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JohninMKYes but only for the wreck, not survivors.d_taddei2 wrote:Anymore info on the sub? Are they still looking?
Seems to be a World Navy search going on. The Russian 'research' ship Yantar has just arrived.
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miketheterrible
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Argentina Military: News
JohninMK- Posts : 15638
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Seems to be a World Navy search going on. The Russian 'research' ship Yantar has just arrived.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
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Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
Airman wrote:
With all due respect for the perished in those incidents, gentlemen at AFP forgot to add Minerve (S647), USS Thresher (SSN-593) and USS Scorpion (SSN-589) to this list...
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PapaDragon wrote:Airman wrote:
With all due respect for the perished in those incidents, gentlemen at AFP forgot to add Minerve (S647), USS Thresher (SSN-593) and USS Scorpion (SSN-589) to this list...
This seems to be list of fairly recent incidents.
George1- Posts : 18519
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Argentina finally bought five decommissioned French deck aircraft Super Etendard
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3072308.html
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3072308.html
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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Location : AZ, USA
Perhaps the Argentine submarine "San Juan" is found
http://www.ng.ru/news/627707.html?print=Y
http://www.ng.ru/news/627707.html?print=Y
Admin- Posts : 2926
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Argentina signed for 4 Gowind corvettes, France is just waiting on payment.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Sub has been found
At red dot near middle of the search area
Disappointingly, as far as I can make out it was in an area Yantar went over possibly several times.
At red dot near middle of the search area
Disappointingly, as far as I can make out it was in an area Yantar went over possibly several times.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Pics
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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a lot of ships were looking for it in that area. Took a private company to find it.
Isos- Posts : 11601
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miketheterrible wrote:a lot of ships were looking for it in that area. Took a private company to find it.
And when you know that modern mines are just torpedos 1000 time smaller than this waiting on the bottom silently ...
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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Argentina hides the truth about the death of San Juan submarine
The Yantar' couldn't find it- was it looking in the wrong places or its equipment is inferior?
The sub isn't worth salvaging; the crew is reduced to bones now- my condolences to their families.
Women still wishing to serve on subs worldwide & esp. in Argentina got a wake up call.
The Yantar' couldn't find it- was it looking in the wrong places or its equipment is inferior?
The sub isn't worth salvaging; the crew is reduced to bones now- my condolences to their families.
Women still wishing to serve on subs worldwide & esp. in Argentina got a wake up call.
GarryB- Posts : 40539
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Might have been the case that they were detecting it at the wrong angle and didn't recognise it for what it was... and that is for all the other platforms that missed this wreck?
This quote says quite a bit:
From here:
https://news.usni.org/2018/11/17/u-s-underwater-mapping-firm-finds-wreckage-missing-argentine-sub
This quote says quite a bit:
“There’s some quite interesting sea life and geographical features. It’s extraordinary how many submarine-shaped and -sized rocks are down there,” Plunkett previously said. “There’ve been a number of times the guys on the ship got excited because there’s something 40 meters long, 5 meters wide, 6 meters high, and it’s turned out to be wrong. It’s truly astonishing.”
From here:
https://news.usni.org/2018/11/17/u-s-underwater-mapping-firm-finds-wreckage-missing-argentine-sub
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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The stormy S. Atlantic is not a place to operate old SSKs.
Argentina should get new SSKs or follow Brazil in developing an SSN, if she could afford it.
Argentina should get new SSKs or follow Brazil in developing an SSN, if she could afford it.
d_taddei2- Posts : 3027
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Age had nothing to do with the disaster. Russia and many other countries operate subs from the 1980's in fact I believe usa still operate a sub from the 1970's and taiwan in 2017 spent around $19-20mn refitting a sub from ww2 era it's still in active service although likely for training purposes I'd imagine it's at least 80 yrs old. And Russia still operates the [size=35]Kommuna a ship that was commissioned in 1915 that's 103yrs old and why because it still does the job although doing a job slightly different of its original job but still useful and it would cost Russia 100's millions of dollars to build new one so no point when refitting old one still does the job u want it too. Although I know subs are a bit different but the Argentine wasn't exactly old old it was likely down to bad servicing, malfunction or crew error [/size]Tsavo Lion wrote:The stormy S. Atlantic is not a place to operate old SSKs.
Argentina should get new SSKs or follow Brazil in developing an SSN, if she could afford it.
George1- Posts : 18519
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Vladimir79 wrote:Argentina signed for 4 Gowind corvettes, France is just waiting on payment.
it will be the OPV version
https://www.janes.com/article/84948/argentina-confirms-the-purchase-of-four-french-opvs?from_rss=1
The government of Argentina has approved the contract to purchase four Gowind-class offshore patrol vessel (OPV) 87s from French shipbuilder DCNS for a total of EUR319 million (USD363 million).
