzO is the usual empire construct and exits on the perception
of power without really having it. Rome was the same way as well.

Regarding the rust, burned metal experiences turbo rusting. You can see this from any burnt out factory or building with metal (iron based)
structural elements. There is no waiting period for weathering. I think it is because the heat ablates any thin iron oxide layer and paint or coating
leaving bare metal and the smoke deposits various compounds that accelerate corrosion. There is enough ambient moisture to get this going.

The various burned out tanks and vehicles in many videos and photos show the same rusting which is not because they were sitting out
under the rain for months.

Caveat Emptor wrote " Where did you come up that in Kharkov 14% is a Russian speaking population? " I looked at one of the maps on the internet titled " ethnic map of Ukraine . " Now dividing the territories according to language is a solution . But care must be taken in this regard . The main city in a district or county ( oblast ? ) may speak one or another language , but the rural districts and villages might speak another language , as someone pointed out . But it is the overall average number that is the majority , that counts or carries the vote . The reason for considering each district or county is that ; each county or district is the smallest unit that can have a reasonable independent economic structure or life . It can be self sustaining . Such as infrastructure existing for power or water or agriculture or administrative , being integrated . We can not separate each household in every district , according to language spoken . But we can demarcate each district or county . In this regard , even if in Donetsk , if they were before the wars , some minority Ukrainian speakers , then consideration should be given to the entire Donetsk legal boundary and overall majority language spoken there . Same with other districts .

nomadski wrote:
Caveat Emptor wrote " Where did you come up that in Kharkov 14% is a Russian speaking population? " I looked at one of the maps on the internet titled " ethnic map of Ukraine . "  Now dividing the territories according to language is a solution . But care must be taken in this regard . The main city in a district or county ( oblast ? ) may speak one or another language , but the rural districts and villages might speak another language , as someone pointed out . But it is the overall average number that is the majority , that counts or carries the vote . The reason for considering each district or county is that ; each county or district is the smallest unit that can have a reasonable independent economic structure or life . It can be self sustaining . Such as infrastructure existing for power or water or agriculture or administrative , being integrated . We can not separate each household in every district , according to language spoken . But we can demarcate each district or county . In this regard , even if in Donetsk , if they were before the wars , some minority Ukrainian speakers , then consideration should be given to the entire Donetsk legal boundary and overall majority language spoken there . Same with other districts .

Maps you found are bullshit. In case of Kharkhov oblast, as i said, i doubt that even 14% can speak the Ukrainian fluently, and even less use it in day to day. As i said in villages they speak Surzhyk. When i was in Kharkhov I've never heard anyone speaking Ukrainian. Even those fuckers from Kraken, which are recruited from Kharkhov ultras and far right groups don't speak Ukrainian in their videos.
Anyway, nothing personal, but giving opinion on something you don't know first thing about and trying to back your view with " maps i found on internet" is just wrong. And, i don't want to sound like some pompous asshole.

No , you are right to question the maps on internet , and I may have quoted numbers for Kharkiv region wrong ; quoting 14% overall for Kharkiv , instead of 25% overall for the Kharkiv region . The 14% number belongs to a southern region of Mykolaiev ? But are there accurate and objective ethnic map that you can quote ? The important question is : what minority number , justifies liberation ? And what number justifies evacuation ? And I am talking about , pre - war numbers , even before the SMO ? And inter- ethnic conflict . Suppose we  save 5% Russians in a region , from 95% Ukrainians is justified in launching an offensive that will kill many more than the 5% that we save , is this worth it ? Or  in a region like kharkiv , launching an offensive that will kill many less than the 25% ? But will displace many more Ukrainians than Russians saved ? It is the greatest benefit ( survival ) of the greatest number .

nomadski wrote:No , you are right to question the maps on internet , and I may have quoted numbers for Kharkiv region wrong ; quoting 14% overall for Kharkiv , instead of 25% overall for the Kharkiv region . The 14% number belongs to a southern region of Mykolaiev ? But are there accurate and objective ethnic map that you can quote ? The important question is : what minority number , justifies liberation ? And what number justifies evacuation ? And I am talking about , pre - war numbers , even before the SMO ? And inter- ethnic conflict . Suppose we  save 5% Russians in a region , from 95% Ukrainians is justified in launching an offensive that will kill many more than the 5% that we save , is this worth it ? Or  in a region like kharkiv , launching an offensive that will kill many less than the 25% ? But will displace many more Ukrainians than Russians saved ? It is the greatest benefit ( survival ) of the greatest number .

Last census in 2001 was already manipulated, which is nothing unusual, as nation building started in all post-Soviet countries in 1991.
Ukraine, based on usage of language, was always Russian speaking South and East, transitional center, where people spoke mostly Russian in Poltava, Kirovograd, Sumy and even Kiev with transitioning to more Ukrainian west of Zhytomir. I would say that taking South and East, Russia will not have much problem incorporating any of the region. Western parts should be cut off from rest of Ukraine in every scenario.

From personal, completely subjective impression, Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk feel like completely different country.

