BMPT "Terminator"

There're some big issues with mortars

The third "Terminator" is created as a variant of modernization of tanks T-72 and T-90

Earlier, some media reported that the new Russian tank support combat vehicle "Terminator 3" based on heavy tracked platform "Armata" will be created

MOSCOW, June 2nd. / TASS /. New Combat Vehicle Fire Support (BMOP), "Terminator 3" is created primarily as a variant of modernization of tanks T-72 and T-90, a modification to the "Armata" platform is considered on its own initiative. This was announced by Deputy Director General of TASS "Uralvagonzavod" by Vyacheslav Halitov special equipment.

Earlier, some media reported that the new tank support combat vehicle "Terminator 3" based on heavy tracked platform "Armata" will be created in Russia.

"Terminator 3" involves not only the platform "Armata". This platform primarily tank T-72 and T-90. Because the idea was to put combat units on tank chassis, which are a large number of our foreign customers. "Terminator 3" is more suitable to adapt it to the tank T-72 or T-90, which are available for some of our foreign customers ", - said Halitov.

According to him, the possibility of installing a new machine different combat units, including guns caliber 30 or 57 millimeters.

They will use BMOP against the medium and heavy targets and against the light engineering, as well as low-flying helicopters and drones, said the deputy head of "Uralvagonzavod".

Speaking about the decision to create a fighting vehicle fire support platform "Armata" Halitov explained that all depends on the willingness of the customer. "We will do everything we tell We own initiative on the platform." Armata "worked out very large type series We have been working on a series of types on the platform." Armata ", in which, inter alia, is BMOP" - he said the agency.

He also noted that "Uralvagonzavod" has refused the definition of "tank support combat vehicle" for the representatives of the series "Terminator". According Khalitova, this definition was incorrect, and "so the machine did not find the proper application and did not cause so much interest." "After all, why we would need a tank, if with it still need to buy some kind of support for the car?" - Said the deputy head of "Uralvagonzavod".


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Werewolf

How did you infer that the T-15 has weaker frontal armour than the T-14 Armata? I'm quite certain that the T-15 will eventually have comparable armour if it doesn't already have that level of protection.

What's the diference bewtween t-15 and kurg-25 ? They have the same plateform, same turrets, and same interior space. Why not only make T-15 which have just a beter armor ( at least on the front, on the other sides they are the same).

Isos wrote:What's the diference bewtween t-15 and kurg-25 ? They have the same plateform, same turrets, and same interior space. Why not only make T-15 which have just a beter armor ( at least on the front, on the other sides they are the same).

Russia requires the Kurganets-25 because it can traverse rivers and lakes without the need of a bridge. The T-15 is far too heavy for this purpose.

GarryB wrote:

But why to replace? to deal with you have 57mm gun. Max mass of HE in 120mm rouns is about 5kg in Kornet is 10kg so what has bigger punch?

120mm rounds are closer to 16kgs and Kornet wont fit down the barrel of a gun.

not really, Kitolov-2 carries rougle half he carried by Kornet.


source: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%D0%A131

120mm Vena guided rounds characteristics
Index shot Round HE Max range, km
kg kg
guided:
riffled
" Kitolov-2 " 28 5.5 12.0

smoothbore
" Fringe " 27 5.1 9.0
" Beta " 16 5.0 7.0


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet
9M133 Kornet-EM

HEAT 7 kg 8.0
Thermobaric 10 kg 10.0

GarryB wrote:

As for armata variant - the one presented as green little mockup had secondary armament 30mm gun and 4 barrel Gatling ... the only one in Russia so far was Yakushev-Borzov YakB-12.7mm. Interesting if this concept will be followed up.

there is a reason the Hind has dropped the 12.7mm gatling for a twin barrel 23mm cannon.. and a 12.7mm and a 30mm 2A42 on the same vehicle is a little redundant with a 120mm.

this reason might be for example no 57mm gun on top of 12,7mm gun?

GarryB wrote:
A grenade launcher like the 57mm or 40mm plus a cannon like a 23mm weapon make rather more sense and compliment the 120mm better.

I would say both concepts have similar abilities to fight infantry/bunkers/ifv ...except effective AA.

57mm gun can have guided projectiles with roughy 76mm weight and be immediately ready to shoot any chopper/drone in pretty nice radius

Why would a BMP-T require a round more powerful than a 120mm mortar round when it only has to defend armour and ground troops from enemy infantrymen in urban engagements? I can understand notching up the firepower to 160mm, but 240mm? How many 160mm rounds could the T-14 Armata hold inside the hull if they did decide to integrate the 160mm mortar on to its chassis?

