Russian Navy: Status and News #6

If Russia didn't have nuclear weapons now, the West would have attacked it a long time ago, so I don't think it's a problem for them to lose 5, 10 or 30% of their planes. Russian resources are in their heads.
They are trying to destabilize Russia in this way and through Ukroshitstan.
In the West, they are not afraid of either the Sukhoi aircraft, the S-400 or the Iskander, since the gain (resources) would be far greater than the spent military material and the dead NATO personnel.
Their problem is that they do not have a ground army to conquer Russia in a land war, while in a conventional war they could plow Russian cities with aviation and with strikes from ships and submarines.
And that is the greatest luck, the West has no army and manpower to march towards Russia.
As poor and miserable as the NATO pact is and incapable of ground warfare, even Douglas McGregor will tell you "we Americans are an air and sea power".
And they are. The Russian Air Force is a dwarf compared to NATO air forces.
And in order for the Russians not to experience Moscow looking like Stalingrad in WW2, in a conventional war with NATO and from air and naval strikes, Russia has nuclear weapons.

Podlodka77 wrote:
I will again express my opinion that in the event that Russia captures Kharkov, Odessa, Nikolaev and even Zaporozhye, a good part of the population would leave those cities.
Nobody needs a half-empty city, and Russia does not have a very positive birth rate to compensate for the loss of population.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick.  The strategic imperative here is to deny US/NATO access to Ukrainian territory and permanently remove a source of existential threat.  Conditions in post-Kiev regime Ukraine is of secondary concern.  Break the Kiev regime and eradicate the bandera ideology. Demilitarise and de-nazify. Absorb the Russian-speaking areas while encouraging the Ukie true-believers to fck off to (a) Galicia and discover that they are hated and despised by their "countrymen", or (b) Eurotrashland where they will be less popular than 3rd world muslims.  Establish a land-locked rump Ukraine as a Russian-backed protectorate governed by hand-selected Pro-Russia East Ukrainians, and officially disown the bandera heartland.  The locals can squabble over shitholes like Lvov, and when the likes of Romania, Hungary and Poland try their luck at recovering their "lost" territories then they will be able to enjoy the gift that keeps on giving as bandera-hostility is transferred to them

It would be a monumental mistake to be satisfied with the currently liberated parts of Novorossiya. Unless the bulk of Ukraine circa-2022 is reclaimed as part of the Russian civilisational space it will remain a festering wound, ripe for future re-infection by Western globalists and their militarist assets.  The cancer must be cut out and its all traces eradicated, the patient given time to heal, and eternal vigilance mustered to guard against any sign of return of the cancer recurring.

Big Gazza,

Thanks for the message, but people are shit and it's hard to create a normal entity from this freak UA.
It's possible that I'm wrong about something I wrote, but that's my opinion.
I wrote that the main problem in the UA is that this monstrous creation has been outside the composition of the Russian state for 106 years. Not to go back, you probably already know who I blame the most for that - the red ones.

And while I agree that the NATO pact must not enter the territory of Ukroshitstan, I am not in favor of trying to assimilate the territories and especially the people who were disfigured by the leadership of the Soviet state, and ESPECIALLY during the period of independence and disintegration of that state from 1991.
You can get a conflict but you can't change a good part of the people in UA.
That Western Ukroshitstan was the biggest mistake made by Stalin by annexing it. They made her a model for the entire UA.
We Serbs also tried to live with our "brothers" Croats, so we know how that went. For them, we are gypsies, Turks, and whatever they call us. Thus, a huge number of Ukroshitstanians consider Russians to be an inferior race. Once evil has crept into a people, it is difficult to change it.

If you take Odessa and Kharkov, again on the right bank of the Dnieper you have Poltava, Sumy and Chernigov. After all, the left bank of the Dnieper and the nearest cities like Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk are not far from the Russian border, that is, a few hundred kilometers. Therefore, Russia would have to physically occupy more than three quarters of Ukroshitstan in order to prevent the entry of the AU into the NATO pact.
I see the "cheapest" solution in the conflict as it is, that is, the exhaustion of AFU and the complete destruction of the energy sector. Their industry was miserable and nonexistent anyway, so there aren't many worthwhile goals left.

