Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

Podlodka77 wrote:Papadragon, I assume you have Telegram installed, so don't fart about how the medium is "too long"...

I do not use Telegram because I do not want to feed it my smartphone number. Other people might have similar concerns. There is no good reason for this requirement by Telegram, Facebook, WhatsApp, Google, etc except for data harvesting including personal identification.

lancelot wrote:

ucmvulcan wrote:... Russia has tens of thousands and a fairly large military industrial capacity, I'd be very surprised if Russia ran out of missiles any time in my lifetime.  Like I said, our media lives in fantasy land:

Lets see:

March, Russia is out of rockets
April, Russians seen updating T-72s, they are out of tanks (funny, I remember hearing of the tens of thousands of tanks parked in boneyards and tank parts all across Russia from the Cold War)
May, Russia is out of money as sanctions. . . .
June, Russians out of men
July, Russia is out of oil, yes, John McCain's gas station with nuclear weapons is out of gas). No seriously, why are you laughing? This was on American news media
August, Russia may still have tanks but their main problem is going to be rounds and barrels
September, Russia is out of airplanes and drones
...

Russia is building Su-34, Su-30, Su-35, airplanes faster than they are losing them. The main issue is the helicopters and the Su-25.
The Su-34 also needs to gets its sensors upgraded so it can detect and track ground targets from larger distances. A new generation of surface attack missiles needs to be produced as well. Had they done that then pilots would not need to do those low altitude passes with iron bombs as much and risk their aircraft.

Low-altitude attack runs minimize the threat of radar detection and engagement by anti-air missile systems

Low-passes with iron bombs make perfect sense, and would be one of the quickest way to take out some tactical target outside the range of artillery.
Cruise missiles need a precise location and can't be used against anything with mobility, while suicide drones might not have the range or the payload.

Those surface attack missiles, in order to replace low-pass iron bomb attacks, would need to have the ability to be launched at very low altitudes, while combining that with high-speed, an ability to loiter for a little while over the final destination to identify targets, and a respectable payload.
Basically you need a drone not a missile. Until someone designs one with those characteristics, they'll just continue to use fighter and fighter-bombers with iron bombs.

I think the whole rationale of Russia running out of cruise missiles and fuel is based on poor Western intelligence. And the worst thing is these Western politicians still have not learned after all this time and continue saying the same bullshit. I heard Ukraine claiming Russia had limited stocks of cruise missiles. And the EU claiming Russia would run out of diesel. This was based on facts. Ukraine used to produce the engines for the cruise missiles, and the catalyst used to refine diesel used to be imported from the EU. They thought with the sanctions they could cut Russia access to these things. But the thing is Russia produced its own substitutes. Both for the cruise missile engines and the catalyst material. So Western intel were obviously wrong on both counts but they continue in denial.

As for the "chips out of washing machines" I think this was a claim made by someone at ASML which spun out of all proportion. The person from ASML was basically saying the chips the policians think they can ban Russia access to to make these weapon systems are so common you can find them in cheap consumer products like washing machines and that it is pointless to try to ban sales of them. They can be easily smuggled since they are produced in the many millions and you can divert some without anyone noticing. You can easily smuggle thousands to make weapons. But EU and Ukrainian politicians have spun that out of all proportion really.

I think Western intelligence and military intelligence is just fine and they know how to do their jobs. They know what models of cruise missiles Russia has in its inventory and where they are manufactured. They know what companies in Russia manufacture microchips and electronics. I mean that stuff is basically public domain info anyway.
There's no way Western intelligence in all honesty came up with the line about the Russian military stealing washing machines to get at their microchips, that was parroted by Western politicians. That claptrap came from Kiev.

The issue is more that said Western politicians have bought too deeply into Zelensky's coke-trail and media spin, and have persuaded themselves of their own propaganda cliches about Russia.
Even that what they don't believe, they still will infallibly re-translate back to their own populations, because it's in their interests to keep stringing public opinion along with promises of a swift coming victory over Russia.

Mind you, it is possible that Russia will in fact be using chips out of appliances, since China and Vietnam are typically the dumping grounds of the world's consumer electronics. Both those countries rip the chips out of old appliances that were sent to the trash and resell them, there is also a lot of counterfeiting going on with relabeling of old chips, these chips show up in the US in supposedly reputable vendors stock. So I would not be surprised if Russia also ended up with some chips like that. But it will not be Russia removing the chips out of appliances that is for sure. It will be someone in China or Vietnam.

It's not possible at all. Russia has the capacity to make its own microchips of sufficient sophistication for military use, not to mention its own PCBs, capacitors, diodes and other things.
I mean you can make your PCBs at home if you want, I'm planning to do so myself for a side-project. All you really need is a copper plate, some Ferric chloride solution, a clothes iron, adhesive paper and a drill (although in industry they're produced by laser-cutting). The capacitors you find most often in consumer electronics, the chunky tubes on a pair of metal legs, are in their basic form basically made up of alternating strips of aluminum foil and paper rolled up into a cylinder and bathed in an electrolyte solution.
The more efficient, naturally, your microchip, PCB, capacitor, other electronic components, etc... are, the more complicated the steps and the more precise the production technology for their manufacture has to be. Ditto if you want to use miniaturized SMD components. But for military use you don't need the most efficient components, just reliable and durable ones.

GarryB wrote:The first two posts of this thread included conversations... I have now edited them to show users what they should look like... I should not have to do this... I will not continue to do this.

FPs first post I removed several other comments and left the one he was replying to because it was the first post in this thread and leaving that post allows you to see what he is talking about without having to open the previous thread. The next response by Limb however did not have to repeat the entire conversation as it was a reply to the post directly above it.

Neither poster knew this was going to become a new thread (thanks George) so I am editing instead of banning.

I looked it up and there might be a way of doing things a smarter way without banning anyone

https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2141992

Apparently the phpBB framework this forum uses has a max. setting for the amount of nested quotations of text you can have. If you find it, set it to 1 and then quoting entire conversations shouldn't happen for anyone anymore.

Erk wrote:

nomadski wrote:
I am no chip expert , but don't they get fried by EMP ? How do we protect against that ? Do weapons have secondary guidance , that are jam- proof ? Do cruise have INS that could kick in a few kilometres away from target , when GPS is jammed ? Error should be minimal . Or drone swarm sent in advance with cheap internal guidance  and cruise arriving later  , riding on GPS , then sending corrective signal to drones ? then everyone diving in , on INS ? Saving also on chips . The offensive coming up , I think best to have one front , instead of three or more . Makes sure of victory and the important initial  psychological factor . A long armed advance to River  ,  with River providing second arm of pincer ? You only need one knife to cut a Cake to many pieces .

Not really, there are no practical EMP weapons you could use on a battlefield.

Lightning can do EMP, but the most common EMP is from a nuke going off called NEMP.

Well there are the consistent rumours/reports of EMP rounds being in development for at least the Koalitsiya

There is a considerable amount of theory behind it
https://www.russiadefence.net/t3442p25-russian-emp-weapons#281288

Also there were reports about anti-air EMP warheads under development for TOR missiles