Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

Example is AC-130 which is such a stupid concept that works because its used inside a doctrine. If there is any sort of normal AA around, AC-130 is parked 5000 miles away.

Quite a few AC-130s and older versions of the gunship type have been shot down with MANPADS... they are horribly vulnerable...

The potential skirmish with NATO is going to look way different than this Russo-Ukrainian land war.

Russia needs a zero tolerance policy against HATO because they ignore red lines and escalate as a natural response to anything and nothing.

Russia won't need tactical nukes against NATO

Ukraine has much greater manpower, and Russia is handling Ukraine with a fraction of the force size it would use against NATO

What I am saying is that if Poland enters the Ukraine or threatens Kaliningrad... if Russia tries a balanced and measured response the US and other HATO countries will see that as weakness and send in other military forces into the Ukraine to protect the western parts of the country, perhaps including British troops or French or US or German or a mixed force... Russia could demand they leave or be attacked directly, but nuking them would send a clearer message... who cares about the west of the Ukraine?

It is probably going to be the neutral broken portion... I suspect the west continues to support Kiev expecting Russia would never try to occupy that area so either Poland or Romania is going to get a piece of it.

Russia has no need for nukes, NATO if anything would resort to first nuclear use after losing planes as S400 kills those f16, f18, and f35

Well someone is going to use them, and it might as well be Russia...

If Russia had done nothing at all and let Kiev attack on the 8th of March 2022 who knows what sort of damage they might have inflicted.... they might have launched an all out strike on the Black Sea fleet and actually done some real damage.

Don't hold back and wait for an attack... if you know it is coming eventually then hitting them first and hard might mean the future attack might never come or be greatly weakened from the damage you did.

Best to be prepared for doomsday scenarios, but I don’t see why NATO would involve themselves directly at this point.

They have told their people that Russia is weak and is losing... what happens when they are wrong... because they are never wrong.

It will take a change in government in the US to end this conflict... it is Bidens war... he has been driving it for a decade... look at the footprints:

Nato aircraft will probably fire at Russia and use the alleged Ukraine F-16's as an excuse. But if Russia attacks anything in Poland in return , they will enact article 5 and jump into the war.

They will try to shoot at Russians but they are not looking for any excuse to get directly involved... if that was the case they would already have engineered that.

The US embassy and everything. Hitting the US embassy inside Ukraine is still not the act of war that hitting anything in Poland is.

The US embassy is patently not an embassy... and because of this is a legitimate target that should have been hit a long time ago.

Russia can say they were using old maps and thought it was something else because of all the communications and other things that would not be expected at a legitimate embassy...

That has been the story of the whole war and because of Putins lack of response, he is basically getting the Nato war to take Crimea that he wanted to avoid 10 years from now, today. This war was started to avoid that scenario and he's basically getting that today.

This conflict is bleeding the west dry and the US is so keen to shift focus to Taiwan and China... if it wasn't costing Russian soldiers and civilians their lives it would be genius, but as it is it is probably still the best course of action to take for the moment.

Doing the counter offensive during the Nato exercise has probably been the plan all along.

At the end of the day for Russia it does not really matter... when the counter offensive starts... crush it as brutally and quickly as possible and then decide whether to go on the offensive yourself or try something different.

Give him some space, one does not become a drama queen with no practice, you know.

Everyone should be allowed to give their opinion and discuss with others... who can honestly say they know exactly what is going to happen... because I doubt even Zelensky or Biden or Putin even know.

People, if you think that the Russians will allow the demolition of buildings in Moscow or St. Peterburg, then you are very ridiculous.

The video evidence is buildings being demolished in the US of A...

Poland has decided to back down from supplying Ukraine F-16s

They decided they don't have enough but other F-16 users should donate theirs they say.... hahaha...

Just curious, what does hitting the US embassy in Kiev achieve for the Russians?

They have several thousand people working there... it is probably the Kiev government in exile in a place they think the Russians wont attack and is probably what is actually running the country and the war.

Has nothing to do with being a pussy, and rather not wishing nuclear death upon the world but hey.....you know, I guess if the lives of billions of innocents of civilians mean nothing for you to make a "statement" well sure go ahead.

