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Su-30 for Russian Air Force

eridan

eridan: Posts : 188
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Post n°751

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

eridan Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:20 am

Hole wrote:The range of the missile depends on the speed and flight level of the aircraft. An R-27RE fired from an Su-30SM with a speed of M1,5 at an height of 12.000 m will fly longer than a R-27RE fired from an MiG-29 at lower Speed/height. If you can see further, you can bring yourself in a better position.

In aim-120 case, the difference between a mach 1.5 launch and mach 0.8 launch at 10 km altitude will be 15-ish percent, range wise. Same 0.8 mach launch at 5 km altitude will make it reach 28% less. Same 1.5 mach launch will make it reach 29% less.

franco

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Post n°752

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

franco Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:00 pm

George1 wrote:

franco wrote:First 4 Su-30SM delivered this year arrive at Kursk. Will start forming the 2nd squadron.

https://sdelanounas.rblogs/106560/

do we know where the MiG-29SMT fighters of Kursk regiment will go?

No, but should soon. Conversion will be complete by end of year.

Isos

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Post n°753

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Isos Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:13 pm

franco wrote:

George1 wrote:

franco wrote:First 4 Su-30SM delivered this year arrive at Kursk. Will start forming the 2nd squadron.

https://sdelanounas.rblogs/106560/

do we know where the MiG-29SMT fighters of Kursk regiment will go?

No, but should soon. Conversion will be complete by end of year.

Maybe in Syria for permanent location. Now the syrian base is part of russian air bases and the fighters there are meant to be returned to russia so they will need permanent fighters there.

Syria also has mig so they can improve logistic and maintenance of syrian mig too which would increase the power of syria so increase the protection of russian bases in syria.

George1

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Post n°754

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

George1 Tue May 01, 2018 1:31 am

And the bmpd article on these 4 Su-30SMs

Spotters report that on April 26-27, 2018 four new Su-30SM fighter planes built for the Russian Air Force at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant (IAP) of PJSC Irkut Corporation (part of United Aircraft Corporation) departed from Irkutsk. The planes, presumably, have red board numbers from "51" to "54" (the probable serial numbers are from 10MK5 1509 to 10MK5 1512) and entered the 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment of the 105th Mixed Aviation Division of the 6th Leningrad Red Banner Army Air Force and Air Defense West military district at the airfield Khalino (Kursk), marking the beginning of the rearmament of the second squadron of this regiment from the "Algerian" fighters MiG-29SMT.

These are the first Su-30SM fighters built by the IAP in the 2018 program. Earlier, Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Yuri Borisov said that the production program of the IAP provides delivery to the Ministry of Defense in 2018, 14 Su-30SM aircraft, including 12 for VKS, and two for the Russian Navy.

Recall that in total since 2012, for the Ministry of Defense of Russia, 116 Su-30SM aircraft were contracted, of which 88 are intended for the Russian Air Force (VCS), and another 28 for the Russian Navy Aviation. Taking into account the four new fighter planes received, in the framework of the signed contracts so far, in total, 84 Su-30SM fighters were obtained, and Marine Aviation - 20. Thus, in 2015-2017, another eight Su-30SM fighters were delivered to Kazakhstan. According to available information, in 2018 a new contract is expected to be signed within the framework of the adopted State Arms Program for 2018-2027 for the supply of additional Su-30SM fighters to the Russian military aerospace and navy.

The 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment in Khalino (Kursk) received 12 Su-30SM fighters built by the IAP in 2017 (the red side plates from "71" to "82"), which allowed rearming the MiG-29SMT with one squadron of the regiment. Now rearmament has begun on the Su-30SM and the second squadron.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3181293.html

Guest

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Post n°755

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Guest Wed May 02, 2018 12:09 am

SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs Suspect

Isos

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Post n°756

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Isos Wed May 02, 2018 1:17 am

Militarov wrote:SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs

The SM1 upgrade is supposed to make them 100% russian. But it's maybe cheaper to buy some parts abroad as they don't need to develop it specially if it is not a critical part like radar or IFF.

Hole

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Post n°757

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Hole Wed May 02, 2018 11:34 am

Isn´t there a Thales factory in Russia?

Guest

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Post n°758

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Guest Sat May 19, 2018 9:32 pm

Hole wrote:Isn´t there a Thales factory in Russia?

Not to my knowledge.

Even if there is... doesnt change a thing.

Guest

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Post n°759

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Guest Sat May 19, 2018 9:33 pm

Isos wrote:

Militarov wrote:SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs

The SM1 upgrade is supposed to make them 100% russian. But it's maybe cheaper to buy some parts abroad as they don't need to develop it specially if it is not a critical part like radar or IFF.

