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So I suppose just about all the Su-24 will be phased out and handed over to Assadists within the next few years. Su-34 numbers would have to be at least 150 to completely phase out Su-24 and Tu-22 which are near the end of their service lives.
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Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News
ultimatewarrior- Posts : 798
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Tu22 are not in service anymore.ultimatewarrior wrote:So I suppose just about all the Su-24 will be phased out and handed over to Assadists within the next few years. Su-34 numbers would have to be at least 150 to completely phase out Su-24 and Tu-22 which are near the end of their service lives.
Tu-22M are being modernised from standard Tu-22M3 to Tu-22M3M (maybe not all of them) and will remain in service for quite a while
GarryB- Posts : 40547
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They are upgrading at least 30 Tu-22M3s to Tu-22M3M level, which will likely remain in service for perhaps a decade or so... likely until PAK DA is available in numbers to replace them.
George1- Posts : 18523
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New Su-34s delivered?
https://tass.com/defense/1080935
Russia completes rearming air regiment in Urals with generation 4++ fighter-bombers
The aviation regiment near Chelyabinsk is the sole unit in the Central Military District that operates Su-34 aircraft, the commander said
TASS, October 2. A composite aviation regiment of Russia’s Central Military District stationed in the Chelyabinsk Region in the Urals has completed its rearmament with Sukhoi Su-34 generation 4++ fighter-bombers, Central Military District Commander Colonel-General Alexander Lapin said on Wednesday.
"The work on setting up the second squadron of Su-34 planes near Chelyabinsk has been completed. Now the air regiment is 100% armed with new generation 4++ bombers," the commander said.
The aviation regiment near Chelyabinsk is the sole unit in the Central Military District that operates Su-34 aircraft, he added.
The rearmament process was completed after three Su-34 planes arrived at the Shchagol airfield from Novosibirsk, the press office of the Central Military District reported.
"The flight and ground personnel who will operate and service Su-34 planes have been retrained for the new aircraft at the Lipetsk state aviation personnel training center and received all the necessary certificates," the press office specified.
The first Su-34 planes entered service with the Central Military District’s aviation in 2018. Overall, 24 aircraft have arrived for the aviation regiment.
The Su-34 multirole supersonic fighter-bomber is designated to strike enemy ground and air targets day and night in any weather conditions.
The Su-34 carries long-range air-to-surface and air-to-air missile armament with the multi-channel employment capability. The Su-34 has an operating range of 4,000 km, can develop a maximum speed of 1,900 km/h and is capable of carrying a weapon payload of up to 8 tonnes. The Su-34 is half as noisy as earlier models.
https://tass.com/defense/1080935
George1- Posts : 18523
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https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3795166.htmlShagol Aviation Regiment completes rearmament to Su-34 front-line bombers
As Zvezda TV Channel reported on October 2, 2019, the mixed aviation regiment of the Central Military District (CVO), deployed in the Chelyabinsk Region, completed re-equipment for 4 ++ generation aircraft. At the Shagol airfield, the second squadron of Su-34 bombers was formed.
The air regiment is 100% equipped with new generation 4 ++ bombers. The compound near Chelyabinsk is the only one in the Central Military District, where the Su-34 is in service.
“Today, the last three supersonic multifunctional fighter-bomber Su-34s have entered service. The flight and engineering personnel to operate and maintain the Su-34 underwent retraining for new aviation equipment in the Lipetsk State Center for the Training of Aviation Personnel and received all the necessary certificates, ”said regiment commander Andrei Ermakov.
Comment bmpd. Thus, the 2nd Guards Combined Aviation Regiment of the 21st Combined Aviation Division of the 14th Smolensk Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Central Military District, stationed at the Shagol airfield (Chelyabinsk), received the last three Su-34 front-line bombers to re-equip this a regiment from Su-24M2 aircraft, and thus, the regiment now has a staff of 24 Su-34 aircraft (consisting of two squadrons).
The last Su-34 aircraft arriving in Shagol have red tail numbers "14", "15" and "16", and are the fourth, fifth and sixth bombers of this type built by the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant named after V.P. Chkalova (NAZ) PJSC "Company" Sukhoi "under the State Defense Order of 2019.