The wests policy of continual escalation can only lead to the eventual use of nuclear weapons because the west is too powerful and too dominant according to all the western news media to lose or to even back down.

Thousands of innocent people have been getting killed in that place for the best part of the last decade and the west didn't give a shit so why should they care about the use of nuclear weapons?

Frankly, Russia will never ever ever ever ever ever attack NATO directly, it because that would force wartime economies and direct conflict and russia doesn't have the manpower for that period.

And that is why they have to, because the west thinks they never will and can just escalate forever till Russia gives up... you know... like they did at Stalingrad and Leningrad and Kursk...

Attacking NATO would be an absolutely idiotic thing to do, better for the russians if they just keep it how it is, let NATO supply keiv with peacetime economies that aren't meant to build up massive quantities of weapons quickly and simply never pull nato forces into the fight.

Yes, wait for the killer bees to come to you and don't go looking for the hives... that would suit the west just perfectly... but why would Russia want to play that stupid game?

The country has been run out of the US embassy since 2014. If you really want to throw a wrench into the daily goings of the regime in Kiev, you vaporize the US and British embassies

They probably are the government and be running the war too...

You have been obsessed with the destruction of the American embassy in Kiev for months.... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
If by any chance there is a terrorist attack on the American embassy in Kiev, we will know that Backman is involved...

He is not wrong... if Russia eventually decides to decapitate the Kiev government a couple of Kh-32s and Kinzhals hitting the US embassy would probably get the job done... for the same reason Orc HQs are so often found in schools and hospitals and Churches.

hmm attacking US embassy could be in Libya but then whos to bomb? as for Kiev's embassy - yes country is run bey US but bombing "edge server" doesn't kill cloud. I mean decision makers on local level perhaps are in Kiev, surely not most important tones and giving "go". That's why bombing intel or AAD bunkers is much better strategy.

They will think the US embassy is the only safe place in Kiev, which is why Russia should hit it hard.

All weapons systems designed to target and destroy enemy nuclear and command capability in a massive first strike.

Actually Poseidon and Thunderbird are designed to hit after both sides have attacked each other.... it is the west that plans for a first strike with the hope they get most f their nuclear weapon potential and can use ABM systems to survive the reduced response attack.

Um buddy, I guess you do not know this but attacks on an Embassy are considered attacks on the country itself and it is legally recognized any attack on an Embassy is a defacto declaration of war.

Except when you claim you are using old maps...

Granted the country attacked can decide what to do from that point but there is a reason countries do not attack each other embassies.

Your country does attack embassies...

I think they would almost have to pull at least 2 or 3 Gs to assure a clean release at M2.6. But yeah it could have tiny pop out wings and it should fly a loooong way. quite cheap and v accurate. 1.5T would be utterly devastating and the MIG 31 could deliver 6 hammer blows per flight.

The wing and belly weapon points on the MiG-31 contain pneumatic arms for the R-33 heavy missiles they normally carry and those arms throw the weapon down away from the aircraft to ensure they get clear before their rocket motors light up and accelerate the missiles away from the aircraft.

Most likely they would try a zoom climb to toss release the bombs for max reach and speed, but a glide kit modified for such conditions could remain folded and low drag for the initial portion of the flight and then the wings could deploy in a swept form for the supersonic portion of the flight at very high altitude and high speed to maintain altitude and speed as much as possible and as it slows down the wings could sweep further to be less swept and more straight for better lift to maximise flight speed and delivery range.

Kiev air defenses getting a nice big smack down, which then responds by hitting its own buildings with a failed response

morally I agree with you, luckily Russian leadership calculates cold headed their decisions

My real point is that those complaining that this war will go on for ten years and become a terrorist war that Russia can never win, well they have options they have not used yet to break the other side that they can use if things start to go bad for them... there will be plenty of targets they have not gone after because they are not evil like the west who would have gone full retard on the first night.

but why to even consider MiG-25?! spare parts, life cycle over or almost over , lack of mechanics or pilots? Su-34 is in serial production and there are mechanics and pilots trained, a modern plane. 8tons of payload.

