Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

ahmedfire wrote:

Anyway they used as much capability as they could and they FAILED with all the US jam Pods and missiles and new aircrafts , their tactics were completely known by the Egyptian generals that time .

BTW, what is the story with these damn things, man?  Have you heard anything else besides the Iran rumors?



Take a look at these oldies from 1982 when the first F-16s and Mirage 2000s were arriving in Egypt and a demonstration was taking place probably for some dignitaries.  First one was a Mirage 2K demo (Egyptian pilot even does a negative G pushover and a slow, high AoA fly-by) and after he lands, he squares up with an F-16 which goes and chases the Mirage in a mock dogfight in the second one.  Some great stuff despite the terrible filming.

I'd love to know exactly how India got to circumvent CAATSA for their purchase of the S-400. Not sure which item between the two present a bigger threat in general, not that it's the issue, but just out of curiosity when comparing the two in the grand scheme of the threat of sanctions. I would think the Su-35s would be but either way, how did India get the US to nullify CAATSA in their case? I have a feeling that in return, they agreed to eventually purchase the F/A-18 Super Hornet for their new aircraft carrier instead of the Rafale M., giving the US another chance at sticking it to the French those poor bastards!

I don't think India made any deal, I think the US is in the courtship stage and is trying to woo India into giving up Russia as a supplier and trade partner and to start trading with the US and the west instead... part of it is a developing country with 1.3 billion consumers, but part of it is also a neighbour of China and 1.3 billion rounds of cannon fodder that would be excellent for soaking up Chinas numbers advantage.

The US isn't in a position to dictate to India because India does not have enough US equipment embedded in their military whose support could be cut off to make them vulnerable, so the US will complain and make its feelings known but wont actually impose any real sanctions on India for buying Russian stuff because they don't want India to turn away from the US the way Russia and China already seem to have done.

India is keen to get the investment and money spent on them to replace China as the sweat shop of the west, so they are interested but they know Patriot is not good and is also very expensive, and THAAD is even worse, while S-400 is very combat capable and a benchmark other systems are measured by.

BTW honestly I would say if they have to go for a western aircraft for new carriers then the Rafale would be the best choice, but would triple the cost of the carrier (and carriers are already expensive).

And Tom Cooper can spare ALL us Arabs his sympathies.

The problem with Tom is the same for any American "expert", his interest in middle eastern combat means he is rather better informed on the details... in the same way that say Stephen J Zaloga might be better informed about the combat on the eastern front than most Americans who think Pearl Harbour and D Day and all you need is US strategic bombing and that was the whole history of WWII.

Tom loves his F-14 so he rebels against the anti Iranian rhetoric, but that does not make his opinions and bias's right... just less bad than most other Americans.

BTW, what is the story with these damn things, man? Have you heard anything else besides the Iran rumors?

They look like optical targeting pods, but why you would carry so many I don't know... maybe testing from multiple pylons that can each carry TV or IR guided weapons, or perhaps practising engaging multiple targets at once using pods to simulate the seekers of the actual weapons which remain captive anyway when testing, but lower drag and lighter weight.

Hard to say.

Maybe stereoscopic rangefinding technique for stealth aircraft...

GarryB wrote:
They look like optical targeting pods, but why you would carry so many I don't know... maybe testing from multiple pylons that can each carry TV or IR guided weapons, or perhaps practising engaging multiple targets at once using pods to simulate the seekers of the actual weapons which remain captive anyway when testing, but lower drag and lighter weight.

Hard to say.

Maybe stereoscopic rangefinding technique for stealth aircraft...  

I meant the actual aircraft itself.  You seem to be right with those pods, we were told they were simply "missile training" pods, whatever that means lol. Your description is much better.  There was an Egyptian delegation in Russia just a few weeks ago meeting with Russian military officials but we don't know what it was about.  Some are saying they seemed to be interested in the new TOR M3 with the Viking system that enhances its range to 100km, but besides members of the EADS, there was also a member of the EAF there, the one in the blue uniform.  I just wish they would give closure to the Su-35 saga once and for all, one way or the other instead of not saying anything.  Leaving us hanging sucks.

Gomig-21 wrote:
The Jews did their work well.  They knew quite well how history judged them in the past and they made sure they controlled the narrative in this historical context, while us dumbass ass Egyptians never cared about what the world thought to be sure our stories were well recorded & documented and passed through the "beneficial" channels.