At the end of 2017, the 2nd Guards Mixed Aviation Regiment received the first six Su-34 bombers, which were manufactured by the NAZ under the state order order of 2017 (red tail numbers from “01” to “06”, with the last two aircraft arriving only in February 2018) . From May to December 2018, the regiment received another 12 Su-34 aircraft manufactured by the NAZ at the state procurement order of 2018 and having red tail numbers from 07 to 12 and from 20 to 25. In June 2019, the regiment received three more Su-34s with red tail numbers "26", "27" and "28", which became the first aircraft of this type built by the NAZ under the 2019 state defense order.
At the same time, the first 12 Su-34 regiments built in 2017-2018 did not arrive at the place of permanent deployment of the 2nd Regiment in Shagol, but were temporarily transferred to the 4th State Center for the Training of Aviation Personnel and Military Tests of the Ministry of Defense of Russia named after V.P. Chkalov in Lipetsk for retraining the flight personnel of the 2nd mixed regiment. Only from September 2018 to January 2019 did these 12 aircraft arrive from Lipetsk to Shagol.
In February 2018, upon completion of the retraining, the first four Su-34 regiment aircraft transferred at the end of 2017 (red tail numbers from 01 to 04) were transferred to the Russian air group at the Khmeimim air base in Syria. Subsequently, other regiment planes were also flown to Syria.
Three Su-34s, built in 2019 at the NAZ, transferred to the regiment in October 2019, and the Su-34 were manufactured under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense of February 2012 for 92 such aircraft. With their arrival, the total number of aircraft of this type transferred to the Aerospace Forces under the 2012 contract reached 88 units. The first two Su-34s under this contract were transferred to the Russian Air Force on December 24, 2013, the next 18 aircraft in 2014, another 18 aircraft in 2015, 16 in 2016, 16 in 2017, 12 in 2018 and now six - in 2019. The contract will be completed by the end of the year with the delivery of the remaining four Su-34 aircraft, which, according to some reports, have already been built.
The total number of Su-34s built under all contracts, including seven prototypes and pre-production models, reached 132 units.
so we have 125 produced under contracts and 118 in service now because some were lost or removed from service
with the next 4 Su-34s delivered all orders for the aircraft will have been concluded. I wonder if there is intention for an additional contract
ultimatewarrior- Posts : 798
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George1 wrote:https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3795166.htmlShagol Aviation Regiment completes rearmament to Su-34 front-line bombers
As Zvezda TV Channel reported on October 2, 2019, the mixed aviation regiment of the Central Military District (CVO), deployed in the Chelyabinsk Region, completed re-equipment for 4 ++ generation aircraft. At the Shagol airfield, the second squadron of Su-34 bombers was formed.
The air regiment is 100% equipped with new generation 4 ++ bombers. The compound near Chelyabinsk is the only one in the Central Military District, where the Su-34 is in service.
“Today, the last three supersonic multifunctional fighter-bomber Su-34s have entered service. The flight and engineering personnel to operate and maintain the Su-34 underwent retraining for new aviation equipment in the Lipetsk State Center for the Training of Aviation Personnel and received all the necessary certificates, ”said regiment commander Andrei Ermakov.
Comment bmpd. Thus, the 2nd Guards Combined Aviation Regiment of the 21st Combined Aviation Division of the 14th Smolensk Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Central Military District, stationed at the Shagol airfield (Chelyabinsk), received the last three Su-34 front-line bombers to re-equip this a regiment from Su-24M2 aircraft, and thus, the regiment now has a staff of 24 Su-34 aircraft (consisting of two squadrons).
The last Su-34 aircraft arriving in Shagol have red tail numbers "14", "15" and "16", and are the fourth, fifth and sixth bombers of this type built by the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant named after V.P. Chkalova (NAZ) PJSC "Company" Sukhoi "under the State Defense Order of 2019.
