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I'm sorry...my mistake! I didn't mean the engines of Mig29/35, i mean the whole concept compared to Su-27 family or Su-57. The gap between F-15 family and F-16 family is much wider, than Mig-29 compared to Su-27.GarryB wrote:
I disagree... its power to weight ratio is less than the Su-57. If you go for too light an aircraft you end up with something that is useless for the job.
I would suggest to start from the available or next to be introduced engines that Russia would possiblyuse: there is a medium sized engine that sports the same tech level of Al-51?
Without this a two engined light fighter seems me a far fetch...
Next the form: canard deltas have an undeniable advantage if someone want to spare weight without compromising performances too much.
Another one to consider is avionics: wing root mounted radar is something one can put even in a light plane, so let's start with it,
Last it would be the opponents against what it would be addressed:for A2G role there will be the S-70 UCAV, so IF we look at the russian needs only I would address it toward an A2A role. Considering that future USAF fighter line would be made for the absolute most part of F-35 it wouldn't need outstanding performance to counter it.
The gap between F-15 family and F-16 family is much wider, than Mig-29 compared to Su-27.
I'm with you, that you can't use Yak-130, except for light strike roles.
GarryB wrote:
The RD-33 engines of the MiG-29 started at 8 tons thrust each and are now at about 9 tons thrust each, and comments on the MiG-29 thread suggest they are looking at 11 ton thrust engines pretty soon... which should be plenty for a fighter with a normal takeoff weight of 18-20 tons.
The soviets tested and rejected that layout decades ago... Ye-8 variant of the MiG-21 for instance...
Not really... the wing root mounted L band AESA radar for the Su-35 and Su-57 are for detection of stealth targets... it lacks the vertical depth for tracking targets... it is only one array element high...
They had Epulet (Shoulder board) radars for small fighters or fighters with nose air intakes, but only for air to air and only for short range...
Well indeed... of course the S-70s might be sent forward to take down AWACS and JSTARS and any inflight refuelling tankers that might be near the line of engagement, while the radar silent Su-57s monitor any aircraft responding to them and attack them in turn.
In a certain sense the original F-15 was even more extreme of the same F-16 as it sported very powerful engines but a light frame.
I am not so sure. The F-16 is very comparable to the MiG-29 in terms of weight and performance and is rather more expensive too.
Well,if they can get them fast enough, it has definitely a go on from me.
Still I will vouch for a full 5gen engine like Al-51 over any increased thrust derivative of an already existing engine.
Mind to enlighten us more about such an evaluation?
Decades ago, even in W. Europe itself, they were considered a sort of extreme configuration, good for certain roles but in overall quite risky but now all the fighters produced here are canard deltas because in the meantime solutions were found to overcome the initial design limitations.
Also there, it certainly would but a smaller yet faster UCAV i.e. a pilotless version of what i was talking above would be even better for the role.
With USAF bound to buy a score of F-35 flying bricks in the next 15-20 years they have a great window of opportunity for a light A2A UCAV in my humble opinion.
In a certain sense the original F-15 was even more extreme of the same F-16 as it sported very powerful engines but a light frame.
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GarryB wrote:Interesting... but I would think the canard is a bit redundant if it has TVC engines... especially when it seems to have horizontal tail surfaces too... and I am wondering if it will have vertical fins at all...
I am also surprised they have never gone with air intakes above the wing to prevent FOD on take offs and landings from rough airstrips...
Interesting... but I would think the canard is a bit redundant if it has TVC engines... especially when it seems to have horizontal tail surfaces too... and I am wondering if it will have vertical fins at all...
I am also surprised they have never gone with air intakes above the wing to prevent FOD on take offs and landings from rough airstrips...
Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS magnumcromagnon Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:16 am
Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS miketheterrible Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:20 am
Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS magnumcromagnon Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:27 am
miketheterrible wrote:I dont think this will ever see the light of day.
They been working on this longer than Su-57 and still nothing. In the end, it wont be inducted and I think Su-57 will remain the main contender for a fighter for Russia. Its price isn't even that high and its performance is a bit better than that of a Su-35. Russia isn't really pushing for a high number of air force pilots but more professional and better equipped. If this plane ever does come out, it will have to be cheaper than not only competitors on the market but also of their own other designs. Which I doubt will be the case. Su-30SM and Su-35 are not actually expensive and if they have overall better performance than this jet, then this jet is already DoA. These kind of jets are only much useful for smaller countries who need VLO design and be able to have powerful enough subcomponents to do the tasks at hand. Otherwise, no. I dont think so.
Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS miketheterrible Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:40 am
magnumcromagnon wrote:miketheterrible wrote:I dont think this will ever see the light of day.
They been working on this longer than Su-57 and still nothing. In the end, it wont be inducted and I think Su-57 will remain the main contender for a fighter for Russia. Its price isn't even that high and its performance is a bit better than that of a Su-35. Russia isn't really pushing for a high number of air force pilots but more professional and better equipped. If this plane ever does come out, it will have to be cheaper than not only competitors on the market but also of their own other designs. Which I doubt will be the case. Su-30SM and Su-35 are not actually expensive and if they have overall better performance than this jet, then this jet is already DoA. These kind of jets are only much useful for smaller countries who need VLO design and be able to have powerful enough subcomponents to do the tasks at hand. Otherwise, no. I dont think so.