The MiG-25RB was a high speed high altitude bomber and the MiG-31BM had tests in that direction too where high speed high altitude release of bombs specially designed to be released at mach 2 plus speeds and high altitudes to cover large distances and hit area targets... to be clear they weren't that accurate, so targets like Oil storage sites and fuel dumps and ammo dumps and large warehouses and factories would be targets but certainly not bridges or point targets... but now with modern glide kits adding guidance with modifications for height and speed of release could make it an excellent stand off weapon system, but the MiG-25RBs are gone... and are not coming back... their engines are no longer in production... you would need to use MiG-31s instead.

Imagine the potential ear damage from firing from this position

And two targets overlapping so a good burst of fire could kill both of them...

If he is really sick of the terrorism BS from Zelensky maybe he thinks it is time to change... get rid of Zelensky and also the US embassy all at once... they have the weapons proven able to get through and penetrate deeply buried defences... and they don't seem to be running out of such weapons any time soon.

Terrorist war you win beheading regime first.

Killing off the primary politicians in Kiev is step one... it is OK because anyone Russia could deal with has already been banned from elections so the guys they kill are nazis or work with nazis.

You cannot do it without bombing Washington nor London or New Zealand

Biden wont get reelected and London is irrelevant.

(where US oligarchs prepared bunkers to survive nuclear war

The ones coming here didn't do their homework properly.... if they did their due dilligence and watched a documentary about the locals called "Once were Warriors" they would find somewhere else to hide... some of the locals would like white meat in WWIII...

Bombing embassy is PR action nothing really changing military situation.

The US embassy has thousands of employees and is probably running the country... taking it out would cripple Kievs war effort and decentralise it to the point where the Ukrainian forces would collapse and the Russians could send in a mopping up force to deal with most of them.

However bombing Kiev intel bunker or Lvov aad coordination bunker actually eliminated a great deal embassy workers anyway

Other similar targets remain and require being hit.

again but why Russian's should invest in old tech when there is Grom with up to 100km range?! if you need something longer then CM would be better or Iskander (or Iranian missile) . Both Groms and Su-34 are in mass production.

Grom has a less than 500kg warhead in the 120km range version and about a 700kg warhead in the 60km all bomb model... the MiG-31 can deliver 1.5 ton bombs from altitudes and speeds that Groms are not released from and probably couldn't handle being released from, which suggests they could reach much greater ranges while being unpowered but also guided... and the kinetic energy of such bombs would be multiplied several times because of the speed and altitude of release when stand off range is not so critical.

It would be a relatively cheap way to hit 6 strong targets or one strong target multiple times with a very powerful munition.

wait for Hunter crackhead to be there ok?

Call a meeting 3 stories down where it is "safe" and invite all the American politicians kids and also Boris Johnson and the whole Rada because it is such an important occasion...

stop with this homophobic remarks, will ya? dont you see this is Ukro Pride Parade preparation?

Actually it reminded me of Lord Blackadder when he was insulting Lord Percy... "he rides a horse rather less well than another horse would..."

gunship democracy wrote:yes they can but I don't think there will be any non nuclear confrontation between NATO and Russia. There simply wont be time to switch to war economy like in wwII

not sure where you are taking your data from? FIRE based economy doesn't mean there are no industrial base or specialists. Are you suggesting that there are no cars, ships, machine tooling or robots manufactured? compare to Russian output.

not yet but as covid proved this can be overcomed.

if population will be mobilized then who is going to produce equipment? Mind NATO population si 3-4times size of Russia's one...

not sure how long have you been living in the USA but do you have any numbers ?

Unlike you (being too optimistic to see) I believe that NATO is a serious threat to Russia otherwise why Russian govt were so prudent and cautious with actions? Russian army never said to my knowledge that NATO is no danger.