Prior to getting 1973 The First Nuclear War... I didn't see the Israeli version of the 14th in any of TC's works, which drew heavily on Egyptian sources and were sympathetic to them.

I just wish they would give closure to the Su-35 saga once and for all, one way or the other instead of not saying anything. Leaving us hanging sucks.

They have a number of options and each option has consequences and I guess they are not committing to one option or another until they see the best offers each party makes... many countries put up with controlling manipulative America because they also think they will have their back in a spat... well ask Ukraine and I think they probably expected rather more... like troops on the ground sort of help.

It all ultimately depends on who the enemy is at the time... for Egypt you would probably get US support against any of your neighbours except Israel, but the odds are that Israel would probably be the only potential enemy you would want help against, which means the US would need to offer a good deal or lots of trade and commercial benefits... which they often do.

That's from the old ACIG narrative. Based on more recent research, TC et al wrote a new version in their 1973: The First Nuclear War Crucial Air Battles of the October 1973 Arab-Israeli war. The # of F-4s committed was much smaller than originally claimed.

A new version of a research or a book doesn't necessarly to be true , i remember Pollack claimed the first wave of Egyptian strikes had failed which is a joke that even Israelis couldn't tell .

David Nicolle  mentioned higher numbers ,anyway It doesn't matter how many aircraft they used ,what matters they used what they see as an enough number of aircrafts to achieve their mission and they badly failed.

Yeah I know, what are you gonna do. This will always be the case. The Jews did their work well. They knew quite well how history judged them in the past and they made sure they controlled the narrative in this historical context, while us dumbass ass Egyptians never cared about what the world thought to be sure our stories were well recorded & documented and passed through the "beneficial" channels.

And Tom Cooper can spare ALL us Arabs his sympathies.

Quite true but i would care more about final results , they left a land which is considered to them a Holy place, they put their own citizens in cages to threw them out of it.

BTW, what is the story with these damn things, man?  Have you heard anything else besides the Iran rumors?

I wasn't active last months but seems no new news about it , i hope everything is going smoothly specially during the current war .

ahmedfire wrote:
i remember Pollack claimed the first wave of Egyptian strikes had failed...

He didn't claim that. He wrote that high losses incurred by the first wave caused cancellation of the second. Btw TC's newer work is more likely to be true, in his own judgment, than his older version.

David Nicolle  mentioned higher numbers ,anyway It doesn't matter how many aircraft they used ,what matters they used what they see as an enough number of aircrafts to achieve their mission and they badly failed.

Of course they failed to neutralize the EAF, but the IAF didn't suffer losses on the 14th, except for one due to "friendly fire."

starman wrote:
Of course they failed to neutralize the EAF, but the IAF didn't suffer losses on the 14th, except for one due to "friendly fire."

Of course because we Egyptians are nothing but scumbag liars and made up a whole holiday celebrating an event that "never happened" because we're untrustworthy scum of the earth liars. You even think there were no Skyhawks when I clearly showed you a pic after you challenged me on where is the wreckage LOLOL and STILLLLLLL we're lying dirtbag lowlifes. That's ok. It is what it is.

We're moving on, now.

Gomig-21 wrote:
Of course because we Egyptians are nothing but scumbag liars

I was just reporting TC's view and while he is sympathetic to the Egyptians--he insists the Egyptian version must be included--his main concern is the truth, revealed by careful research.

and made up a whole holiday celebrating an event that "never happened" because we're untrustworthy scum of the earth liars.

The putative victory of the 14th was made up by Sadat or his allies for political reasons, to strengthen Mubarack.

 You even think there were no Skyhawks when I clearly showed you a pic after you challenged me on where is the wreckage

Believe me I don't doubt the Egyptians downed Skyhawks, just not on the 14th when--according to all the accounts I've seen air combat pitted MIG-21s against F-4s only.

We're moving on, now.

Hope so…..

starman wrote:

Gomig-21 wrote:
Of course because we Egyptians are nothing but scumbag liars

I was just reporting TC's view and while he is sympathetic to the Egyptians--he insists the Egyptian version must be included--his main concern is the truth, revealed by careful research.

and made up a whole holiday celebrating an event that "never happened" because we're untrustworthy scum of the earth liars.

The putative victory of the 14th was made up by Sadat or his allies for political reasons, to strengthen Mubarack.