I still don't see any signs of massive uprisings of the people in the UA, and that's not easy because that people has two snakes against them; the Nazi government in Kiev and the NAZI/NATO Pact.
I don't like the idea of ​​marching to Odessa, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk because I know that means a lot of dead Russian soldiers.
I think that the Russians are all the time waiting for the West to make a mistake, that is, to see if the West wants a direct conflict with Russia or not.

The best solution is for the AU to capitulate and accept Russian military bases where Russia determines.

For some, a ship only starts to be considered a ship when it displaces 2000 tons and more...

So the projects 21631 are the most active units in the SMO. They inflict massive damage on the enemy. Operate in a very heavily NATO-monitored sea area and have losses of: 0 in words ZERO!

Give this ship another PanzirM or finally better TorM2 and something to track down submarines, maybe the new larger improved Projects 21631 class, and Russia has a new Baracuda class. Survivable and with massive damage spot special for the enemy.

How can you just leave this ship so far away? Is that Arrogant? Transfiguration? This ship is like a Su-25. Small but annoying like a wasp in the summer.

The naval TOR is a command guided missile that is relatively small and cheap... put it on a ship and connect it up with massive AESA radars and you have a precision guided missile that is very accurate and very cheap and will work in rain and snow and fog... you could put vertical launch bins all over the deck of any ship big or small, and they could hit threats coming from any direction because they are vertically launched... and cheap.

The land based TOR system had an expensive 3D search radar and an expensive tracking radar that could guide multiple missiles towards multiple targets at one time... it was and is an excellent system that has no foreign analogues (put that in for PD...  ).

The most important thing is that the radars is where all the money goes and they get reused over and over... the missiles are relatively simple and cheap and if they use them at sea and on land you can make them in enormous numbers which is a good feature of any missile.

Having such a system would also encourage the use of AESA radars on smaller vessels which will immensely improve their sensor capacity and defence from a range of threats.

Backup EO sights can be used for the missiles back up optical guidance mode which also uses auto tracking and is very effective, and of course their guns in 30mm and 57mm...

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that work is being completed on reassigning the fleets and the Caspian Flotilla directly to the Commander-in-chief of the Navy.

"The work on reassigning the fleets and the Caspian Flotilla directly to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy is being completed. This will make it possible to manage the fleet and fleets more effectively," Shoigu said during a meeting of the board of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

It will also allow the introduction of unified approaches to the planning of the use and training of naval groups in modern conditions.

In addition, Sergei Shoigu recalled that during the exercises "Finval-2023" the use of the forces of the Pacific Fleet to protect the Northern Sea Route was worked out.

Shoigu also noted that Russian ships made more than 50 trips to deter the NATO Navy in the World Ocean in 2023.

NOTE: this is part of the new revised Military Districts underway. Command of the individual Fleets will revert back to the Naval High Command from being under command of the Military Districts they were located in.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/202311211414-LiSrL.html

The Fleets are like Mini-Districts of their own.

You normally reorganise things because you want to start using them more often...

News of the day:
During the next 1 day military acceptance event scheduled for the first 10 days of December, the following ships will be commissioned into the Navy:

Submarines:

- Emparator ALexander III (Borey 2 class)
- Krasnoyark (Yasen M class)
- Mozhaisk (Kilo class)
- Kronshtadt (Lada class)

Surface ships:

- Burya (Karakurt class)
- Naro-Fominsk (Buyan M class)
- Lev Chernavin (Alexandrit class)

https://iz.ru/1608813/andrei-krasnobaev-bogdan-stepovoi-roman-kretcul/flagi-vverkh-kakie-novye-podlodki-i-raketnye-korabli-poluchit-vmf

The four fleets and the Caspian Flotilla of the Russian Navy returned to the command of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov. Izvestia sources reported this on December 1.

“From today, the fleets report directly to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy,” one of the interlocutors confirmed.