And HUD is not critical Very Happy

Isos

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Post n°760

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Isos Sat May 19, 2018 11:09 pm

Militarov wrote:

Isos wrote:

Militarov wrote:SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs

The SM1 upgrade is supposed to make them 100% russian. But it's maybe cheaper to buy some parts abroad as they don't need to develop it specially if it is not a critical part like radar or IFF.

And HUD is not critical ?

Well, it only shows informations to the pilots. It's far less critical than engines or radars. Once you have it inside the fighter you don't care about it anymore if it wirks it will work for the entire fighter's life.

Guest

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Post n°761

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Guest Sat May 19, 2018 11:23 pm

Isos wrote:

Well, it only shows informations to the pilots. It's far less critical than engines or radars. Once you have it inside the fighter you don't care about it anymore if it wirks it will work for the entire fighter's life.

HUDs require extensive maintenance actually, its quite complex device. Expensive too, to say at least.

GarryB

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Post n°762

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

GarryB Sun May 20, 2018 4:29 am

The range of the missile depends on the speed and flight level of the aircraft. An R-27RE fired from an Su-30SM with a speed of M1,5 at an height of 12.000 m will fly longer than a R-27RE fired from an MiG-29 at lower Speed/height. If you can see further, you can bring yourself in a better position.

Why did you say it that way?

A MiG-29 can fly just as fast and just as high as a Flanker... the latter has a larger radar, which means they... on their own... could detect targets at greater ranges, but it has no way of firing missiles to greater ranges than the MiG.

In fact during normal operations the MiG and the Flanker would be told to take off to intercept a detected threat together and could both pretty much accelerate and fly together for the intercept... the Flanker would probably pick up the target first on their radar but by the time it could launch a missile the Fulcrum would also have detected the target and also be able to fire with the same missile to the same distance...

In Russian operations both would be vectored to a lunch position and neither would use their radar to give away their position and both would launch at the same time.

The only real difference is that the Flanker can fly for longer periods of time to greater distances and carry more missiles...

HUDs require extensive maintenance actually, its quite complex device. Expensive too, to say at least.

New helmet mounted sights are going to make them less critical... plus Russian companies make HUDs too.

AMCXXL

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Post n°763

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

AMCXXL Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:47 am

https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12179422@egNews

06/06/2018 (01:25)
In June, the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy will include two multi-purpose Su-30SM aircraft

In June of this year, within the framework of the activities of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the main command of the Navy to re-equip the units and units of assault aviation, two multipurpose multi-purpose Su-30SM aircraft will be transferred to the naval aviation of the Navy. The ceremonial transfer will take place at the airport of the Irkutsk Aviation Plant.
It is planned that the aircraft will be part of the naval aviation of the Baltic Fleet. PJSC "Irkut Corporation" as the lead executor of the state defense order leads the serial production of highly maneuverable multi-purpose fighters Su-30SM. The aircraft was designed by Sukhoi Design Bureau and is produced at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant, a branch of PJSC Irkut Corporation.

eridan

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Post n°764

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

eridan Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:21 pm

Why a new contract for Su-30SM? If Su-57 is not ready, could they not at least order Su-35 instead? Or is it a matter of keeping Knaaz alive with military orders? Seriously, to be ordering newly built Su-30 airframes in 2020s seems ludicrous. It's still the same airframe as tested in late 1980s, with no advanced materials, rather heavy and not RCS reduced in any way. And the fact we're not seeing any new engine modernization for existing flankers is also peculiar. Hopefully that future contract will at least come with newer engines and newer radars.

Isos

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Post n°765

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Isos Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:47 pm

eridan wrote:Why a new contract for Su-30SM? If Su-57 is not ready, could they not at least order Su-35 instead? Or is it a matter of keeping Knaaz alive with military orders? Seriously, to be ordering newly built Su-30 airframes in 2020s seems ludicrous. It's still the same airframe as tested in late 1980s, with no advanced materials, rather heavy and not RCS reduced in any way. And the fact we're not seeing any new engine modernization for existing flankers is also peculiar. Hopefully that future contract will at least come with newer engines and newer radars.

They need new planes for navy aviation. Su-30 is cheaper than 35 and has two seats which is better for the navy. SM variant is more modern than the su-30 from 80s. Su-35 is expensice and is less capable than future su-57 which should enter service the next year.

