MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #3

Not a bad idea actually. Regurgitating the same old stuff over and over again is quite tedious. Some fresh air and time off with your friends will do you the world of good

If I criticize MiG for whatever reason it does not mean that I'm a "MiG hater".

When the criticism is made up you are.

The Mig-29M2 is light years better than the JF-17.

Of course it is... it is like a comparison with a model A MIG-29 with a MiG-29SMT... and then some troll will claim a MiG-35 is a MiG-29SMT with an AESA radar and that they are all useless.

That just reflects their ignorance so I don't care what such idiots say other than to correct that for others who don't know any better.

Maybe you missed it but perhaps you saw that in a recent post I regard the old Mig-29A superior to the F-16A/C series.

The new F-16 I'm talking about is the F-16 Block 70/72 - also known as the F-16V.
This is a totally modern new built machine that first flew in January 2023. It's a deep modernization of the F-16 - much like the Mig-35 but with one tiny technical difference - IT HAS A WORKING AESA on board. The Mig-35 first flew in 2007 (a 16 year difference) but in all those years they still can't get the AESA to work properly dunno
The F-16V is also available as an upgrade package for older machines. This is a huge market with many takers already.

You are so knowledegable and yet so stupid. The MiG-29 was always superior to the F-16... that is why they spent so much continually upgrading the F-16 and introducing AMRAAM and AIM-9X to compensate.

The F-16 is horribly expensive and it is not for sale... only for rent. If the US decides your F-16s should go to Kiev... guess what buddy... no spares and support for you till you send some.

So you are saying the F-16V is a MiG-35 but with a working AESA radar.

So the MiG is actually amazing and just needs Russian radar companies to get their radar sets working and affordable and into service.

So why all the bullshit?

The AESA radar has not been a high priority because they already have PESA radars and AESA radars are vastly more expensive and require a level of production capacity they don't clearly have. They have AESA radars across the board in missiles and ships and even tanks to detect incoming threats for APS systems... portable radar systems are now AESA, but fitting an array into the nose of a fighter aircraft is something we haven't seen them put into service yet.

Obviously I don't have the level of access you clearly do to know exactly where the programme is right now and the fiddly details but it is interesting you blame MiG for not having an operational AESA when they have minimal orders and minimal funding and yet Sukhoi has been selling like hotcakes to the world and the Russian military and has snapped up most of the contracts for Su-35 and Su-30 and Su-34 and Su-57 and yet the only planes they have with AESA radars are the Su-57s, while their other types have a cheap cop out hybrid radar that is not fully AESA at all.

Why is that?

Surely if the AESA radar defines whether the plane is any good or not then Sukhois fail is rather harder than MiGs because of the funding and power disparity yet they still fail... or is it the radar companies conspiring against them?

Both Migs that you mentioned are not nearly as good as Su-35. Firstly the Migs are not R-37 compatible. But even if they were - as opponents - the Mig's radar's range and weapon's load is dismal compared to the Su-35 - not to mention combat range. Much of this and all the rest below have been discussed many times before...but anyway

They are not supposed to be as good as the Su-35... when you buy your 50 cal AE super pistol and you are picking your backup gun to carry in a leg holster you don't pick a fucking 23mm cannon.

If you could get a MiG-35 with the same performance as the Su-35 for a quarter the operational costs then you don't need an air force... because your Yak-152 is going to be amazing.

They used second hand parts but indicated in the documentation that it was new.

There are suggestions the parts were not brand new, but there is no evidence the parts were used and were likely made in the 1990s with the airframes they didn't sell.

No. Sukhoi had a business plan - Mig had none.

Sukhoi had paying customers in Asia post cold war, MiG had to deal with Eastern European and other broke countries that sold counterfeit parts between themselves to earn money. When a country wanted to buy MiG-29s they often bought them from existing users who wanted to get rid of some. They wanted to reduce the number of airframes they had so their pool of spare parts allowed them to keep operating longer... they were selling used aircraft but not the parts. Those countries then tried to get supplies of parts and they were left with two options... MiG or the black market... and MiG didn't make any money on the sale of aircraft to these countries so the deal was usually very expensive parts so they could earn money or they had to buy planes from MiGs and incorporate a support contract for their new and their existing aircraft. Either way the country complained because their first planes were super cheap discount sale prices, and the support contracts and new planes cost a lot more... but still a fraction of what western planes cost but that didn't matter.