Before this, the Baltic, Black Sea and Pacific fleets, together with the Caspian flotilla, were subordinate to the corresponding military districts, and the Northern Fleet (SF) had the status of a military district and was a joint strategic command (USC).

Moreover, sources reported that the Air Force (VVS), the air defense system of Russia and the ground forces located in the area of ​​​​responsibility of the Northern Fleet in four regions of the north of the country will be transferred to the Leningrad Military District (LMD), which is located at the stage of formation.

According to the decree of Russian President Vladimir Putin dated December 21, 2020, from March 1, 2024, the Northern Fleet will be deprived of the status of an interservice USC. The decision of the head of state also implies the direct subordination of the fleets and the Caspian flotilla to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy.

https://iz-ru.translate.goog/1614232/2023-12-01/chetyre-flota-i-kaspiiskaia-flotiliia-vernulis-v-podchinenie-glavkomu-vmf?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

The Commander of the Pacific Fleet, Admiral Viktor Liina, opened a new academic year in the 175th separate Marine Engineering Regiment, deployed to full strength from December 1, 2023.

During the rally, Admiral Liina noted that the importance of the regiment for the Pacific Fleet cannot be overestimated, since marine engineers solve problems in several environments, including on land and in water.

As part of the reformation of the regiment, the number of personnel was increased, and the fleet of military and special engineering equipment was replenished to the planned staff, including at the expense of new models.

Summing up the results of the last academic year, Viktor Liina said that the Pacific Fleet completed the year successfully, all the assigned tasks of combat and operational training were completed with high quality.

"In the new academic year, we face no less difficult tasks," the commander of the Pacific Fleet said during the rally. – The ships and submarines of the fleet will continue to perform the tasks of combat service and combat duty. We will have to continue the development of the latest ships and weapons that have entered the fleet," Admiral Liina summed up.

https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12488673@egNews

NOTE: this is the 4th Marine Engineering Regiment formed. The Northern, Baltic and Black Sea Fleets have all formed such an unit.

franco wrote:
Moreover, sources reported that the Air Force (VVS), the air defense system of Russia and the ground forces located in the area of ​​​​responsibility of the Northern Fleet in four regions of the north of the country will be transferred to the Leningrad Military District (LMD), which is located at the stage of formation.
_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

This means that Monchegorsk regiment, 1º and 3º PVO Divisions and the 14th Army Corps will be transfered to new Leningrad Military District

Of course a new Air and Air Defence Army with MiG-31 and S-400 is necesary for Leningrad Military District, in adition to Su-35 of Besovets figther regiment and 2º Division PVO

I wonder if MiG-31´s of Kamchatka will also be tranferred to the VKS of East MD


The North Fleet will need new Su-30SM2 and perhaps Su-34 or at least Su-24M for the moment

The 22nd Army Corps has gone from Black Sea Fleet command to the new 18th Combined Arms Army. Wonder where the 11th Army Corps and 44th Air Defense division in Kaliningrad end up under?

franco wrote:The 22nd Army Corps has gone from Black Sea Fleet command to the new 18th Combined Arms Army. Wonder where the 11th Army Corps and 44th Air Defense division in Kaliningrad  end up under?

I am not sure if the 22 Army Corps was part of the Black Sea Fleet, since there was no JSC there like in the other regions with fleets and the regiments of the 27 SAD in Belbek, Simferopol and Dzhankoy are from the VKS, the same that the 31st Air Defense Division
In the Northern, Pacific and Baltic Fleets there are Air Defense fighters in the Navy (Monchegorsk, Yelizovo and Kaliningrad) and there is a Joint Command that groups fighters, air defense missiles, ground forces and the fleet in a single command. , but that didn't happen in Crimea

In any case, an isolated MiG-31 squadron in the Pacific and Northern fleets does not make much sense, which is why the regiments must be rebuilt with 2 MiG-31 squadrons and possibly another Su-35 squadron and transferred to the VKS.
In fact, the Pacific Fleet did not want this MiG-31 squadron to have to defend 3000 kilometers from the south of the Kuriles to the Bering Strait and further north.
The logical thing is that this task will be carried out by the VKS with more resources and the Pacific Fleet will receive a Su-30SM regiment to protect the seas of Japan and Ojostk, which could be based in Sakhalin....