At the end of 2017, the 2nd Guards Mixed Aviation Regiment received the first six Su-34 bombers, which were manufactured by the NAZ under the state order order of 2017 (red tail numbers from “01” to “06”, with the last two aircraft arriving only in February 2018) . From May to December 2018, the regiment received another 12 Su-34 aircraft manufactured by the NAZ at the state procurement order of 2018 and having red tail numbers from 07 to 12 and from 20 to 25. In June 2019, the regiment received three more Su-34s with red tail numbers "26", "27" and "28", which became the first aircraft of this type built by the NAZ under the 2019 state defense order.
At the same time, the first 12 Su-34 regiments built in 2017-2018 did not arrive at the place of permanent deployment of the 2nd Regiment in Shagol, but were temporarily transferred to the 4th State Center for the Training of Aviation Personnel and Military Tests of the Ministry of Defense of Russia named after V.P. Chkalov in Lipetsk for retraining the flight personnel of the 2nd mixed regiment. Only from September 2018 to January 2019 did these 12 aircraft arrive from Lipetsk to Shagol.
In February 2018, upon completion of the retraining, the first four Su-34 regiment aircraft transferred at the end of 2017 (red tail numbers from 01 to 04) were transferred to the Russian air group at the Khmeimim air base in Syria. Subsequently, other regiment planes were also flown to Syria.
Three Su-34s, built in 2019 at the NAZ, transferred to the regiment in October 2019, and the Su-34 were manufactured under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense of February 2012 for 92 such aircraft. With their arrival, the total number of aircraft of this type transferred to the Aerospace Forces under the 2012 contract reached 88 units. The first two Su-34s under this contract were transferred to the Russian Air Force on December 24, 2013, the next 18 aircraft in 2014, another 18 aircraft in 2015, 16 in 2016, 16 in 2017, 12 in 2018 and now six - in 2019. The contract will be completed by the end of the year with the delivery of the remaining four Su-34 aircraft, which, according to some reports, have already been built.
The total number of Su-34s built under all contracts, including seven prototypes and pre-production models, reached 132 units.
so we have 125 produced under contracts and 118 in service now because some were lost or removed from service
with the next 4 Su-34s delivered all orders for the aircraft will have been concluded. I wonder if there is intention for an additional contract
When Su-24 replaced? It's pretty stupid Russian air force still uses turbojet powered planes.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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George1 wrote:
so we have 125 produced under contracts and 118 in service now because some were lost or removed from service
with the next 4 Su-34s delivered all orders for the aircraft will have been concluded. I wonder if there is intention for an additional contract
It's likely...they were talking about eventually having 200 of them, once the Su-24's are retired
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When Su-24 replaced? It's pretty stupid Russian air force still uses turbojet powered planes.
It has already been replaced, I think what you mean to say is when will it be retired from active service... they have got a few useful years left in them yet, though not enough to warrant a serious upgrade like re-engining them.
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As Syria proved, the Su-24 is still a very useful plane.
If not for low-altitude penetration into NATO's airspace as it was originally designed for, then certainly for low and high altitude accurate bombing in lower-intensity conflicts. In this role it's no worse than a Su-34. The Su-34s can be reserved for where they're actually needed.
I can easily see a few dozen of them remaining in service for another 15 years with some minor upgrades along the route, stationed in the N. Caucasus and Central Asia - in range of the Afghan border in particular. Some Su-24s can be given to Syria, and maybe 4-8 others employed in support of friendly forces in Libya and the CAR if Russia decides to more deeply engage in those countries.
Russia can save some money this way, and put it towards ordering more Su-30SMs, as well as Okhotniks at the same factory if orders there are needed.
If not for low-altitude penetration into NATO's airspace as it was originally designed for, then certainly for low and high altitude accurate bombing in lower-intensity conflicts. In this role it's no worse than a Su-34. The Su-34s can be reserved for where they're actually needed.
I can easily see a few dozen of them remaining in service for another 15 years with some minor upgrades along the route, stationed in the N. Caucasus and Central Asia - in range of the Afghan border in particular. Some Su-24s can be given to Syria, and maybe 4-8 others employed in support of friendly forces in Libya and the CAR if Russia decides to more deeply engage in those countries.
Russia can save some money this way, and put it towards ordering more Su-30SMs, as well as Okhotniks at the same factory if orders there are needed.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Taken from a belgian f-16. Not that huge IR signature for such a big aircraft. I remember a similar f-22 but it had afterburners on.