 You even think there were no Skyhawks when I clearly showed you a pic after you challenged me on where is the wreckage

Believe me I don't doubt the Egyptians downed Skyhawks, just not on the 14th when--according to all the accounts I've seen air combat pitted MIG-21s against F-4s only.

We're moving on, now.

Hope so…..

I mean I've sent you videos from Kissinger himself that discredits Wikipedia's Numbers and you still larping on it So just keep inhaling that Pure Ugandian Copium and watch the Egyptian flag flying high over Sinai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHYLLlo9uXc&t=1s

awmz wrote:
I mean I've sent you videos from Kissinger himself that discredits Wikipedia's Numbers...

I wasn't using wiki's numbers but info from books by TC and others.

starman wrote:

awmz wrote:
I mean I've sent you videos from Kissinger himself that discredits Wikipedia's Numbers...

I wasn't using wiki's numbers but info from books by TC and others.

They have to get their discredited info from somewhere right

awmz wrote:
They have to get their discredited info from somewhere right

Their info is from surviving participants of the battle. With regard to the 14th TC noted that, with the exception of the F-4 lost to friendly fire, there is no corroboration for any claim of either side. The IAF definitely lost an F-4 to Egyptian (SAM-3) fire when it returned to the Delta the next day.

starman wrote:

awmz wrote:
They have to get their discredited info from somewhere right

Their info is from surviving participants of the battle. With regard to the 14th TC noted that, with the exception of the F-4 lost to friendly fire, there is no corroboration for any claim of either side. The IAF definitely lost an F-4 to Egyptian (SAM-3) fire when it returned to the Delta the next day.

Which Surviving participants? Also how much does this video trigger you be honest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHYLLlo9uXc&t=1s

awmz wrote:
Which Surviving participants?

Qadri Hamid, Nassr Mousa, Ben Eliyahu, Medhat Arafa, Naftali Maimon, Amir Nahumi, Ahmed Wakeel, Iftach Spector. Of course Qadri Hamid is gone now--perhaps others too- but he survived the war and gave his account to researchers.

Would not require a targeting pod as the Kh-35 is radar guided so the aircrafts nose mounted radar could find targets and provide information to the missile for it to find the target for itself.

GarryB wrote:Would not require a targeting pod as the Kh-35 is radar guided so the aircrafts nose mounted radar could find targets and provide information to the missile for it to find the target for itself.

In ground attack mode I suspect they use GPS/Glonass or INS with coordinates put into the missile. No radar and no targeting pod.

Radar is used to find ships at sea.

What a disgrace.  It's almost akin to that scum sucking hog who was smiling with joy as he insulted the great Egyptian MiG-21 pilot flying his MiG trying everything he possibly could to evade a filthy land-grabbing thief on his six from killing him while even trying a split-S at 3000ft only to listen to those filthy arrogant scum call him a "crazy Egyptian pilot". The absolute lack of respect for a man trying to liberate his land and possibly paying for it with his life is the lowest form of scum-guttery. Except to be told you're celebrating an event that didn't even happen is much worst.  An absolute insult of the worse kind.

This is the treatment this great country gets after being attacked by those filthy land-stealing scum with the help of the Brits and French at the time and then to repeat it again 10 years later under some phony pretense.  Then you're labeled the scum of the earth and kept down with a knee to your neck for the next 40+ years and when you dare to venture out and look for other sources to strengthen your sovereignty, you're bombarded with threats of the worst kind.

Some might accuse Egypt for being ungrateful for all the military aid it has recieved in those 40 years but let's not kid oursleves. That's a miniscule price the US has paid to get the unconditional guarantees it has from Egypt for that entire period. Ask the population if they would give that up for a self-reliant military and you'd get an overwhelming response in favor of giving it up in a heartbeat than to be tied down by it.

I suppose Russia knows all about that kind of chastisement as it has dealt with decades of being treated that way by the west, culminating in its complete demonization as a result of its special military operation in Ukraine.  Funny how practically the entire world has rushed to Ukraine's side to be sure they bleed Russia into the grave, but where was all that assistance and resources when those filthy. land-thieving scum stole the entire Sinai Peninsula?  Not once, but TWICE!  Yet not one western country came to Egypt help like they all rushed in to jump on the Ukrainian anti-Russian bandwagon.  Thank God for Eisenhower who had the balls to put those 3 thieving scum of the time in their place and too bad no one of his character was around in 1967 to do the same thing, and neither was the rest of the world except for Russia.