The case of Kaliningrad is different, it is an isolated territory from continental Russia and in 1998 a JSC was created in Kaliningrad, transferring the 689th fighter regiment under the control of the Baltic Fleet until 2008. From 2009 to 2014 it returned to the VVS when the VVS was reorganized into "Air Bases" and then returned to the Navy

If Kaliningrad remains a JSC separate from the Leningrad Military District, the 689th Fighter Regiment will be part of the Navy, like the Air Defense Division.
If Kaliningrad is annexed to the Leningrad Military District, then the 689th regiment will be part of the new Air Army that that Military District has.

The slavish mentioning that the Washigton regime "sanctioned" the ship.

In the annual ranking of the world's maritime powers compiled by scientists from IMEMO RAS, Russia retained third place, behind only China and the United States. The PRC accounts for 15.9% of the total maritime potential of all powers, the USA - 15.5%, Russia - 6.8%, it follows from the study data.
What is behind these figures, how increasing transportation volumes along the Northern Sea Route and the development of the Arctic shelf will help strengthen Russia’s position in the ranking and why our country needs to maintain a large navy - in the material of Izvestia.

Consistently third

Researchers at the Institute of World Economy and International Relations (IMEMO) of the Russian Academy of Sciences update their ranking of maritime powers twice a year. It is based on the study of open data published by states engaged in maritime activities. 40 categories of maritime statistics of both military and civilian nature are analyzed. Based on the results, a rating of 100 positions is formed.

In 2023, researchers put China in first place in the ranking. The United States of America follows closely behind. Despite the fact that the Americans are ahead of the Chinese in the number of aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, the Chinese naval forces have more developed light fleet forces, and they have no equal in the world in the number of merchant ships.

The PRC accounts for 15.9% of the total maritime potential of all maritime powers, and the United States accounts for 15.5%, the authors of the study cite. Russia closes the top three leading maritime powers with 6.8% of the world's maritime potential. In assessing the naval power of states, the resources of the World Ocean, which are controlled, explored and extracted by powers, are also taken into account.

“Russia is in solid third place in the index,” leading researcher at IMEMO RAS, author of the rating, Alexander Polivach, told Izvestia. — The closest one to us from below is Japan, but their pace of development is not such that they will move us forward.

Japan ranks fourth in the naval power index. It was followed by the Republic of Korea, Great Britain, Indonesia, Norway, India and France. The high place of South Korea and Indonesia in the ranking is due to the active maritime activities of these states and the large number of controlled territorial waters. In addition, South Korea is one of the world leaders in civil shipbuilding. At the shipyards of this state, thousands of ships are built annually, which are ordered by leading world powers, including Russia.

The role of the navy is not diminishing

According to the authors of the rating, in the 19th and 20th centuries, naval forces played one of the leading roles in the total power of the state. Japan lost World War II only after losing most of its navy. And the German naval forces created many problems for the Allies in the Atlantic and Arctic throughout the Second World War.

Researchers believe that, despite the development of missile technology and aviation, the role of navies in the 21st century in the aggregate power of states has not decreased much, and the scale of a country’s navy can be used to judge its ambitions on the world stage.

— Since the Second World War, the navy has been more than just ships or submarines, it also includes aviation and other forces and means. Each component of the fleet’s forces in the 21st century is used where it is most effective, says Alexander Polivach.

In terms of assessing the naval potential of world powers, researchers put the United States in first place. China is two times ahead of the Americans, the Russian Navy is in third place, followed by Japan, India and the UK. Researchers note the growth of India's naval potential, which in 2023 surpassed the former metropolis for the first time in terms of the total power of the relevant forces.