India bought an aircraft carrier for 1.4 billion... it was 700K for the work and 700K for the 14 MiG-29KR fighters and a dozen or more Kamov helicopters including a Ka-31
AEW helicopter. When they opened up the ship for the modification they found they needed to do a lot more work and they added 1 billion to the price... and the Indians cried like they were being robbed and raped all at the same time. The Indians then start an aircraft programme competition because they want to buy 126 Rafales but the French were demanding too much money, so the started a competition for 10 billion dollars... enough for four carriers and for air components for those carriers, and the Rafale won and they ended up paying 8.4 billion dollars for 36 aircraft... Damn those AESAs are expensive... Complaints? People throwing themselves off buildings?

No. 8.4 billion for 36 aircraft is just fine...

Double standard against Russia and also against MiG... I don't care any more, but I wont let you give one side without the other.

(and of course MiG has a business plan... duh)

As I've said before - both Egypt and Algeria were quite clever actually. They rather opted for the Mig-29M2 than the Mig-35. The Mig-35 is expensive, whilst the Mig-29M2 is virtually identical to the Mig-35 and a lot cheaper. Nobody ordered the Mig-35 with the AESA - not even Russia, because it's not working as it should.

No, they weren't clever... you have said no MiG is worth anything without an AESA... which is amusing... will you admit the MiG-35 with an AESA is superior to an Su-35 without a real AESA? Of course you wont.

They could have spent an extra 10 million dollars per aircraft and gotten a MiG-35 with AESA radar... it probably wouldn't have been perfect to start with but the bugs would have been sorted out over time and the performance and price improving to the point where they got a really good little fighter and instead they went cheap... which is fine... they clearly don't see an AESA radar as being as critical as the experts here seem to think it is.

The Russians might have ordered 6 MiG-35s so the problems and issues with any new type can be sorted out, with the expensive radar being left to last to being sorted.

The Russian radar making companies are likely making or involved with other companies making AESA radars in enormous numbers... ships, satellites, SAM systems, even missiles and tanks use AESA radar at the moment... the main problem is that no one has funded putting it in the small nose of a fighter the size of the MIG-35.

We have seen an AESA for a Yak-130, but we have seen AESA radar on display with MiG-35s too.

You can make all the claims you want... they can't afford it, they haven't paid for it. They don't have the skills or technology to make it work in a plane.

The reality is that we really don't know where it is at right now... and so far all you have said is that the only thing separating the MiG-35 from the western super planes is the AESA radar... so that sounds like an obvious fix.

Even more so because although expensive to buy an AESA radar is actually rather cheap to maintain because as modules fail the performance degrades but you could have dozens of modules fail before any needed to be replaced so the MTBF is actually rather good... and as serial production improves performance of the modules making new ones gets more efficient and cheaper and performance of individual modules improves too... the problem is starting production and getting the ball rolling.

Or do they have a new radar technology that is going to make current AESA radars obsolete?

It's not even a squadron's worth of Mig-35's so yes they are basically evaluation samples. Samples is actually a correct description.

So the order for 76 Su-57s is not enough for an entire air force so it is a sample as well, because they clearly have not committed to replacing all their fighters with the type...

You always seem to forget that during that time Russia could not afford any new aircraft - they had no money. The RAF was just too happy to get some crumbs coming their way!

If they weren't interested in the plane they would gift them to someone else... a current MiG-29 user in the hopes that experience with the upgraded planes might lead them to consider upgrading their existing aircraft...

As I've said. The deal was included as a package. Normally known as an "Arms Deal". Both the Su-30MKA (16) and the Mig-29M2 (14) was ordered in that arms deal. Algeria currently have 86 Su-30MKA's in service and 14 Mig-29M2's.

When you buy a package deal you don't have to accept all the parts, if they didn't like MIG and didn't trust MiG they would not be buying MiGs or dealing with the company.

The source of the article does not really matter. You can go look for other Russian sources if you want - you'll find the same story.

The story is proliferated and kept alive with western support and encouragement... and probably also pro Sukhoi factions in Russia too.

[quote]

"But it was established ... the parts for the aircraft to be supplied to Algeria's Defence Ministry were used ones, made in the 1980-90s, while the accompanying documents registered them as new ones," the Prosecutor General's Investigative Committee said in a statement. "At the moment, an investigation is being conducted to establish all the details of the crime and those who committed it," it said.

The MiG-29SMT is an aircraft upgrade... of course it will include parts from the 1990s when they were made and left on the assembly line because nobody bought them. When Algeria stipulated they must be brand new someone made a choice.