And now there are rumors that the Viper upgrade for a large portion of the EAF's approximate 176 F-16s is right around the corner.  If there is any truth to that, then we can certainly kiss the Su-35 deal goodbye which would be the ultimate shame in more ways than one.

If it were up to me, I would tell the US to go to hell and kick rocks while it's at it and see if it has the balls to implement CAATSA and if it does, turn the tide of allyship and use any of the strong diplomacy Egypt has developed with many other countries in the last 9 years to strengthen its position against any sanctions.

These things are perfectly fine the way they are and in no way does a viper upgrade surpass the freedom those deadly Flankers give Egypt along with its eventual 54 Rafales, 46 MiG-29M/M2s that can then turn into 100+ with the ripping of CAATSA and additional MiG-35 orders and the latest Russian weapons to go along with those fighters as well as the European weapons it can get its hands on.  It's time Egypt stood up to the US and not fold like a piece of cardboard.

In ground attack mode I suspect they use GPS/Glonass or INS with coordinates put into the missile. No radar and no targeting pod.

Radar is used to find ships at sea.

The Kh-35 has an excellent MMW radar that is perfectly capable of detecting ground targets in or near a ground coordinate... the long range view of a ship from 300km would be adequate for the missile to identify the target based on its radar signature as it approaches, and I would say the same for a building or group of buildings or a large structure like a bridge.

I suppose Russia knows all about that kind of chastisement as it has dealt with decades of being treated that way by the west, culminating in its complete demonization as a result of its special military operation in Ukraine.

You can be a good little lap dog for decades, but if you put a foot wrong... it is all for nothing... during the 70s it was Saddam that helped the Americans, and in the 1980s he was their golden boy again fighting them evil Iranians... it wasn't till he invaded Kuwaite and threatened to take over Saudi Arabia and therefore create a powerful Arab state with lots of oil that he became the bad guy the west has bombed and sanctioned since.

It's time Egypt stood up to the US and not fold like a piece of cardboard.

If Egypt is happy being limited and restricted in economic growth and development then the US is a good partner, but they will keep you where you are and you will have to vote the way they vote in everything they care about to keep that.

BRICS is about the second and third world working together to create a situation where they can get conditions as good as or better than western countries or first world countries... and not through violence or competition, but through cooperation and respect.

I get the sense that Egypt is surrounded by a complex of nations with varying interests and alliances and to throw shade at America, even now, could be dangerous. I didnt start to grasp this till I found out our influence in the "Arab spring" and groups like the muslim brotherhood. Egyptian military gets a lot of crap and I can guess in the political madness there is a fair share of corruption but thry single handedly wrested Egypt from being under complete US control from what I can understand.

The Kh-35 has an excellent MMW radar that is perfectly capable of detecting ground targets in or near a ground coordinate... the long range view of a ship from 300km would be adequate for the missile to identify the target based on its radar signature as it approaches, and I would say the same for a building or group of buildings or a large structure like a bridge.

Radar may be good but I foubt it has the processing power to scn an entire city and find the right building.

A Glonass receiver is a small cheap annd does the job.

It's a perfect cruise missile for Egypt considering its neighbours. It will do the job.

Gomig-21 wrote:  It's almost akin to that scum sucking hog who was smiling with joy as he insulted the great Egyptian MiG-21 pilot flying his MiG trying everything he possibly could to evade a filthy land-grabbing thief on his six from killing him while even trying a split-S at 3000ft only to listen to those filthy arrogant scum call him a "crazy Egyptian pilot".  

I saw the vid. If he was being pursued by a Mirage/nesher why didn't he just descend to low altitude, since the 30mm guns of the enemy pointed upwards? Maybe he wouldn't have had enough fuel to return to base that way...


 

It's time Egypt stood up to the US and not fold like a piece of cardboard.

Right.

Radar may be good but I foubt it has the processing power to scn an entire city and find the right building.

A Glonass receiver is a small cheap annd does the job.

If it carries both why not use both?

The MiG-29M/35 has a nose mounted radar and amongst other things has a navigation system that tells it where it is... based on radar information it can calculate an object on radars coordinates too and it would also see with its radar not just the target building but all the buildings around it too.

The missile will know the coordinates of the target building and will not have to scan the entire city or the entire ocean for a ship it is after.

A radar sensor can see the target and check it is the correct target and can then be used to hit a specific part of the building rather than an arbitrary ground coordinate.