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Post n°766

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Guest Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:23 pm

eridan wrote:Why a new contract for Su-30SM? If Su-57 is not ready, could they not at least order Su-35 instead? Or is it a matter of keeping Knaaz alive with military orders? Seriously, to be ordering newly built Su-30 airframes in 2020s seems ludicrous. It's still the same airframe as tested in late 1980s, with no advanced materials, rather heavy and not RCS reduced in any way. And the fact we're not seeing any new engine modernization for existing flankers is also peculiar. Hopefully that future contract will at least come with newer engines and newer radars.

New borts are needed asap, SU-35s are expencive, Su-57 is not ready... SU-30SM is the only viable solution at this moment beside Su-34s. It might be the old design but its fairly well equiped aircraft at this moment. And the airframe itself is revised, so it does include certain degree of composites.

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°767

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

GunshipDemocracy Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:18 am

eridan wrote:Why a new contract for Su-30SM? If Su-57 is not ready, could they not at least order Su-35 instead? Or is it a matter of keeping Knaaz alive with military orders? Seriously, to be ordering newly built Su-30 airframes in 2020s seems ludicrous. It's still the same airframe as tested in late 1980s, with no advanced materials, rather heavy and not RCS reduced in any way. And the fact we're not seeing any new engine modernization for existing flankers is also peculiar. Hopefully that future contract will at least come with newer engines and newer radars.

actually Eurofighter and Rafale are not much different right? F-15 silent eagle too

miketheterrible

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Post n°768

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

miketheterrible Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:29 am

In contrast, Su-35 isn't actually all that expensive. Rather, Russia can procure a lot of them. The Navy on the other hand enjoys the Su-30SM due to it being dual seater and carries a good arsenal of cruise missiles that will work fine for antiship use. Modern Su-30SM's radar has drastically improved with upwards detection ranges of 350km compared to the 400km of the Su-35 so for air engagement, it is quite suitable (especially since majority of the weapons do not even come to that close of engagement range anyway).

Hole

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Post n°769

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Hole Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:44 am

The whole family has a lot of upgrade potential. There´s already talk of an Su-30SM1 version with new radar and electronics. After 2020 the Su-30 will receive the radar of the Su-35 while the Su-35 will get a version of the Su-57 radar.

Isos

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Post n°770

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Isos Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:56 am

miketheterrible wrote:In contrast, Su-35 isn't actually all that expensive. Rather, Russia can procure a lot of them. The Navy on the other hand enjoys the Su-30SM due to it being dual seater and carries a good arsenal of cruise missiles that will work fine for antiship use. Modern Su-30SM's radar has drastically improved with upwards detection ranges of 350km compared to the 400km of the Su-35 so for air engagement, it is quite suitable (especially since majority of the weapons do not even come to that close of engagement range anyway).

Well r-37 have 300+ km range, uran has almost 300km range, oniks depend of the flight profil is also more than 300km in range. So the engagement range is not that far away from the radar's capacities for big valuable targets like AWACs and ships.

eridan

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Post n°771

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

eridan Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:49 pm

I was talking about the airframe structure design. One can always put in new avionics and such. Perhaps even new engines. (though that would have been done already, as engines are there, especially from Salyut which claims no modificatio to plane is needed. But apparently there is no money/willpower to act on that)

But structure of Su-35 was redesigned significantly from Su-27/Su-30. It uses lighter materials and has radar absorbant materials incorporated in it. It was strengthened compared to Su-27, just like Su-30 was, and more fuel tank areas were placed in it. In the end, without comparing avionics or the engine, it offers 3600 km range and 6000 hour lifespan. (theoretically Su-35 has the drop tank option for added range, but until that's actually tested lets leave it aside) Compared to Su-30SM's 3000 km range and same hour lifespan. Both are rated to carry the same 8 tons of weapons. But as it is, its power to weight ratio is lower. Even if somehow more powerful engines are ordered and incorporated, it would not fully neutralize greater fuel consumption so range would drop even more.

With current engines, Su30sm has low altitude speed mach 1.06, compared to 1.4 for su-35.
it has high altitude speed of mach 1.9, compared to 2.25
it has altitude ceiling of 17.3 km compared to 18

It's simply an airframe of older design. The two seater option is nice in certain roles, but most missions can be done by one crewmember today. Otherwise we'd not be seeing proliferation of single seater planes which don't even have a twin seater option. Sure, let navy have their two seaters (even though i'd say they don't need it either) but most sukhois could be singleseaters. Unless one is doing low level combat air support where one crewmember is looking for targets and other one is flying - there's really little reason to stick to two seater planes.