If you read the paragraph all the way to the end you will get to a line where the Prosecutor General states -"an investigation is being conducted to establish all the details of the crime and those who committed it".
Do you think you can you grasp the implications and meaning of - "to establish all the details of the crime and those who committed it."?

Yes, I can grasp what that means, it seems you don't care that there is no evidence they were found guilty... it seems accusations are good enough for proof... interesting.

I would think MiG being found guilty and being fined or having people go to jail or any consequences would have been the sort of story most western news agencies would have loved to have posted... almost like it was all swept under the carpet as a politically motivated situation.

Name one western company who has never had any accusations made against it?

Why does this have anything to do with their current aircraft designs... which you admit Algeria continue to buy.

For Egypt and Algeria the MiG-35 does not make as much sense as the Mig-29M because both countries have other larger fighters to face off with the enemy top dog fighter. Their MiG-29Ms are numbers planes and just need to be good enough and be cheap enough to operate to fill gaps.

And BTW

Firstly the Migs are not R-37 compatible. But even if they were - as opponents - the Mig's radar's range and weapon's load is dismal compared to the Su-35 - not to mention combat range.

The makers of the R-37 state it is compatible with all new Russian fighters including the Yak-141, but also the MiG-35 and Su-35 and the PAK FA at that time...

The R-37 is intended for shooting down force multiplier aircraft... AWACS, AEW, Tankers, Cargo planes, JSTARS.... all of which can be detected at extended ranges even with the non AESA radar of the MiG-35. The datalink capability of the MiG-35 also means target information from other platforms can be used to launch attacks on targets outside its radar range.

The combat range is not relevant... being able to climb to altitude and accelerate to speed would enable a MIG-35 launched R-37 reach the same targets launched from the Su-35 at the same speed and altitude. Neither would reach the same distance as an R-37 launched from a MiG-31 because it can fly higher and faster.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Actually I do find it stressful when some members repeat the same bullshit over and over again... like the MiG-29M is just a MiG-35 with an AESA radar and the MiG-35 is just a MiG-29 from the 1980s... but I now realise it is just flamebaiters trying to get a response.


I will just correct their ignorance and move on.

A break sounds pretty good... maybe 6 months.

Did you know the forum has forum on holiday button I can select where all functions on the website require Mod level access. 6 months might be too long, maybe 3 months?

@Let the Buyer Beware,

The real problem with the issues is that anything negative about MiG seems easy to find on the internet while alternative views... and there are always alternative views... seem to be very difficult to find or even removed from the record.

The mid 2000 was a volatile time and the arms deal in question was more about settling cold war debts and politics than any weapons and equipment that Algeria urgently needed. There was a lot going on and of course when western experts and western new sources investigate they cherry pick what they want and stop when the story turns in directions that does not suit their agenda.

France wanted more influence and anything to discredit Russia was actively encouraged... Sukhoi wanted sales too so of course they didn't mind a bit of dirt being thrown MiGs way either.

It is funny that it is easy to find that MiG was investigated for alleged criminal activity (the sort of activity most western companies have all been found guilty of at one point or another BTW) but the results of that investigation seem to be missing or absent.

You would think the guilty verdict and the punishments would be required reading in western publications, yet completely silent... almost like the damage was done and any findings that don't further drive the boot in was not important for western audiences to hear...

Tell me western media does not behave so dishonestly and are only interested in the truth and cold hard facts...

Mir told Alpha to do more digging to find the truth but it seems when Mir found what he wanted he stopped digging and clearly never tried to find out the view from MiG, or a non Sukhoi view... or even the verdict in the case.

The main reason for creating the UAC was because Russian companies would actively try to sabotage other Russian companies bids for contracts, and of course western news agencies and intel agencies lapped that up and magnified all the problems and issues in the hope of discrediting the equipment... how else could they sell their crap that was 10 times more expensive and was really just rented rather than purchased by the customer.

GarryB
A break sounds pretty good... maybe 6 months.

Did you know the forum has forum on holiday button I can select where all functions on the website require Mod level access. 6 months might be too long, maybe 3 months?

Go for it! You can't put price on health. Whatever you need.

In just looked at the structure of the forum - there seems to be 2 Moderators that are not active anymore? One since 2018 and the other 2013!!!  
Just a suggestion: JohninMK, Alamo and also Hole seems like good candidates for Moderator jobs?
Someone like George1 could easily take up an Admin role? That could make your life a lot easier.

As for the MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #3 thread: I'm taking a break until the MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #4  

Go for it! You can't put price on health. Whatever you need.