The purchase includes the already built L'Adroit , which in 2016 visited the region on a marketing trip, and three new vessels.
L'Adroit, launched in 2011, will undergo maintenance and will receive some modifications prior to delivery to Argentina in 2019. The acquisition will be equally financed by three institutions: the French Credit Agricole Corporate and Investment Bank, Natixis SA also from France, and the Spanish bank Banco Santander SA.
The four OPVs will reinforce a diminished force that has suffered many financial and operational constraints during the past decades.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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I find it odd how Argentina will purchase French weapons after the fact France gave Intel to England regarding the anti ship missiles during Falklands war.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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Those OPVs won't be dealing with the RN anyway, so why not?
Isos- Posts : 11601
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miketheterrible wrote:I find it odd how Argentina will purchase French weapons after the fact France gave Intel to England regarding the anti ship missiles during Falklands war.
First, UK had exocet so they knew pretty much everything about them.
Second, even if you know perfectly a system doesn't make it useless. One exocet was fooled by chaffs but then targeted another ship in the group.
Third, there were french technicians in argentina working on the exocets (maintenance work) when war started. Officially they did nothing. Unofficially they were active in upgrading them.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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miketheterrible wrote:I find it odd how Argentina will purchase French weapons after the fact France gave Intel to England regarding the anti ship missiles during Falklands war.
The current govt. running Buenos Aires is a neo-liberal govt. According to neo-liberals buying weapons is a way to buy favors, and even supersedes military doctrine. That strategy has worked so well for the Saudi-Might military, what could go wrong?
d_taddei2- Posts : 3027
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I actually think its safer to buy the Yak-130 just as good if not better due to more types of weapons available although its pretty much the same aircraft. Its safer to buy from a country (Russia) which is unlikely going to put scantions on you at a moments notice like western countries due normally thtough USA pressure. Although article does say Argentina is getting FA-50 Fighting Eagle instead, all aircraft FA-50(KAI T-50), M346, YAk-130 are all capable and most likely all Argentina needs and can afford. Although i still think it would be cheaper for them to continue their FMA IA-63 Pampa program, for them now looking at very similar aircraft tells me that there must be a production problem. Because Argentina paid $30.3 million for x3 phase 3 IA-63 Pampa i know they did have cash problems. Still think that Argentina would be better off buying a mix of upgraded overhaulled Su-24, Yak-130 and Mig-29M2 although not in great numbers as they still have their FMA IA 58 Pucará for COIN. But Su-30SM would be ideal choice if they had the cash.
https://www.janes.com/article/90007/leonardo-not-giving-up-on-argentina-fighter-bid?utm_campaign=PC6110_E19%20DF%20NL%20Defence%2030_07_19&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua
https://www.janes.com/article/90007/leonardo-not-giving-up-on-argentina-fighter-bid?utm_campaign=PC6110_E19%20DF%20NL%20Defence%2030_07_19&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua
GarryB- Posts : 40539
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Russia would no doubt be happy to expand trade with Argentina... I am sure a few trade deals for all sorts of different things could make both countries some money and improve and develop both countries, and the resulting good will might lead to Russia offering deals that would be both useful for Argentina and a bit of a slap in the face to the Russian hating British establishment.
Perhaps a new product from Sukhoi... and Su-35 on the cheap... a sort of like the MiG-29M2 which can be expanded to a MiG-35 with the replacement of a few (expensive) bits.
Buy the lower cost model and then upgrade in 5 years time... or for a particular occasion...
Of course the real problem is that, while an Su-35 is going to be 50-60 million or more... some of the weapons are going to be very very expensive too...
Perhaps they could offset the cost by setting up a support centre for Sukhoi civil and military aircraft to make it cheaper to operate such aircraft in the region... Su-30s would probably be the best way to go... but make a bit of extra money supporting other Sukhois in the region as well as Superjets if they come.
Perhaps a new product from Sukhoi... and Su-35 on the cheap... a sort of like the MiG-29M2 which can be expanded to a MiG-35 with the replacement of a few (expensive) bits.
Buy the lower cost model and then upgrade in 5 years time... or for a particular occasion...
Of course the real problem is that, while an Su-35 is going to be 50-60 million or more... some of the weapons are going to be very very expensive too...
Perhaps they could offset the cost by setting up a support centre for Sukhoi civil and military aircraft to make it cheaper to operate such aircraft in the region... Su-30s would probably be the best way to go... but make a bit of extra money supporting other Sukhois in the region as well as Superjets if they come.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5960
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I just hope they can afford them!