57mm is back didnt I tell ya lads?

ASTANA, 2 Jun – RIA Novosti. The first prototype of a promising self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery complex "Derivation-defense" will be ready by 2017, told reporters on Thursday the General Director of the Central research Institute "Petrel" (part of "Uralvagonzavod") George Zakamennykh.
"We are conducting developmental work "Derivation-defense" on the creation of anti-aircraft artillery system caliber 57 mm in the interest of military defense. The readiness of a prototype expected next year, the work is performed under the state defense order", — he said during the exhibition of armament KADEX-2016.


РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160602/1441890314.html#ixzz4AS7sN7ic

+

"Terminator 3" involves not only the platform "Armata". This platform primarily tank T-72 and T-90. Because the idea was to put combat units on tank chassis, which are a large number of our foreign customers. "Terminator 3" is more suitable to adapt it to the tank T-72 or T-90, which are available for some of our foreign customers ", - said Halitov.

According to him, the possibility of installing a new machine different combat units, including guns caliber 30 or 57 millimeters.

They will use BMOP against the medium and heavy targets and against the light engineering, as well as low-flying helicopters and drones, said the deputy head of "Uralvagonzavod".

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3332924

Meet Russia’s Tank 2.0, Machine Able to Defend Itself Against Anti-Tank Missiles



Russia could be reviewing the possibility of ditching the traditional tank in favor of a machine “that is much more capable of defending itself against missile-equipped infantry and engaging other vehicles at stand-off ranges with anti-tank missiles,” according to Russian expert on defense policy Ruslan Pukhov.

"We discovered that no matter how skillful the crew, the tank would get up to ten hits,” Pukhov, the Director of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) told the Washington-based Center for the National Interest, US foreign policy think tank, on Tuesday.

“Even if you have perfect armor — active, passive. In one case it will save you from one hit, in another case from two hits, but you’ll still get five hits and you’re done. That’s why now you’re supposed to have some kind of Tank 2.0,” said the Russian expert.

Russia’s Tank 2.0 is not the state-of-the-art T-14 Armata, as some might think, but, as Pukhov put it, "what Russians call among themselves — Boyevaya Mashina Podderzhki Tankov [Tank Support Fighting Machine].”

In fact it’s not a tank support machine but an entirely new type of tank in its own right, a machine which can protect itself.

“So there is a serious debate about it,” the expert explained.

Pukhov further explained to the defense editor of The National Interest magazine, published by the think tank, that in previous eras tanks were more or less protected against weapons like rocket propelled grenades and anti-tank missiles, the latest generation of those weapons however can punch through even the toughest armor.

“That’s why we have the concept of the Tank 2.0,” the magazine quotes the Russian expert as saying.

“We have a prototype of this machine that’s called the fighting vehicle to support tank attack — Terminator.”

Appropriately nicknamed “the Terminator,” these fearsome vehicles sport a turret with two 30-millimeter 2A42 automatic cannons and four Ataka missile launchers. Further, the BMPT has a 7.62-millimeter machine gun next to the main guns and two AG-17D automatic grenade launchers in the hull.

There have been two versions of the Terminator concept that have been developed thus far on the chassis of the T-72 main battle tank.

However earlier in April, Oleg Sienko, a senior manager with the manufacturer, Uralvagonzavod Corporation, told RIA Novosti that Russia also plans to develop its tank support fighting vehicle dubbed the Terminator-3 based on the country’s latest Armata tanks.

The vehicle was designed based on combat experience gained during the Soviet war in Afghanistan and the First Chechen War.

The Russian military then realized that its earlier-model BMP fighting vehicles suffered from thin armor and too few weapons.

During those wars, Russia’s foes hid in mountains or in the upper floors of buildings. As the armored vehicles passed, rebels would shoot down and blow them up  – and the vehicles couldn’t aim high enough to shoot back.

In 2005, the Russian military began testing out a small number of Terminators. They could shoot at high angles. Plus, the vehicles had heavier armored derived from the T-72 tank.

As of late 2013, the only operator of the BMPT was Kazakhstan.

Reports suggested that Russia appears to have foregone procurement of the BMPT in favor of the T-15 IFV based on the Armata Universal Combat Platform to fill the role.

If and when the Terminator is ultimately fielded, the vehicle would be able to engage large groups of massed infantry in built-up areas with a combination of missiles and automatic cannon fire.

“We need it badly. Believe it or not, we’re not going to project force, we need to protect our territory,” Pukhov stated.

http://sputniknews.com/military/20160730/1043784253/russia-new-tank.html

Analysis: Fire support vehicles BMP-T and BMPT-72 of Russian defense industry.