And a like from Mir.... you sound like the UK suggesting that the UNSC needs to be expanded to make it more fair and give a better representation of the world as it is today... so their suggestions are to add Germany and Japan...

That could make your life a lot easier.

My life is fine... thank you for your fake concern... my problem is not related to the operation of this forum.

George does a fantastic job, and I don't need any further help.

I'm posting here because there is no thread on Warsaw Pact weapons.

This is perfectly fine for MiG-29 photos, but if you want to discuss WP weapons and armed forces you can go to the country itself or for general WP stuff go to the World Military History section in the General Discussion area.

GarryB wrote:And a like from Mir....

You said a "break sounds pretty good"...and caveat emptor said "Go for it!"

So what's not to like?
It sounds like a great idea to me!

GarryB wrote:my problem is not related to the operation of this forum.

So what is your problem related to then?
(I prefer to continue this conversation in another thread though...)

Mir wrote:They did - so no mystery - they bought an additional 16 Su-30MKA's + the 14 Mig-29M2's in the same deal. Their old Mig-29's was gifted to Sudan.

So in the end they still ordered more Migs, despite hating Migs, that don't add up?
This ain't some packaged deal nonsense, these are war machines not store trinkets, and the one choosing whats in said package is Algeria itself.

Mir wrote:Amazing!

Never disregarded the F-16's capabilities, simply stated the geopolitical realities that make the F-16 hardly worth mentioning.
For you are not "buying" the F-16, it is simply on "loan" to you.

As for the AN/APG-83, its grand claims are just that, grand claims.

Garry wrote: I think different countries would appreciate the price difference of about 10 million dollars per aircraft between the two... some countries don't need a MiG-35 or high end F-16, and a cheaper simpler model makes more sense.

I don't see it, Mikoyan is putting a lot of resources into the Mig-35 and there is already precedence with the previous transition to the M platform.
Either way, we will see.

Can't seem to pin down the mig-29M's price, Egypt payed $2 bill for 46 aircraft, but Algeria payed $1.8~2 bill for 16 MKAs and 14 migs, ergo assuming the migs are $40mill x 14= $560 million
1.8b-560m=1.24b  1.24b/16=77m per flanker
How odd.

And some sad news for the Checkmate fans, recent talks with India revealed that Sukhoi was willing to go as far as giving India exclusive export rights on the su-75, which is nuts.
This could mean that the export potential of the checkmate has been greatly exaggerated or that Moscow lacks interest in single engine aircraft such as the checkmate, and won't foot the bill.

@AlfaT8

You obviously missed this bit...sorry about that 

Mir wrote:As for the MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #3 thread: I'm taking a break until the MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #4  

Welp, such is life.

On another note, i am surprised so many operators of the mig-29 vanilla have not yet implemnted the SMT upgrade.
Are they that strapped for cash?

It's not cheap. Going by prices that Serbia paid for modernisation of 6 it came to 30 million/apiece. In our case, that was emergency move and for that money we got ok fighters of SM configuration (supposedly same as SMT) that will be able to fly till 2035. Some countries don't want to go down that route and choose instead to buy new planes.

So in the end they still ordered more Migs, despite hating Migs, that don't add up?
This ain't some packaged deal nonsense, these are war machines not store trinkets, and the one choosing whats in said package is Algeria itself.

If they screwed them over there is no reason for Algeria to buy MiGs ever again... and yet they did.

Sounds political.

For you are not "buying" the F-16, it is simply on "loan" to you.

Indeed, it does not matter how much you pay for it, it can still be taken away if you are a naughty boy... which means it is not just very expensive, it is also only rented... dealing with the US makes you a rentboy.

I don't see it, Mikoyan is putting a lot of resources into the Mig-35 and there is already precedence with the previous transition to the M platform.

For all we know there might be promises behind doors. I have mentioned that a solid contract for MiG-35s with serial production would be the best way for them to get numbers of decent aircraft into service quickly... they could probably do it faster and cheaper if they went for the MiG-29M2, but going for the MiG-35 invests money in the production of all the avionics systems that are their best available at the moment and also serial production of AESA radars.

Even if the radars are worse than the radars they use and 100 times the price the point is they will never get cheaper in the lab... in the lab they will come up with new materials and chemical compositions to make it more efficient and better, but you need serial production to really make it cheaper to produce and operate.

Getting them into service also finds any problems there might be and over the next few years they can improve production and simply make them smaller and lighter and cheaper and more efficient and more reliable.