Yes the calculation for West Ukraine is easier . But for Kharkiv and Mykolayev , the calculation more difficult . A general guesstimate of mine is that : if minority population in a REGION , is less than twenty percent , perhaps evacuation is best . But for areas with thirty or more percent , closer number to forty or fifty percent , then liberation is best . For areas between twenty to thirty percent , it all depends on the overall good versus harm , during the operation . My view is that if many Ukrainian are going to be displaced in Kharkiv or killed , or many soldiers killed , approaching the 25% number that will be " saved " , then operation should not go ahead . Same with Mykolayev . But Odessa should , after Donetsk .

nomadski wrote:No , you are right to question the maps on internet , and I may have quoted numbers for Kharkiv region wrong ; quoting 14% overall for Kharkiv , instead of 25% overall for the Kharkiv region . The 14% number belongs to a southern region of Mykolaiev ? But are there accurate and objective ethnic map that you can quote ? The important question is : what minority number , justifies liberation ? And what number justifies evacuation ? And I am talking about , pre - war numbers , even before the SMO ? And inter- ethnic conflict . Suppose we  save 5% Russians in a region , from 95% Ukrainians is justified in launching an offensive that will kill many more than the 5% that we save , is this worth it ? Or  in a region like kharkiv , launching an offensive that will kill many less than the 25% ? But will displace many more Ukrainians than Russians saved ? It is the greatest benefit ( survival ) of the greatest number .

Again where are you getting 25% for Kharkov, the last census was 44% for the region? And you are also discounting the fact that the authorities and Bandaris supporters treat the Russians like crap and abuse them.

All these proposals with deportations based on nationality do not have any positive outcome. Russian Russian the idea of the Russian world is that it is possible to preserve national identity, being a part of the Russian civilization. Tatarstan has been Russian territories for almost half a thousand years, and Tatar culture still exists there.

The situation in Tataristan is not antagonistic . But in Ukraine it is . I have found different statistics for demographics . Is Wiki reliable ? If so then Kharkiv and Mykolayev should be incorporated  . Evacuations are for most , the only option . The ten  million have done so , a  few more , may have to , in near future .


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#:~:text=At the beginning of the 20th century the,%2845.64%25%29%2C Yalta %2866.17%25%29%2C Kerch %2857.8%25%29%2C Sevastopol %2863.46%25%29.


According to a 2004 public opinion poll by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology, the number of people using Russian language in their homes considerably exceeds the number of those who declared Russian as their native language in the census. According to the survey, Russian is used at home by 43–46% of the population of the country (in other words a similar proportion to Ukrainian) and Russophones make a majority of the population in Eastern and Southern regions of Ukraine:[30]

Autonomous Republic of Crimea — 97% of the population
Dnipropetrovsk Oblast — 72%
Donetsk Oblast — 93%
Luhansk Oblast — 89%
Zaporizhia Oblast — 81%
Odessa Oblast — 85%
Kharkiv Oblast — 74%
Mykolaiv Oblast — 66%

ALAMO wrote:

On the other hand, a young Ukrainian couple works for me, and they are both from Charkov. Both are Russian speakers, still, zombified Ukros if we consider the political stance.
One can be Ukrainian speaking Russkie, while the other can be a Russian speaking Ukr. As easy as that.

I agree. But, these are young people that had been poisoned with bs all their grown up life. I can understand that. Especially last 8 years situation was crazy. I also know people like that here in US. Woman from Gorlovka, very pro-Ukrainian and her parents are pro-Russian. I even think her brother or first cousin fought on the side of DNR. She doesn't even speak Ukrainian.

It just means that those people lack common sense then. Brainwashing is one thing, not seeing the trees from the Forrest is another.

West is a master in long term "soft" brainwashing and narative creation through NGOs and government agencies. In every country of post Cold war SU they did it with the help of nationalists.
When you were fed with shit whole your life, your world and reasoning will look very different.

ALAMO wrote:It is as you described. Both are around 30, so they don't know any other stances rather than "independent" Ukraine.
Those poor souls really believe the crap they have been provided with.
Sad.

A few years ago I briefly spoke (in Italy) with an Ucrainian from Lvov that did not even know that Lvov has been in the same country as Kiev only since the last 80years or so. She either ignored completely something like 7 or 8 centuries of history, and she is not the only one.

caveat emptor wrote:West is a master in long term "soft" brainwashing and narative creation through NGOs and government agencies. In every country of post Cold war SU they did it with the help of nationalists.
When you were fed with shit whole your life, your world and reasoning will look very different.

I'm born and raised in Canada.  Meaning my education is heavy propaganda.

That said, I know most are idiots so I'm not surprised.

Sorry if it's happened before. I don't have time to read the topic about the special operation.


According to this document, only the Armed Forces of Ukraine (not including other law enforcement agencies of Ukraine) counted 76,640 KIA

https://t.me/intelslava/36064
Last known video of train that was hit in Chaplino.
And two obituaries. Both from Lvov. One contract soldier, other one took part in war in Donbass, probably called up again from reserves.
Interesting thing that both obituaries are in Russian.

caveat emptor wrote:
And two obituaries. Both from Lvov. One contract soldier, other one took part in war in Donbass, probably called up again from reserves.
Interesting thing that both obituaries are in Russian.

Every time I see something like this, it's wild. Could Soviet citizens who gave birth to their sons in the seventies imagine that their children would fight on the side of neo-Nazis and die from a Russian missile hit?
If someone had said something like that in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1977, he would probably have been considered a violent psycho and placed in a mental hospital for treatment.

flamming_python wrote:Bullshit artists

Leaking it on purpose to make it look like the real deal, because they know how ridiculous the official numbers appear

But like I said before. A lot more people than just that missing. Which is not to say they're all dead. Probably a lot bugged off or sneaked away first chance they had

This looks quite plausible, given that the Armed Forces of Ukraine make up about half of the number of law enforcement agencies of Ukraine involved in the battles. Thus, KIA's total losses are probably 120-150 thousand.