GarryB- Posts : 40539
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The fact of the matter is that most countries really can't justify the expense of such things, but they do anyway... I am sure there are a lot of important things Argentina could buy they could get a lot more value out of that weapons, but in the current world we live in weapons are necessary because for some countries the rule of law and international law means nothing when it suits them.
George1- Posts : 18519
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Argentine Navy Gets L'Adroit Gowind French Patrol Ship
On December 6, 2019, in Toulon, a ceremony took place by the French shipbuilding association Naval Group to the Argentine fleet of the L'Adroit Gowind type patrol ship, formerly part of the French Navy. The ship received the traditional name for the Argentinean fleet Bouchard in honor of the famous Argentine captain of French descent Hipolito de Bouchard (1780 - 1837), and is due to arrive in Argentina on or about December 23.
Recall that in November 2018, the Ministry of Defense of Argentina entered into a contract worth 319.02468 million euros for the acquisition in France and four patrol ships of the Gowind type. Under the contract, Argentina acquired the P 725 L'Adroit Gowind patrol ship, which was previously part of the French fleet, and ordered the construction of three more of the same type Gowind OPV 90 patrol ships of the French company Kership (a joint venture of the French Naval Group and the French shipbuilding company). Piriou company). The construction of three 87-meter-long patrol ships of the Gowind OPV 90 type for the Argentinean Navy will be carried out at the Naval Group's arsenal in Loriana with delivery in 2021 and 2022.
This contract was the first order Argentina new warships in more than 30 years. The contract is financed through a credit line provided to the Argentine government by a consortium of banks consisting of Credit Agricole, Natixis and Banco Santander.
The first patrol ship L'Adroit, now received by Argentina, was built in 2010-2011 in the arsenal in Loriana at its own expense by the French shipbuilding association DCNS (current Naval Group) as the lead demonstrator ship of the Gowind type in the OPV 90 design variant (in construction and on tests had the temporary name Hermes). In 2012, L'Adroit was leased to DCNS by the French Navy for a three-year term for use as a patrol ship; since 2015, the lease term was extended on the basis of annual agreements, but in 2018 the ship was withdrawn from the French Navy and returned to the Naval Group. In the past few years, the Naval Group has been actively looking for a buyer abroad for this ship and eventually sold it to Argentina.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3869554.html
On December 6, 2019, in Toulon, a ceremony took place by the French shipbuilding association Naval Group to the Argentine fleet of the L'Adroit Gowind type patrol ship, formerly part of the French Navy. The ship received the traditional name for the Argentinean fleet Bouchard in honor of the famous Argentine captain of French descent Hipolito de Bouchard (1780 - 1837), and is due to arrive in Argentina on or about December 23.
Recall that in November 2018, the Ministry of Defense of Argentina entered into a contract worth 319.02468 million euros for the acquisition in France and four patrol ships of the Gowind type. Under the contract, Argentina acquired the P 725 L'Adroit Gowind patrol ship, which was previously part of the French fleet, and ordered the construction of three more of the same type Gowind OPV 90 patrol ships of the French company Kership (a joint venture of the French Naval Group and the French shipbuilding company). Piriou company). The construction of three 87-meter-long patrol ships of the Gowind OPV 90 type for the Argentinean Navy will be carried out at the Naval Group's arsenal in Loriana with delivery in 2021 and 2022.
This contract was the first order Argentina new warships in more than 30 years. The contract is financed through a credit line provided to the Argentine government by a consortium of banks consisting of Credit Agricole, Natixis and Banco Santander.
The first patrol ship L'Adroit, now received by Argentina, was built in 2010-2011 in the arsenal in Loriana at its own expense by the French shipbuilding association DCNS (current Naval Group) as the lead demonstrator ship of the Gowind type in the OPV 90 design variant (in construction and on tests had the temporary name Hermes). In 2012, L'Adroit was leased to DCNS by the French Navy for a three-year term for use as a patrol ship; since 2015, the lease term was extended on the basis of annual agreements, but in 2018 the ship was withdrawn from the French Navy and returned to the Naval Group. In the past few years, the Naval Group has been actively looking for a buyer abroad for this ship and eventually sold it to Argentina.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3869554.html
George1- Posts : 18519
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Argentina received the first Gowind patrol ship built for it in France
April 16th, 1:07
On April 13, 2021, at the shipyard of the French shipbuilding company Piriou in Concarneau (on the Atlantic coast of France), the completed patrol ship P 52 Piedrabuena was handed over to the Argentine naval forces - the lead of the three ordered by Argentina in 2018 under the Gowind OPV87 project under a contract with the French shipyard the merger of the Naval Group. The construction of the ships under this contract is carried out by Kership, a joint venture between Piriou and the Naval Group, the latter being the designer, integrator and prime contractor for the construction and delivery of these ships.