Russian defense industry has developed and manufactured fire support vehicle BMPT and BMPT-72 based on the chassis of T-72 main battle tanks to increase fire power and combat capabilities of dismounted troops. This type of vehicle is armed with automatic cannon and anti-tank guided missiles able to destroy a wide range of modern military threats on the battlefield.


The Russian defense industry under the umbrella of Rosoboronexport, Russia's state-run arms exporter company promotes fire support vehicles, BMP- T Terminator 1 and BMPT-72 Terminator 2 for the international military market.

The BMPT-72 vehicle was developed to support tank and motorized riflemen units. It is based on the chassis of the T-72 main battle tank (MBT) and features protection that is similar to the one of MBTs. BMPT-72 has an armament suite that provides detecting and eliminating of small-sized camouflaged targets. Modern target search-and-detection systems, an automatized fire control system, a powerful multichannel automatic weapons suite, and all-aspect protection of the crew allows BMPT-72 to accomplish fire support missions in all types of combat environment and in complex geographical areas, by day and night, against any enemy.

BMPT-72 is produced using phased-out-of-service T-72 MBTs. Obsolete T-72 tanks that are not supposed to be upgraded due to the economic ineffectiveness of such a modernization can be rebuilt into BMPT-72 vehicles. The rebuilding process comprises the replacement of tank turret by the BMPT combat module with remote controlled weapons (automatic cannons, a machinegun, and guided missiles) located in a separate structure, as well as the repairing and upgrade (at customer`s request) of the chassis. The works to rebuild T-72s into BMPT-72s can be performed at customer`s production facilities.

The main armament of the BMPT-72 consists of two 30 mm 2A42 automatic cannons that fire high-explosive and armour-piercing rounds. The guided weapon system incorporates two launchers with four ready-to-launch guided missiles armed with high-explosive anti-tank or thermobaric warheads. The vehicle can fire the missiles on the move by day and night. It also carries a coaxial 7.62 mm machinegun.

The uses of tank chassis provides BMPT-72 an high level of the vehicle`s protection and allows it to accomplish missions in tank formations under enemy`s fire. The protection suite of BMPT-72 incorporates basic armour, integrated explosive reactive armour, an automated smoke screening system, additional bar-slat armour, a camouflage painting, and a low visual signature


The BMP-T Terminator 1 fire support vehicle is designed to provide fire support to tank and motorized riflemen units and to detect and eliminate low-observable and scattered targets (primarily, enemy`s manpower equipped with small arms and anti-tank weapons) on the battlefield. It features an armament suite that allows destructing of heavy-protected platforms (tanks and tank-based vehicles), fortifications, and aerial targets. However, the detection of low-observable targets and their well-timed elimination are the primary tasks set before the BMPT fire support vehicle.

The BMP-T Terminator 1 can be used in tank formations or separately. A tank unit equipped with BMPTs features advanced efficiency, as enemy`s well-protected vehicles and fortifications are destroyed by MBTs, while manpower, anti-tank-systems, and soft-skin vehicles by BMPTs. The separate usage of fire support vehicles envisages dismounted troops combat efficiency boosting, conveys securing and escorting, and eliminating of terrorists.

The armament of the BMP-T Terminator 1 includes two 30 mm 2A42 dual-axis stabilized automatic cannons with an ammunition load of 850 rounds, a 7.62 mm PKT machinegun with an ammunition load of 2,000 rounds, four anti-tank laser-guided missiles, and two 30 mm automatic grenade launchers with an ammunition load of 600 grenades.

The BMP-T Terminator 1features advanced protection suite that shield the crew from anti-tank munitions. BMPT has tank-level basic armour. Its front part is not weakened by a firing port intended for tank gun. The sides of the vehicle are additionally protected by explosive reactive armour. The BMPT`s protection suite actually exceeds the tank`s one. The rear part of the vehicle features bar-slat armour.

Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/analysis_fire_support_vehicles_bmp-t_and_bmpt-72_of_russian_defense_industry_tass_10302173.html

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I'm curious about how the Army will incorporate the BMPTs into its tank units. Maybe they will assign a BMPT company to each tank battalion of an armored brigade/division, or they do it on a much more organic manner. A few months ago I have posted an interesting article in the Armata thread (also from Army Recognition), and I'm sure that with the introduction of the "Terminator 3" based on the Armata platform it will be incorporated into the Armata brigades/divisions in an organic way.