Arrow- Posts : 3492
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The F-22 had a smaller IR signature.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Arrow wrote:The F-22 had a smaller IR signature.
Yeah so much smaller ....
F-35 even more
. Its radar is also very hot. The cooling sucks.
medo- Posts : 4343
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It seems Sukhoi manage to design very effective cooling system for engines or they use special materials. In MAKS it was very interesting to watch all those new Sukhois, -30SM, -35 and -57, when in program they practicaly hover with full afterburners for more than 10 seconds, probably 15, without any overheating, which could lead to deformations or cracks in fixing bolts for engines. Usually planes used afterburners, when flying fast and flow of the air is cooling the engine.
ultimatewarrior- Posts : 798
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flamming_python wrote:As Syria proved, the Su-24 is still a very useful plane.
If not for low-altitude penetration into NATO's airspace as it was originally designed for, then certainly for low and high altitude accurate bombing in lower-intensity conflicts. In this role it's no worse than a Su-34. The Su-34s can be reserved for where they're actually needed.
I can easily see a few dozen of them remaining in service for another 15 years with some minor upgrades along the route, stationed in the N. Caucasus and Central Asia - in range of the Afghan border in particular. Some Su-24s can be given to Syria, and maybe 4-8 others employed in support of friendly forces in Libya and the CAR if Russia decides to more deeply engage in those countries.
Russia can save some money this way, and put it towards ordering more Su-30SMs, as well as Okhotniks at the same factory if orders there are needed.
Su-24 is very old plane. Still uses turbojets bleed fuel like crazy. All Su-24 should have been replaced by Su-34 by now. Su-34 has turbofans that double the range. All Su-24 should have been handed off to friendly countries especially to Syria.
ultimatewarrior- Posts : 798
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Arrow wrote:The F-22 had a smaller IR signature.
The bigger the engines, the hotter it is. Simple physics. Physics is laws of universe. No man can change physics.
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ultimatewarrior wrote:Arrow wrote:The F-22 had a smaller IR signature.
The bigger the engines, the hotter it is. Simple physics. Physics is laws of universe. No man can change physics.
Something that NATO ***** fanbois simply can't understand. Their education system is a PC indoctrination joke and not
something that actually teaches them useful levels of mathematics and physics. Thanks to PC affirmative action they
are not taught by competent teachers...
NATO ***** morons think that the F-35 is actually invisible to any detection system. That is the cartoon mental level
that they have.
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ultimatewarrior wrote:Arrow wrote:The F-22 had a smaller IR signature.
The bigger the engines, the hotter it is. Simple physics. Physics is laws of universe. No man can change physics.
It's not only about the size. Last generation of engines reach very high temperatures at burning fuel. It's around 2000oC and that it's why they need turbines from special materials that they could work at such high temperatures. But it's not only about turbines, but about whole engine and structure, which fix engine in the plane. Everything around become very hot. Usualy planes use efterburners when flying fast, that the flow of air around cool the structure around engine. It looks like Russians manage to create good cooling system around engines, that is why they don't have sich big IR picture and they could hover for a longer time with full afterburners.
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Su-24 is very old plane. Still uses turbojets bleed fuel like crazy. All Su-24 should have been replaced by Su-34 by now. Su-34 has turbofans that double the range. All Su-24 should have been handed off to friendly countries especially to Syria.
The Su-24 is not a new plane but it is only a couple of years older than the F-15... should they all be scrapped too?
Turbojets are actually rather common engine designs and are really not that different from low bypass turbofans in use today except fuel consumption... which is not really a huge concern for Russia ATM.
The F-22 had a smaller IR signature.
Not sure what you are thinking... that image of the Su-34 didn't seem very much different from the images of the so called stealthy high tech western aircraft... F-22 and F-35.
No one ever claimed the Su-34 was invisible... but plenty of claims of invisibility for F-22 and F-35... which, based on the photos posted are clearly not invisible at all in the IR range.... as you mention in fact their big powerful engines make them easy to spot at long ranges... in IR.