Recall that in November 2018, the Argentine Ministry of Defense signed a contract worth 319.02468 million euros for the purchase of four Gowind-class patrol ships in France. According to the contract, Argentina acquired for its Navy the P 725 L'Adroit patrol ship of the Gowind type, which was previously part of the French fleet , and also ordered the construction of three more almost identical patrol ships of the Gowind OPV 87 type (also used the designation of the OPV 90 project) of the Kership company (joint the Naval Group and Piriou).
This contract was the first order by Argentina of newly built warships in more than 30 years. The contract is financed through a line of credit provided to the Argentine government by a consortium of banks comprising Credit Agricole, Natixis and Banco Santander.
In accordance with the contract, on December 6, 2019 in Toulon, the L'Adroit patrol ship was transferred to Argentina , which entered the Argentine Navy as P 51 Bouchard and arrived in Argentina at the end of December 2019. It was originally builtin 2010-2011 in the arsenal in Loriana for its own funds by the French shipbuilding association DCNS (the current Naval Group) as the lead demonstration ship of the Gowind type in the OPV 90 project version, and had the temporary name Hermes during construction and testing . In 2012, she was leased to DCNS by the French Navy for a three-year lease for use as a patrol ship called P 725 L'Adroit , since 2015 the lease has been renewed on the basis of annual agreements, but in 2018 the ship was withdrawn from the French Navy. and returned to the Naval Group, which actively sought a buyer abroad for this ship and eventually sold it to Argentina.
The construction of three new 87-meter patrol ships of the Gowind OPV 87 type for the Argentine Navy is being contracted by the Piriou shipbuilding company in Concarneau. The lead ship P 52 Piedrabuena was laid down there in 2019 and officially launched on October 1, 2020 (the first technical launch took place on July 4). Factory sea trials of the ship began on February 25, 2021, and now it has been handed over to an Argentine customer. It is reported that the second ship under construction there P 53 Almirante Storni should be delivered to Argentina by the end of 2021, and the third P 54 Bartolomé Cordero - in 2022.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4293160.html
April 16th, 1:07
On April 13, 2021, at the shipyard of the French shipbuilding company Piriou in Concarneau (on the Atlantic coast of France), the completed patrol ship P 52 Piedrabuena was handed over to the Argentine naval forces - the lead of the three ordered by Argentina in 2018 under the Gowind OPV87 project under a contract with the French shipyard the merger of the Naval Group. The construction of the ships under this contract is carried out by Kership, a joint venture between Piriou and the Naval Group, the latter being the designer, integrator and prime contractor for the construction and delivery of these ships.
Recall that in November 2018, the Argentine Ministry of Defense signed a contract worth 319.02468 million euros for the purchase of four Gowind-class patrol ships in France. According to the contract, Argentina acquired for its Navy the P 725 L'Adroit patrol ship of the Gowind type, which was previously part of the French fleet , and also ordered the construction of three more almost identical patrol ships of the Gowind OPV 87 type (also used the designation of the OPV 90 project) of the Kership company (joint the Naval Group and Piriou).
This contract was the first order by Argentina of newly built warships in more than 30 years. The contract is financed through a line of credit provided to the Argentine government by a consortium of banks comprising Credit Agricole, Natixis and Banco Santander.
In accordance with the contract, on December 6, 2019 in Toulon, the L'Adroit patrol ship was transferred to Argentina , which entered the Argentine Navy as P 51 Bouchard and arrived in Argentina at the end of December 2019. It was originally builtin 2010-2011 in the arsenal in Loriana for its own funds by the French shipbuilding association DCNS (the current Naval Group) as the lead demonstration ship of the Gowind type in the OPV 90 project version, and had the temporary name Hermes during construction and testing . In 2012, she was leased to DCNS by the French Navy for a three-year lease for use as a patrol ship called P 725 L'Adroit , since 2015 the lease has been renewed on the basis of annual agreements, but in 2018 the ship was withdrawn from the French Navy. and returned to the Naval Group, which actively sought a buyer abroad for this ship and eventually sold it to Argentina.
The construction of three new 87-meter patrol ships of the Gowind OPV 87 type for the Argentine Navy is being contracted by the Piriou shipbuilding company in Concarneau. The lead ship P 52 Piedrabuena was laid down there in 2019 and officially launched on October 1, 2020 (the first technical launch took place on July 4). Factory sea trials of the ship began on February 25, 2021, and now it has been handed over to an Argentine customer. It is reported that the second ship under construction there P 53 Almirante Storni should be delivered to Argentina by the end of 2021, and the third P 54 Bartolomé Cordero - in 2022.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4293160.html