There is time to switch to war economy, in fact Russia is doing so already ramping production of all weapons across the board, while maintain low inflation for civilian life - it means nuclear war will not be a first resort, a conventional war is very possible

A FIRE based economy like the US has, means major loss of industrial production, we talk about Norfolk and Huntington Ingalls being the last vestiges of the industrial powerhouse the US was in ww2, they have no way to regain this capability in the next 20 years without reforming the economy, and moving 70% of the service based economy (waiters, salespeople, white collar , back into manufacturing) -

military recruiting is low , you cannot teach welders, fitters, CNC operators, painters, electricians in 10 years, on an industrial scale, you need will and desire of the populace to do this, you cannot do it when your elite is pushing transhuman agenda either, as a whole its beyond reform, it's a top down change of politics, mentality and culture, the west undergoes this process since 1970s/80s , you cannot reverse 40 years of liberalization and demoralization in 10 or even 20 years, the cultural state of Russia on the other hand, breeds a whole other approach to mobilization -

case in point Russia mobilized 300,000 men in less than 6 months, with barely any oppostion, the population will go to war without a question asked and with rigid social structure, it's a different mindset

So Russians have more people who are willing to tolerate what a total war means, then the west has

Look at LIMA tank factory, the loss of personnel means loss in production, building a tesla or a hyundai is not the same as assembling complex transmissions, engines, armor, chassis and suspensions, this knowledge is gone, the young guys in USA can barely perform oil changes on LAV-25, let alone operate a steel plant

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Russian mobilization resulted not only in military personnel, but all factories are swelling with workers,

You think EU or US civilians receiving stipends and welfare will go work for a sweatshop? They barely have people signing up for white collar jobs with 60+ hour work weeks, and you think they will stand in a tank factory , for 12 hour shifts?

NATO population is mostly services based, liberal, and opposed to meaningfully taking any action to stop the decline of their states

They are not ready for a war with Russia

As I said, Poland and Ukraine represent the states most akin to a 1940s western state, and Ukraine was devastated in total war, against a peacetime Russia

A NATO - Russia war would result in catastrophy for the west, our guys who are 20-30 years of age, would eat an American 20 year old, or a European one

It's mindset, culture, and mobilization potential

Which neither US, french, Canada, Germans, Swedes, Italians, or any other western state in NATO have

Their soldiers mourn 1 guy lost in a Platoon and go into PTSD mode, ours lose whole Squads and companies and are barely moved

The Ukrainians are like us, and thats why mobilization in both countries was possible - look at western mercenaries , they rotate after 1 month in Kharkov

Russian and Ukrainian troops are serving upwards of 6 months without rotation in Bakhmut, Ugledar, Mariupol, and other battles

There is no comparison, and that is why Poland and Ukraine are the real fighting core of NATO

The push for also automation in Russian MIC has resulted in less need for tons of people to do same job. So they are able to churn out more without hurting civil economy as the Civil economy is still rather strong in manpower and able to produce the Civil goods that's needed.

I guess what also helps is that the defense companies have expanded into Civil industry so they get even more money.

sepheronx wrote:
The push for also automation in Russian MIC has resulted in less need for tons of people to do same job. So they are able to churn out more without hurting civil economy as the Civil economy is still rather strong in manpower and able to produce the Civil goods that's needed.

I guess what also helps is that the defense companies have expanded into Civil industry so they get even more money

Automation plays a big role, but there are guys coming into the workforce who are able to obtain trade jobs out of school and get paid well and who are working long shifts

The naval sector leaves a lot to be desired, but the willingness of the population to get to work is there, and the naval sector will improve when the circumstance demands it, just like tanks, missiles, drones, jets are demanded now and are pumped out same as Agricultural products, and civilian replacements for western business demanded it

And not only, if your name is called in a draft, it is a duty which must be performed - the number of guys who fled to Georgia or Turkey are there, but I doubt any other state with the exception of middle eastern cultures , would be able to mobilize on the scale of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhs and other states is very different

Indians, Chinese,  Pakistanis would also do so, and those cultures have vertical hierarchies with rigid social structures as well, and the liberal ideology does not have fertile ground to spread there

But I am happy Russia has rejected it, and come together as a stronger society

Russians harness slowly, but drive fast

Or slowly, then suddenly

As for the EU Or US? good luck getting those kids to work at Raytheon, Boeing, or Norfolk, or to sign up for the military - there's no patriotism there, and the elite is so disconnected from the average person, they still think that sex changes and black representation is more important than Mechanical Engineering, Physics, or Math

Actually , it's not a lack of interest, it is that those things are racist , those countries have a lot to solve before going to war with Russia

I think the Swedes are figuring out if it is okay to have 2 dads