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GarryB wrote:Su-24 is very old plane. Still uses turbojets bleed fuel like crazy. All Su-24 should have been replaced by Su-34 by now. Su-34 has turbofans that double the range. All Su-24 should have been handed off to friendly countries especially to Syria.
The Su-24 is not a new plane but it is only a couple of years older than the F-15... should they all be scrapped too?
Turbojets are actually rather common engine designs and are really not that different from low bypass turbofans in use today except fuel consumption... which is not really a huge concern for Russia ATM.
The F-22 had a smaller IR signature.
Not sure what you are thinking... that image of the Su-34 didn't seem very much different from the images of the so called stealthy high tech western aircraft... F-22 and F-35.
No one ever claimed the Su-34 was invisible... but plenty of claims of invisibility for F-22 and F-35... which, based on the photos posted are clearly not invisible at all in the IR range.... as you mention in fact their big powerful engines make them easy to spot at long ranges... in IR.
Americans started using turbofan on F-111 in 1960s. Russia didn't start using turbofan until 1980s. Su-24 is a whole generation behind F-15. Su-34 has twice the combat radius as Su-24 because of turbofan instead of turbojet.
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ultimatewarrior wrote:Americans started using turbofan on F-111 in 1960s. Russia didn't start using turbofan until 1980s. Su-24 is a whole generation behind F-15. Su-34 has twice the combat radius as Su-24 because of turbofan instead of turbojet.
In Russia case point of comparison is irrelevant. Russia is not building new ones, it is using cheap but efficient modernization thus making exploits of unguided bombs as precision ones. When you draw a line it will use storage unguided bombs it would instead need to throw away as precision munition and inherited bombers to their end modernized for a fraction of a cost of a new one. In such story turbofan or turbojet is irrelevant as for a missions requiring longer range now has other means and even for the western front where AD is not sufficiently developed excellent low lvl penetrator in numbers.
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The doubled combat radius you quote is irrelevant in many operations. Also I doubt the Russians are overly worried about the fuel consumption.ultimatewarrior wrote:
Americans started using turbofan on F-111 in 1960s. Russia didn't start using turbofan until 1980s. Su-24 is a whole generation behind F-15. Su-34 has twice the combat radius as Su-24 because of turbofan instead of turbojet.
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JohninMK wrote:The doubled combat radius you quote is irrelevant in many operations. Also I doubt the Russians are overly worried about the fuel consumption.ultimatewarrior wrote:
Americans started using turbofan on F-111 in 1960s. Russia didn't start using turbofan until 1980s. Su-24 is a whole generation behind F-15. Su-34 has twice the combat radius as Su-24 because of turbofan instead of turbojet.
Radius is very important, specially when you have a fighter than can use cruise missiles. You can strike countries far away when needed. It gives you more "roads" for your operations in order to avoid a particular area.
Last edited by Isos on Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
GarryB- Posts : 40547
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Americans started using turbofan on F-111 in 1960s. Russia didn't start using turbofan until 1980s.
Oh get over yourself... the Americans are still using bombers BUILT in the 1950s and 1960s. B-52s are older than the PARENTS of many of their pilots today. And they still use the same weak as pitiful engines they did when they were built and there was nothing available at the time with enough power so they had to use 8 engines... which is terribly inefficient... how many other 8 engined aircraft have you ever heard of?
But it does they job they want it to do so they keep fixing it and keep using it... it creates its own smoke screen on take off...
Su-24 is a whole generation behind F-15.
No it isn't. F-15 is a fighter. There is a strike version called the F-15E, but it is a money saving attempt, because a huge wing is not conducive to high flight speeds at very low altitudes...
The Su-34 tries to improve performance with canards countering buffeting, but in modern combat both the F-15E and Su-34 will rely on stand off weapons rather than flying over targets and dropping bombs except in low intensity conflicts... and to be honest the Su-34 dropping dumb bombs on terrorists is a serious waste of resources when the Su-24 can do the job too.
Su-34 has twice the combat radius as Su-24 because of turbofan instead of turbojet.