The link to the article I mentioned: http://www.armyrecognition.com/armies_in_the_world_analysis_focus/tactics_of_russian_motor_rifle_brigades_will_change_with_introduction_of_armata_tracked_platform_tass_12407161.html

Speaking about the Terminator 3, it could also receive some kind of APS (most likely "Afghanit"), and "Shtora" passive electronic defense system, plus the "Nakidka" radar absorbent camouflage paint, or a more modern alternative of these two systems. Plus its automated turret with dual 57mm autocannons could also be mounted onto a T-90/T-90MS chassis, which would make a great export potential for it.

kopyo-21 wrote:

It looked like what Ukraine do with ZTM-1 (Ukrainian 2A72 gun) on BTR-3E.

Is that a vehicle sold to Thailand ? The sight is a SAFRAN Electronic Défense MPS

Cplnew83 wrote:

kopyo-21 wrote:

It looked like what Ukraine do with ZTM-1 (Ukrainian 2A72 gun) on BTR-3E.

Is that a vehicle sold to Thailand ? The sight is a SAFRAN Electronic Défense MPS

Yes it is and yes it is the demonstrator that the RTA picked up.

Why not use bmpt in syria to demonstrate combat effectiveness as they did for t 90? It would be good for sales/advertising and be able to see how effective the tank designed for urban combat really is

MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:Why not use bmpt in syria to demonstrate combat effectiveness as they did for t 90? It would be good for sales/advertising and be able to see how effective the tank designed for urban combat really is

Well there are a few problems here :

Firstly, UralVagonZavod would have to produce additional BMPT's from its own pocket, which would also need to be slightly adjusted for the conditions in the field there, which means additional research and development costs.
This could be considered a risky investment, as this may very well backfire if an incompetent crew drives the vehicle into an ambush on camera.

Secondly, as has been common practice in Syria, ground vehicles will be operated by indigenous personnel, rather than Russian crews.
Who is going to train these Syrian/Iranian crews? The vehicle is only in limited service in Kazakhstan. No Russian military personnel is trained for operating this vehicle as far as i know.

I am sure UVZ personnel would rather show off the vehicle capabilities in controlled environment at expo's. Will be hard to find a volunteer for such a PR mission.

The T-90 so far has made a good showing. But these where T-90's from storage that where already built. It is a different story from non-existent BMPT's and crews.

New Gas-Turbine Engine Trial Fall 2017: Arctic IFV Rytsar
Here: http://mil.today/2017/Arctic1/

Development of advanced infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) Rytsar equipped with gas-turbine engine and electric transmission is under way; trials of the combat vehicle are scheduled in the falls, an insider in the Concern Tractor Plants told Mil.Today.

According to the interviewee, the Rytsar IFV is being created by JSC Special Machine Building Design Bureau, virtually, on its own initiative. Currently, the project is at the "payment stage", the vehicle components are being designed. Moreover, creation of the new IFV coincides with the concern’s reorganization process, the spokesman added

The Russian Defense Ministry plans to deploy the perspective vehicle in the Arctic where the gas turbine powerplant will operate better than the diesel one. The military wants the Rytsar IFVs to be supplied to Arctic-based motorized infantry brigades. The new combat vehicle must be powered with 400-hp engine, and its weight will exceed 20 tons, which is heavier than BMP-3.

The engine for Rytsar IFV has been already designed and is being tested now, but so far this powerplant develops only 380 hp, a source in the Kaluga-based experimental design bureau of motor building told Mil.Today. To increase power, the new turbine needs another supercharger and additional funding. The work on the new generator continues as well. According to the interviewee, the engine will pass from the test-bed trials to the field ones by the coming fall

Next gen Arctic BMP?  

20+ ton IFV  
GTD 400 HP  

The Russian Ministry of Defense will purchase a batch of BMPT

As reported in his blog, Alexei Khlopotov (Gur Khan), Nizhny Tagil Uralvagonzavod is preparing to deploy a serial production of combat vehicles for the BMPT fire support, also known as the "Terminator." At present, about a dozen servicemen have arrived at the enterprise to learn how to operate these new machines. Within two weeks the sergeants passed a theoretical course on the design of the BMPT, and now they are studying the material part of the machine directly in the design bureau.

It is expected that purchases will begin in 2018. Currently, the number of purchased machines is not yet known, but, apparently, will amount to no less than 10 pieces.



The BMPT package will match the one in which these machines have already been supplied to Kazakhstan.
Crew BMPT - 5 people. Weapons: 4 Ataka-T missiles (Sturm-SM), 2 automatic 30 mm 2A42 cannons, 7.62mm PKT machine gun and 2 automatic 30mm AG-17D grenade launchers on the super-ground regiments.