According to the authors of the rating, Russia today remains a leading position in the Arctic zone. Our state's icebreaker fleet is the largest on the planet, and the Russian Navy has extensive experience in conducting operations in the Arctic Ocean. Taking into account the increase in the volume of work on the Northern Sea Route and the development of the shelf, Russia, according to the compilers of the rating, will not lose its maritime positions even taking into account the large-scale sanctions pressure on our country.

https://iz-ru.translate.goog/1628445/andrei-krasnobaev/vodnyi-kurs-v-reitinge-morskikh-derzhav-rossiia-zaniala-3-e-mesto?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

naval potential of world powers

What does this even mean?

Hole wrote:

naval potential of world powers

What does this even mean?

Agreed pretty abstract... posted it for all the navy moaners and naysayers, seeing how it is a positive outlook from a semi-government source (Academy of Science)

Russia used to trade with the world in commercial commodities through the west, they used western markets and western price setters, and they shipped most of their goods on western ships insured by western companies, their need for a Navy was basically self defence from America and HATO.

But even still they have been ambitious and have not just gone for making Cold War period ships, they have improved and developed everything from systems and weapons and sensors and equipment to a very high level to the point where their new corvettes and frigates have the potential previously only their cruisers could match.

There is still room to grow even further and now they are creating their own maritime fleet... first off by buying up all the European ships they used to hire for the job but EU regulations do not allow those companies to work with Russia and no one else wants to hire them for anything so they are just selling them to the Russians, but over time they will start making brand new ships dedicated to the role and rather more efficient and useful and modern.

As their maritime fleet increases they are going to have to expand their navy to provide support and logistics for that fleet... this is not about invading countries or bombing countries, it is about having support ships to help Russian ships that get into trouble through accidents or natural problems, but also because of the actions of hostile forces from pirates off the coast of Africa right up to HATO pirates and US pirates.

The improved international trade will more than pay for an improved navy... but until you build that improved navy you are vulnerable to the whims of other players... and western whims are hostile.

Any news about the last Grigorovitch class that Indian didn't buy ?

As far as I remember, indians bought 2 of 3 not completed frigates.

I guess it would be a good replacement for the loss of the Moskva.

Isos wrote:Any news about the last Grigorovitch class that Indian didn't buy ?

As far as I remember, indians bought 2 of 3 not completed frigates.

I guess it would be a good replacement for the loss of the Moskva.

A 22350M would be far more appropriate.

It is however a good question, and I'm starting to suspect that the Russian gov might keep the Kornilov and refit her with a UEC-Saturn domestic MGT engine once the supply chain becomes fully established and engines become available.  The BSF could certainly do with another 11356M.  

I totally disagree. It was already dumb to keep the Moskva there, let alone a super Gorshkov.

It's a closed sea that can be monitored from Crimea. Some light frigates are needed to control it but not ships designed to fight US carrier battlegroups.

Moskva would have been better in the northern fleet or the mediteranean keeping an eye on US carriers.

Those Grigorovitch are very good there. The 8 uksk cells are enough to deal with any ship in the black sea but would be a low number in the open sea and its buk-m3 missiles already proved to be able to shoot down Neptunes and Harpoons whike protecting other ships (it was a ukro source who confirmed that I think). The radar is also very good to monitor a big part of the sky around there.

Hopefully they are not dumb to cancel the ship. They can always buy some chinese engine for it, not the end of the world if they do.

You must remember that most of the large ships in the BS also serve in the Med.

The Soviets had the big Kara class cruisers in the BS.

Those Grigorovitch are very good there. The 8 uksk cells are enough to deal with any ship in the black sea but would be a low number in the open sea and its buk-m3 missiles already proved to be able to shoot down Neptunes and Harpoons whike protecting other ships (it was a ukro source who confirmed that I think). The radar is also very good to monitor a big part of the sky around there.

Hopefully they are not dumb to cancel the ship. They can always buy some chinese engine for it, not the end of the world if they do.

There is no need to get a Chinese engine. You could get the M90FR and M70FRU-2 from UEC Saturn. But you would have to get Zvezda to develop a gearbox for this.

Anyway making the hull isn't the most expensive and time consuming thing. They can build a huge 20kt icebreaker in like four years. The most expensive thing is the stuffing that goes inside it.

I suppose there is a question if they could make a cheaper version of the Admiral Gorshkov to mass produce or not.