When you make one transmit/receive module a few grammes lighter and a few dollars cheaper and a few xs more powerful and effective then you multiply that performance improvement by 1,500 when you make that improvement to all the modules and you reduce weight 1,500 times and the price 1,500 times... but it will never happen if you never put them into serial production.

Getting them into widespread service also means testing them in the field on a daily basis where new software upgrades can improve all sorts of features of the system, improving precision and accuracy and harnessing more efficient wavelengths and signals to get the best results.

With MiG and Phazotron, can spend time and money working on getting everything working right (like you do with any new fighters... in the west they call it blocks or tranches where not everything works to begin with...), which means in the background they can be working on the 5th gen light fighter replacement with next gen equipment and features that can also be tested on the MiG-35, not only so there are fewer surprised with the 5th gen fighter, but also to get the technology out into the field and soldier proof as quickly as possible.

Essentially the same as what Sukhoi did with the Su-35 Su-57 work where new technology was tested on the Su-35 before being used in the Su-57 (including the L band AESA radar antennas in the wing structure).

This led to a smooth service entry of the new stealthy fighter with fewer problems than most similar projects... and helped with the financial side of things because income generated by making Su-35s would have helped pay for things used on both aircraft.

Sharing development costs...

Having two design bureaus able to make stealth fighters would be a good thing.

Sukhoi is going to make plenty of money on their Su-75 exports.

And some sad news for the Checkmate fans, recent talks with India revealed that Sukhoi was willing to go as far as giving India exclusive export rights on the su-75, which is nuts.
This could mean that the export potential of the checkmate has been greatly exaggerated or that Moscow lacks interest in single engine aircraft such as the checkmate, and won't foot the bill.

Not to mention putting India in charge will result in a whole lot of changes to the design that they wont want to have to pay for...

Almost sounds like Sukhoi is too busy for the job and wants to pass it on to another country...

MiG has the twin engined carrier based type as a backup if they don't want a single engined fighter, but I do think the single engined light fighter idea does make sense.

But I doubt Russia will buy it anyway. I think they are just gonna go with Su-57 and then a heavy interceptor and that's it.

They have said they will look at it, but have made no commitments to buy any or be part of the development programme... so either they don't want a light single engined fighter at all or they are funding the MiG project... which makes sense.

On another note, i am surprised so many operators of the mig-29 vanilla have not yet implemnted the SMT upgrade.
Are they that strapped for cash?

I don't understand it either because part of the upgrade is to make it cheaper to operate... so even if you don't want any of the new capabilities it would still be worth upgrading. A bit like removing the 3 1/2 inch floppy drive and 5 1/4 inch floppy drive from a computer from the 1990s and replacing it with a USB port... except this also replaces the motherboard and RAM and CPU to something newer and more useful and usable.

The Russia AF said it didn't want the SMT upgrades because it didn't need its MiGs to be multirole... but cheap glide kits for dumb bombs would mean a multirole upgrade would allow precision ground attack from safer standoff distances without being too expensive in ordinance.

In fact in many conflicts where the enemy does not have western support operating at 10km altitude and using the Gefest & T bomb aiming system together with glide kits should allow safe operation of aircraft (much like in Syria).

It's not cheap. Going by prices that Serbia paid for modernisation of 6 it came to 30 million/apiece.

Over the lifefime of the aircraft the reduction in operational costs probably means it is relatively cheap and gives you the multirole performance of your average F-16.

Obviously a lot of customers might want to buy a different aircraft... mostly to buy favour or for other political reasons.

The D-30 engines of the Il-76 were about 800K each, while the PS-90 engines to replace them were slightly more powerful and were more fuel efficient, but they were reported to cost 6 million dollars each. The reasons most commercial users didn't upgrade was because it would take years to burn the 20 million dollars in fuel difference in price to pay for the new engines. It simply was not worth the upfront cost to upgrade the fleet... especially when new versions of the D-30 were developed that improved fuel consumption a little.[/quote]

The MiG-35 now has a real chance of making an impact:
https://overclockers.ru/blog/kosmos_news/show/202930/Rossijskij-legkij-istrebitel-MiG-35-modernizirovan-i-ispytan-v-boevyh-usloviyah

MiG35 has officially completed state trials and has been tested in the SMO

Seems the orders are coming through - advanced RAM coating, enhanced navigation suite with Jam protection, and AESA radar

@GarryB

I've noticed that Tsavo Lion's post disappeared - why is that?

sepheronx wrote:I wouldn't put stock into what you were hearing about checkmate.