The choice of this option is due to the fact that in this form the BMPT passed state tests and all necessary design documentation with the appropriate letter was properly drawn up for it, unlike the more modern and cheaper BMPT-72 "Terminator-2", which is not yet ready for serial production Production. At the same time, the BMPT can be upgraded by installing a commander's panorama with a thermal imaging channel.

The development of the BMPT was started in 1998-99 as a result of the generalization of the experience of fighting in Chechnya. In 2006, the BMPT completed state tests and was recommended for series production, which was to begin in 2010. For the tests, two copies of the BMPT were built, one of which was tested by real shelling, explosions on mines and landmines, proving high survivability. In anticipation of state orders, the first three serial corps were laid at Uralvagonzavod, however, according to Minister A.Serdyukov's decision, the program was closed. One of the motivations for this decision was the apparent obsolescence of the base machine - the T-90A tank, proclaimed by the first deputy defense minister V. Popovkin. Three pawned cars in 2010-2012 were completed for the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan, where during the exercises they showed high efficiency.

Currently, the only existing prototype of the BMPT is dismantled for major repairs during which it will be brought to the appearance of the production car. At the same time it is planned that servicemen who arrived at the UVZ will participate in its assembly in order to better study the design. Upon returning to their unit, they will have to reproduce the experience gained.

The decision to adopt the BMPT into the armament of the Russian Army is conditioned by the analysis of the "Syrian" experience. The fighting in Syria has shown an urgent need for a specialized machine, "sharpened" for counter-terrorist operations. Unfortunately, the short-sighted decisions of the Ministry of Defense officials delayed the start of equipping the Russian Army with a BMPT for at least 8 years!

Probably, the first serial copies of the BMPT will go into service with the Taman Division and if not in 2018, then in 2019 they will pass a parade in Red Square, and then they will appear on the base of Khmeimim.

Gur Khan: BMPT "Terminator" (circa. 1999), developed during the Raman-99 R & D, was once severely criticized. Some experts considered the equipping of the BMPT with course grenade launchers, each of which was ruled by an irrational decision, which greatly complicated and increased the cost of the car. The installation and equipping of the BMPT with obsolete and inaccurate 30mm 2A42 guns was also criticized. However, we still do not have anything better. BMPT-72, certainly better than BMPT in the sense that it removed the "extra" AG and, respectively, two "extra" crew members. However, this machine was created in an initiative order and the Ministry of Defense was not tested, therefore, for the RF Ministry of Defense it does not exist, as it were. Nevertheless, in November of last year, in 2016, your humble servant literally belittled one of the deputies of the general director of NPK Uralvagonzavod to "punch" the shipment to Syria of BMPT or BMPT-72 at least with factory crews and "light" their participation in the Syrian war Videos on YouTube. This "advertising" move could radically stimulate the purchase of new-class combat vehicles, both the Russian Army and foreign customers. And now, at last, it seems, it has come to pass!

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2678157.html

George1 wrote:The Russian Ministry of Defense will purchase a batch of BMPT

As reported in his blog, Alexei Khlopotov (Gur Khan), Nizhny Tagil Uralvagonzavod is preparing to deploy a serial production of combat vehicles for the BMPT fire support, also known as the "Terminator." At present, about a dozen servicemen have arrived at the enterprise to learn how to operate these new machines. Within two weeks the sergeants passed a theoretical course on the design of the BMPT, and now they are studying the material part of the machine directly in the design bureau.

I hope that we will see in 2018 a variant fitted with the new grenade launcher, once this has passed state tests. Hopefully it will be remotely operated and combined with the commanders panoramic sight, which should come as part of the default configuration. I am not a big fan of the front mounted AGS-17 grenade launchers, and the position of the crew members needed to operate them. I feel like omitting them all together would be the best choice, and i don't think it would be in conflict with the earlier state test results. As for the integration of the newest grenade launcher coupled with a panoramic sight, this would off course be a new hurdle to overcome.

This is rather interesting move to be honest. it looks like we will see the BMPT in combat in the years to come. I do hope that, should they be deployed to Syria, that Russian personnel will be used to train local crews rather than operate the vehicles themselves.

For those who missed it in the Middle Eastern Military section : BMPT @ Hmeimim Air Base, Syria



Judging from the camouflage scheme (which is hardly visible tbh) it could be the very same demonstrator vehicle seen at RAE 2015. Note the Ataka launchers have been replaced with the slightlty better protected version found on the BMPT-72.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2691139.html