medo

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Post n°772

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

medo Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:48 am

Su-30SM prove excellent in Syria and both RuAF and RuNAVY are interested in more of them. True, RuAF also have Su-34 and Su-35, but Su-30SM is still one of the best fighters in the World, is still one of the best fighter-bombers in the World, it could as well work as combat trainer and it could play a role of flying command post of strike group. Su-30SM have the same new IFDL as Su-35, so it have excellent capabilities of networking. Su-30SM have two pilots, so it could fly longer time than Su-35 as pilots could change between themselves for flying and resting and in combat pilot in front is flying and care for air to air dogfight, while WSO behind is warking with armament for air to ground and air to sea attacks, working with datalinks and coordinating the operation of strike group and communicate with higher command. Pilot in Su-35 could not flying, fighting and coordinating work of a strike group at once. He is the one receiving commands from Su-30SM. C3I task need another man in the cockpit and this is WSO in Su-30SM.

Isos

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Post n°773

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Isos Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:43 pm

For complicated mission where you need to : use radar for ground mapping, air to air defence, antiship attack, put data into missiles, complicated navigation to avoid dangeroys space, avoid anti air system, use EW, coordinate a formation of many fighter/bombers.... you need a two seat fighter.

Su-35 and su-57 can do all this but the single pilot inside will necer be as effective as two guys. That's why they use them for air to air engagement and su-30/34 for other tasks.

That's also why mig-35 has both variants for export clients that wants to have a mix of them.

George1

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Post n°774

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

George1 Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:41 am

Two new Su-30SM have arrived to the Baltic Fleet

As reported by the spotter, on July 1, 2018, two new Su-30SM multifunctional fighters from Irkutsk with an intermediate landing in Shagol (Chelyabinsk) were flown for the aviation of the Baltic Fleet, based at the Chernyakhovsk airfield in the Kaliningrad region. On the same day on July 1, both fighter jets arrived in Chernyakhovsk. The planes built by the Irkutsk Irkut Corporation in accordance with the state defense order of 2018 have blue side numbers "76" (the proper name is "Chernyakhovsk") and "77" (Kaliningrad own name).

Su-30 for Russian Air Force - Page 31 5663866_original

Su-30 for Russian Air Force - Page 31 5663866_original

Earlier, the Ministry of Defense of Russia announced the arrival of two new Su-30SM in Chernyakhovsk on July 3.

Thus, the assault squadron of the 72nd aviation base of the Baltic Fleet aviation at the Chernyakhovsk airfield has now received eight Su-30SM aircraft operating jointly with the Su-24M and Su-24MR squadrons. It was reported about plans to deploy the assault squadron of the 72nd airbase back to the 4th Guards Marine Assault Aviation Regiment (which was turned into this squadron during the 2009 reform).

The first Su-30SM fighter (the onboard number "70 blue", serial number 10МК4 1406), entered the assault squadron at Chernyakhovsk airbase on December 13, 2016, five more Su-30SM aircraft were transferred there in 2017 - two Su-30SM ( blue onboard numbers "71" and "72", serial numbers 10МК5 1410 and 10МК5 1411) arrived in Chernyakhovsk at the end of May 2017, and three more (blue side numbers "73", "74" and "75", serial numbers 10ММ5 1418, 10МК5 1419 and 10МК5 1420) were received there in August 2017.

In total, since 2012, 116 Su-30SM aircraft have been contracted for the Ministry of Defense of Russia, of which 88 are intended for the Russian Air Force (VKS), and another 28 for the Russian Navy Aviation. To date, VKS Russia under the signed contracts received a total of 88 Su-30SM fighters (four of them in 2018), and Naval Aviation - 22 (seven of them in 2016, five in Chernyakhovsk in 2017, and two in Chernyakhovsk in 2018).

In addition to the eight Su-30SM fighters now in the assault squadron of the 72nd aviation base of the Baltic Fleet aviation, 12 other aircraft of this type (blue board numbers from "35" to "43", "45", "47" and "48" ) in 2014-2016 came in the 43rd separate sea assault aviation regiment of aviation of the Black Sea Fleet in Saki (Crimea), and two more with blue onboard numbers "22" and "23" (serial numbers 10МК5 1408 and 1409) came in 2016 in the 279th separate ship fighter aviation regiment of the 45th Army Air Force and Air Defense of the Northern Fleet at the airfield Severomorsk-3

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3257880.html

AMCXXL

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Post n°775

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

AMCXXL Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:07 pm

Nº 55 and 56 at Novosiborsk , probaly go to Kursk
Have new type of board numbers and also "BKC" in the tail

Previously Kursk received Nº51 to Nº54 and Chernyakovsk Nº 76 and 77, totalling 8 this year
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Last edited by AMCXXL on Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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