But I doubt Russia will buy it anyway. I think they are just gonna go with Su-57 and then a heavy interceptor and that's it.

Well, checkmate according to Sukhoi's own words is meant to be more of a Su-17, MiG-27 successor.   If they nail the cost and operation expenses then i can see RuAF going for it.  

Tsavo Lion's post from this morning ended up being moved here for some odd reason
https://www.russiadefence.net/t5535p425-military-aviation-industry-news#482422 (post 445)

@GarryB It would be good if you could move it back here since Arch already responded to it.
Perhaps getting some more help in is not such a bad idea after all

@Robert.V - nice post but it belongs in the Su-75 thread

I've noticed that Tsavo Lion's post disappeared - why is that?

Nothing to do with me, I did not move it.

Well, checkmate according to Sukhoi's own words is meant to be more of a Su-17, MiG-27 successor. If they nail the cost and operation expenses then i can see RuAF going for it.

The Russian military would be mad not to have a good look at the aircraft.

An opportunity for someone else to pay for a new plane for them is too good to ignore.

But they will be funding a MiG alternative too... this puts pressure on MiG too which is also good for the Russian military.

@GarryB It would be good if you could move it back here since Arch already responded to it.
Perhaps getting some more help in is not such a bad idea after all

I have no idea why the post was moved... Tsavo Lion can't move it. I don't know whether he asked George to move it or George decided to move it himself.

I would need a request from Tsavo before I moved it back and if he did ask I would talk to George before I moved it to see why it was moved in the first place.

I would think it would belong in this thread but I am not going to overrule George without talking to him about it.

@Robert.V - nice post but it belongs in the Su-75 thread

I would agree with that... if Robert agrees I will move it... if he does not we can talk about it.

A video...

I know I said I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore but I took the liberty of translating the article from Overclockers.ru. The one mistake everybody seems to make these days is to confuse the first flight of the Mig-35. I think they take the date from Wikipedia which states it as December 2016, but if your read further you will see in failed bids they mention the Indian MRCA competition, where the Mig-35 was ousted in 2011! The first flight was back in 2007 already!

December 2016 corresponds to the first flight of the RAF's Mig-35UB variant though.

Anyway here is the translated article in full as it makes for some interesting reading:

The Russian MiG-35 light fighter has been upgraded and tested in combat conditions According to the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), the MiG-35 has been successfully tested in combat conditions. Orders are expected "at any moment".

The MiG-35, a heavy, modern and multi—purpose aircraft based on the MiG-29, first flew in Russia in 2016. The aircraft was proposed as a successor to the popular MiG-29 aircraft, which were once designed as combat fighters.

MiG-35

Today they are used mainly as training and testing machines, and they do not participate in their own activities. Much heavier Su-27 family vehicles (Su-30, Su-34, Su-35) are operating on the front line. However, there are fewer of them, and their operation is more expensive.

It was assumed that the MiG-35 would join the above-mentioned aircraft to perform combat missions. Russia has purchased an experimental series of six such aircraft. However, the Air Force's attention in the context of the light fighter is focused on the Su-75 Checkmate light tactical aircraft, a promising machine because it uses the experience of the PAK FA integrated target program, but at the same time light because it has a single–engine installation.

In this situation, the announcement in the spring of 2023 that Russia was returning to the idea of producing the MiG-35 (it was implied: through the use of technologies borrowed from the Su-75) did not come as a big surprise. However, since then there has been no news about this. Now it turns out that during 2024, the MiG-35 was supposed to be tested in combat conditions, which means it would take part in combat operations in its combat zone.

According to the representative of the UAC, these tests were successful and met the expectations of the Russian Air Force. The KLA reports on the changes made to the design of the aircraft to ensure its use in a "full-scale" conflict. The aircraft received many technical solutions and used material technologies borrowed from the Su-57.

These solutions are likely to include radio-absorbing coatings (the MiG-35 should be able to overcome air defense systems), integration with the latest types of weapons currently available for the Su-35 and Su-57, on-board electronic equipment unified with the Su-35SM and Su-30SM2 aircraft, and the latest Russian 4 fighter jets.3rd generation, interference-proof BINS-SP2M navigation system, new helmet-mounted aiming system, optoelectronic head, Zhuk-A radar station, It allows detecting targets at a range of "up to 300 km" (according to other sources, 200 km) and firing at six of them simultaneously.