More because it carries rather more internal fuel in a much larger aircraft, but both can operate in the same missions as both have inflight refuelling capacity. The only thing is that the Su-24 has more basic equipment and a more limited weapon load and capacity, but for bombing ISIS the Su-24 probably does it cheaper.
Radius is very important, specially when you have a fighter than can used cruise missile. You can strike countries far away when needed. It gives you more "roads" fornyour operations in order to avoid a particular era.
Inflight refuelling solves the radius issues, but the Su-34 can probably carry a wider variety of standoff weapons.
For real range and heavy weapons there is always the Backfire.
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Inflight refuelling solves the radius issues, but the Su-34 can probably carry a wider variety of standoff weapons.
Inflight refuelling is a heavy operation. In iran/iraq war, iran used its refuelling planes above iraq to bomb the west of iraq and it was very dangerous.
The smaller is your combat radius the more refuelling you will need.
For real range and heavy weapons there is always the Backfire.
They need an escort if they don't use kh-101. If they are spoted by fighters they are dead.
Su-34 can fight, bomb and jamm. It's the perfect modern fighter/bomber. Some could argue that it isn't stealth but with no weapon bay it would still carry its load externally destroying any stealth measure taken.
Su24 don't provide advance technology but they bring the numbers in the battle. Facing 6 su-34 +12 su24 is more complicated than only 10 su34.
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Production of Su-34 aircraft in Novosibirsk may cease
The newspaper “Vedomosti” in the material of Ivan Safronov “Production of military aircraft in Novosibirsk may cease. The new contract for Su-34 bombers is small, and it is better for them to load the plant in Komsomolsk” reports that the largest contract for the supply of non-strategic combat aircraft is the 2012 contract for 92 front-line bomber Su-34 in the amount of about 100 billion rubles is almost complete. But the new contract will be such that the assembly of aircraft will have to be transferred from Novosibirsk to the plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, a source close to the Russian Ministry of Defense says.
The other day, the second Su-34 squadron was formed as part of the 2nd Guards Mixed Aviation Regiment of the 21st Mixed Air Division of the 14th Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Central Military District, stationed at the Shagol airfield (Chelyabinsk). Three Su-34s arrived there on October 2, Zvezda TV Channel reported. Now there are 24 Su-34s in Shagol, their deliveries to the regiment are completed, confirms a person close to the Ministry of Defense. In total, the Novosibirsk Aircraft Plant (NAZ; a branch of AFK Sukhoi; part of the UAC) built 132 Su-34s for the Ministry of Defense, they armed four regiments. The contracts provided NAZ with a load for a decade, says a top manager of one of the aircraft manufacturing enterprises: despite the low profitability (about 3-5%), the plant could annually transfer 14-16 bombers to the military. But they only had to transfer four vehicles, and now the question arose about how many vehicles the military is ready to contract under the state armament program for 2018–2027.
According to a source close to the Ministry of Defense, the signing of a new contract for the Su-34 may take place at the end of 2019 - early 2020. The military is ready to purchase 48 aircraft, says a person in the aircraft industry, but this means that production will drop to six units a year: " The discussion is about whether it is worth maintaining a full-cycle production in Novosibirsk or is it more logical to transfer the assembly to the main Sukhoi site - the plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. ” With this decision, aggregate production will remain in Novosibirsk, the source said. NAZ is already assembling structural elements for the Sukhoi SuperJet passenger liner, the Tu-160 strategic bomber, and in the future it will be possible to assemble large Okhotnik drones. The Ministry of Defense did not respond to a request from Vedomosti.
The UAC faces a difficult choice: from an economic point of view, about half of the aircraft factories should be closed, but for social and political reasons this will be hindered by local authorities and the Kremlin, says Konstantin Makienko, an expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. But it’s better to close them now, if possible reprofiling for the production of aircraft units, than to waste the next subsidies, the expert believes.
Today, the share of the plant’s load in the framework of inter-plant cooperation is already more than 40% of the total production, the UAC representative says. It will grow, for today there are no decisions on changing the production model of the enterprise. “Given the expected decrease in state defense orders, various options for the development of the industrial model of the UAC as a whole and the place of each enterprise in this model, including NAZ, are being worked out,” the source said.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3800433.html