A light 5th gen fighter on the internationally arms market would sell much better than a heavy one, and a super light 5th gen trainer (a Yak-131 replacement) would sell even better, in which even countries like Cambodia and Myanmar could potentially afford a 5th gen aircraft. Lighter fighters would be much cheaper to purchase and to operate/maintain.
Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS magnumcromagnon Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:03 am
miketheterrible wrote:magnumcromagnon wrote:miketheterrible wrote:I dont think this will ever see the light of day.
They been working on this longer than Su-57 and still nothing. In the end, it wont be inducted and I think Su-57 will remain the main contender for a fighter for Russia. Its price isn't even that high and its performance is a bit better than that of a Su-35. Russia isn't really pushing for a high number of air force pilots but more professional and better equipped. If this plane ever does come out, it will have to be cheaper than not only competitors on the market but also of their own other designs. Which I doubt will be the case. Su-30SM and Su-35 are not actually expensive and if they have overall better performance than this jet, then this jet is already DoA. These kind of jets are only much useful for smaller countries who need VLO design and be able to have powerful enough subcomponents to do the tasks at hand. Otherwise, no. I dont think so.
A light 5th gen fighter on the internationally arms market would sell much better than a heavy one, and a super light 5th gen trainer (a Yak-131 replacement) would sell even better, in which even countries like Cambodia and Myanmar could potentially afford a 5th gen aircraft. Lighter fighters would be much cheaper to purchase and to operate/maintain.
Yes, maybe on international market. But Russian market not so much. Russian market fighter jets like MiG-35 is actually about as much if not more expensive than Su-35 while Su-35 has overall better performance. Hence why MiG-35 isn't selling. No one is really interested in it. They are interested in older MiG-29's due to their affordability and specs that more or less fall under that category. Su-30 on the other hand is in high demand as we see, yet is larger and theoretically more expensive. But it really isn't.
magnumcromagnon wrote:I'm surprised that 5th gen fighter aircraft don't all have intakes placed above the wing
Also If I had it my way 5th gen weapon bay doors would be replaced with modular revolving bomb bay doors, which should reduce RCS, drag and complexity.
Also it would be nice if the internal bomb bays had direct fuel channel/veins that led to the engine, in which internal bomb bay fuel tanks could be developed to increase flight duration (when range is the top priority) without increasing drag.
miketheterrible wrote:I dont think this will ever see the light of day.
They been working on this longer than Su-57 and still nothing. In the end, it wont be inducted and I think Su-57 will remain the main contender for a fighter for Russia. Its price isn't even that high and its performance is a bit better than that of a Su-35. Russia isn't really pushing for a high number of air force pilots but more professional and better equipped. If this plane ever does come out, it will have to be cheaper than not only competitors on the market but also of their own other designs. Which I doubt will be the case. Su-30SM and Su-35 are not actually expensive and if they have overall better performance than this jet, then this jet is already DoA. These kind of jets are only much useful for smaller countries who need VLO design and be able to have powerful enough subcomponents to do the tasks at hand. Otherwise, no. I dont think so.
The MiG-29 had them and they were removed in the new versions. In exchange it has more fuel, which is also very important.
I'm surprised that 5th gen fighter aircraft don't all have intakes placed above the wing because it'll reduce RCS, reduce drag and increase weapon bay space by 100%. Just take the space taken up by the intakes, it'll effectively double the available space for AAM's, PGM's, etc.
Also If I had it my way 5th gen weapon bay doors would be replaced with modular revolving bomb bay doors, which should reduce RCS, drag and complexity
They been working on this longer than Su-57 and still nothing.
Yeah, I doubt they will ever produce these also.
LMFS wrote:Is that drawing new? I had seen this version:
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Cyberspec wrote:Said to be roughly the same size as a MiG-29, maybe a bit smaller.
Can't really tell if it's single engined or not?
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the fighter will be close in size to the MiG-35, its length will be 15.5 m, wingspan-11.5 m, maximum take-off weight-24.5 t. It is designed to reach speeds of 2M at high altitude and up to 1500 km / h at low altitude, with a range of 4000 km with suspended tanks.
The combat load of 1500 kg will all be in one armament compartment, similar to the su-57, which has two of them.
The fighter will be equipped with two 11-ton thrust engines, which will be a further development of the RD-33MK-35 model for the MiG-35. Previously, their name appeared as VK-10M.
For avionics and weapons, continuity with the MiG-35 will be maintained, in particular, the LMFS will be equipped with a radar with AFAR "Zhuk-AME".
Judging by its aerodynamic scheme, it is more of a maneuverable fighter, which did not focus on the range and high speed.
According to Butovsky, the probability of ordering the LMFS of the VKS of Russia is low, since it was not in the GPV-2020, and most likely not in the GPV-2027. However, the VKS can purchase a small number of these machines for demonstration purposes in order to support exports. But even in this case, the funds of a foreign co-investor will most likely be sought
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