The car was also supposed to receive new, more economical engines with a modular design and digital control of their operation, although the exact type was not specified. It is possible to use a controlled thrust vector. The redesigned enlarged wing is expected to provide better flight performance.

Experts classify the MiG-35 as a "light fighter." This is strange, considering that even before the mentioned improvements, the MiG-35 had a maximum take-off weight of 24.5 tons with a maximum mass of 6.5 tons of transported weapons. This parameter is suitable for medium combat aircraft, whereas light combat aircraft have a maximum take-off weight of several tons with a slightly lower combat load.

Thus, the MiG-35 is a technically complex aircraft, and therefore its acquisition and operation will not be cheap. It is only slightly cheaper than the following versions of the Su-27. The argument in favor of producing this machine is likely to be not the economy, but the aforementioned infrastructure and spare production facilities at the factories. At the moment, the manufacturer is ready to "supply this equipment."

Russia’s MiG-35 4++ fighter tested in real combat, UAC says

The Russian Aerospace Forces may begin receiving upgraded versions of the multirole MiG-35 fighters. This was announced by the United Aircraft Corporation [UAC].

This news was first revealed on the eve of 2024. As previously reported by the former head of UAC, Yuri Slyusar, in the coming years, the Russian Aerospace Forces may receive additional upgraded MiG-35 fighters with enhanced capabilities.

It is worth noting that the MiG-35 made its maiden flight in November 2016, was presented to the public in 2017, and by 2018, the first six aircraft were handed over to the Russian troops for trial operation.

According to the chief designer of UAC, Sergey Korotkov, the latest MiG-35 aviation complex of the “4++” generation is currently completing state trials. He emphasized that since last year, the aircraft has been tested under real combat conditions and fully meets the expectations of the flight crews in terms of performance and capabilities. It is expected that the Russian Ministry of Defense will soon make a final decision regarding the delivery of this aircraft to the Aerospace Forces.

Sergey Korotkov also shared that negotiations are underway with potential foreign customers who are currently interested in this type of Russian fighter. However, which countries may become “happy owners” of these aircraft in the future is not disclosed.

According to the director of the MiG-35 program, Musheg Baloyan, issues raised earlier by the military department regarding the aircraft during trial operations have been promptly addressed by UAC specialists.

A preliminary conclusion has already been received, allowing the production of the first serial batch of new MiG-35 aircraft to begin. The Ministry of Defense is expected to make a final decision on this matter in the near future, said Baloyan.

UAC representatives stated that the MiG-35 was initially developed using fifth-generation fighter technologies and materials used in the creation of carrier-based fighters. Additionally, it was designed specifically for operations in high-intensity armed conflict zones and in conditions of dense enemy air defense, including advanced systems.

Moreover, the fighter will receive the latest jamming-resistant navigation system BINS-SP2M, intended for fifth-generation Su-57 fighters, which is twice as accurate and has a longer operational life than earlier versions of inertial navigation systems, offering high durability and requiring no special maintenance.

As a means of detecting and targeting, the aircraft will be equipped with a new optical-location station [OLS], a new helmet-mounted targeting system, and a jamming-resistant Zhuk-A radar with a new active phased array antenna [AFAR], which reportedly allows tracking up to 30 enemy aerial targets simultaneously at distances of up to 300 km and engaging six of them.

As for its powerplant, the MiG-35 will be equipped with new, more economical, and resourceful modular engines with increased thrust and resource, an afterburner, and a digital automatic control and monitoring system.
However, it has not been disclosed which engine version the MiG-35 will receive if produced for the Ministry of Defense. Considering that the MiG-35 is positioned as a light tactical fighter of the 4++ generation, to reduce costs and ensure “healthy” competition with Sukhoi fighters, it is likely that the aircraft will be equipped with simpler engines without TVC.

During the development of the MiG-35, special attention was paid to the capabilities of the electronic warfare system, which was developed taking into account accumulated combat experience and using the most advanced technologies.

It was previously reported that the MiG-35 has been given the capability to serve as an aerial tanker for both other fighters and modern unmanned aerial vehicles.

According to UAC, if this aircraft is produced for the Russian Aerospace Forces, it will be designated MG-35C, and its cost-efficiency ratio will be significantly lower than its foreign counterparts.

Earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated during a defense industry meeting: “Despite the good export potential of the new light MiG-35 fighter, I strongly hope that this machine, with improved flight and technical characteristics and the most advanced weaponry, will significantly strengthen our military.”

The MiG-35 is a multirole fighter of the 4++ generation, developed by the Russian manufacturer MiG. It is an evolution of the previous MiG-29 models and is designed to perform a wide range of missions.

The dimensions of the MiG-35 include a length of 17.32 meters, a wingspan of 12 meters, and a height of 4.73 meters. The wing area is 42.0 square meters.

The propulsion of the MiG-35 is provided by two RD-33MK afterburning turbofan engines, each generating approximately 5,400 kgf of thrust, and around 9,000 kgf with an afterburner. This allows the aircraft to reach a maximum speed of about 2,400 km/h at altitude and around 1,400 km/h at sea level.

WE ARE SO BACK

Told you, it will have new engines too.

Thus, the MiG-35 is a technically complex aircraft, and therefore its acquisition and operation will not be cheap. It is only slightly cheaper than the following versions of the Su-27. The argument in favor of producing this machine is likely to be not the economy, but the aforementioned infrastructure and spare production facilities at the factories. At the moment, the manufacturer is ready to "supply this equipment."

As far as I understand, both the MAPO Lukhovitsy plant and the Sokol plant in Nizhny Novgorod have the equipment and tooling needed for building MiG-35.

It would require time and money to convert them for production of a different type of fighter.

That means either building there Mig-35 or MiG-29M (starting from this year) or waiting a few years to build something else.

The car was also supposed to receive new, more economical engines with a modular design and digital control of their operation, although the exact type was not specified. It is possible to use a controlled thrust vector

I do not know if Klimov has worked in an upgraded version of the Klimov RD-33MK engine, but that is something that would be needed anyway, and there are also other buro that could support it, like Saljut (which is upgrading the Ivchenko-Progress AI-222 (about 2.5 tons of dry thrust and about 4.2tons for the afterburner version) and developing its successor SM-100 and Saturn, which is still working on the various AL31 and AL41 upgrades for the Su-30/Su-34/Su-35/ su-57  and finishing development of the Idelize30/ AL51 for the Su-57M. (Saturn has also a promising small engine proposed for single engine trainers and apparently already developed for an Indian trainer, the AL-55 engine, which offers about two thirds of the thrust of the AI-222 (1.7 tons vs 2.5 tons dry thrust).

Basically Russia would need a more modern fighter engine (or a vast modernisation of the RD-33) in the 5 to 6 tons max takeoff dry thrust range (9 to 10 tons afterburner thrust).

(Similar thrust have also of the EJ2000 of the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Snecma M88 of the Rafale, the GE F414 of the F/A18 super Hornet, SAAB Gripen, HAL Tejas MK2 and south Korean KAI KF-21, and the previous generation GE F404).

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2025/01/14/russias-mig-35-4-fighter-tested-in-real-combat-uac-says/

I do not know if Bulgarian military is a serious newspaper or not, but similar articles are also reported by western press (like MSN).

As for its powerplant, the MiG-35 will be equipped with new, more economical, and resourceful modular engines with increased thrust and resource, an afterburner, and a digital automatic control and monitoring system.

(...)

As for its powerplant, the MiG-35 will be equipped with new, more economical, and resourceful modular engines with increased thrust and resource, an afterburner, and a digital automatic control and monitoring system.

It is known that, at the customer’s request, either the upgraded RD-33MKV engines with thrust vector control [TVC] or the RD-33MK modification without TVC can be installed.

However, it has not been disclosed which engine version the MiG-35 will receive if produced for the Ministry of Defense. Considering that the MiG-35 is positioned as a light tactical fighter of the 4++ generation, to reduce costs and ensure “healthy” competition with Sukhoi fighters, it is likely that the aircraft will be equipped with simpler engines without TVC.

(...)
The propulsion of the MiG-35 is provided by two RD-33MK afterburning turbofan engines, each generating approximately 5,400 kgf of thrust, and around 9,000 kgf with an afterburner.

Here they mention only the RD-33MK, but that was already the same engine used in the Mig-29K.it is much better than the original RD-33 but not the upgrade I was expecting...

@Rodion_Romanovic

I think the new engines they are referring to may well be just the RD-33MK?

BUT in the Bulgarian military article the Zhuk AESA radar specs are suddenly "upgraded" significantly from what what was previously released - so who knows maybe they have a new engine?

The new upcoming Indian MRCA competition would be a good test for the Mig-35.

@Arch

The VKS still has to make a final decision whether the want the Mig-35 or not. Also don't forget that in 2023 UAC announced that the Mig-35 was going to be produced for the Swifts.
In the end VKS decided on the Mig-29SMT.