Indian Su-30MKI: News

George1 wrote:Russian-made Su-30MKI fighter jets to carry five BrahMos missiles

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1045506

Brahmos NG which is the small one. That will be a bug power up for them.

Military expert explained how the Su-30 outsmarted the F-16 in the sky over Kashmir
https://riafan.ru/1158033-voennyi-ekspert-obyasnil-kak-su-30-perekhitrili-f-16-v-nebe-nad-kashmirom

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
1h
According to Indian Air Force sources, the IAF is looking at replacing its Su-30MKI's Russian-made R-73 and R-77 air-to-air missiles. The R-77 "do not match its advertised range and cannot engage targets which are more than 80 kilometres away."


Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
1h
This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/outgunned-by-pakistan-f-16s-iaf-plans-to-re-arm-its-sukhois-with-israeli-missiles-2044172

This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

Both missed but it is the Russian missile that is faulty?

GarryB wrote:

This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

Both missed but it is the Russian missile that is faulty?

They are claiming it can't engage beyond 80km. Which the pakies are laughing at saying Russia should sell them the R-77 and they can probably use it at Max range. And I don't doubt that the early R-77 that India has does have it's issues. Hell, Russia never introduced it into it's own airforce instead waited for R-77-1 and now K-77M for Su-57. For most of it's modern Life, they relied upon heavily modernized R-27 missiles instead.

Well it is another proof that indians are sneaky bastards. R-77 has a range of 80km and it is clearly stated by the manufacturer. RVV-SD is the export version with 110km and available for export since many years.

If they wanted to compete with AMRAAM, they should have bought the SD variant.

The reality is that they stroke themselve with the glory indian air force from the 70s and think that they must be the best in any situation because they won air battles in the 70s. The thing is that it's no more the same fighters nor the same pilots, so instead of blaming everyone they should start blaming themselves and admit they just suck.

If they really wanted to fight they could have locked on the f-16 simulating a launch of r-27ER which would have obliged the f-16 to go defencisve (= turn, lose speed and altitude, amraam range decrease), get closer and use r-77. Moreover they were in a formation of 2 su30 some mirage 2000 and mig-21 bison, in this case leader should have coordinated an attack (and jaming) to destroy the intruders but they are not trained at all to face such situation, clearly.

IMO indians wants to destroy russian credibility because they plan to be a new arm exporter and will target russian clients. Just like China is doing. Russia needs to destroy some chinese made and indian made weapons to stop that. Abrams destruction by kornet is a good exemple how they stoped the stories about how russian tanks are blowing up so easily and not western ones. Now destroy a stupid f-16, damage a submarine coming too close to a russian ship and use s-300 in Syria.


It is stated they detected the launch of amraam which is a active radar missile launched with the track while scan mode. So there couldn't be an alarm in the RWR of the su-30 before the two amraam activated their onboard radars 20km away. IMO the su-30 radar can detect the amraam from far away and able the pilot to take evasive manoeuvres.

A Israeli F-16 (much better than most F-16's) was shot down not too long ago by a S-200 AD system. Rumor was two of them shot down.

It's quite simple - in India, there are those who are being paid to promote Israeli or US systems

Indians aren't doing that cause they plan on "supplanting the Russians".. they simply can't. If there is an ulterior motive it's to make way for American arms. Pompeo will be selling some soon as he arrives in India. The slow displacement of Russian arms in the Indian market continues slowly but surely with no end in sight. And as always the soil must be fertile, before the crops are planted.

https://theprint.in/defence/wiser-after-balakot-india-orders-missiles-worth-700-million-from-russia/249553/

Well now they order 300 r-73 and 400 r-77 and some kh31 for 700 million $. To be verified as the article is from today.

Russia offered rvv-sd but it seems MKI aren't capable of carrying it. Maybe would need an upgrade. If they are smart they would ask for r-77M.

miketheterrible wrote:

GarryB wrote:

This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

Both missed but it is the Russian missile that is faulty?

They are claiming it can't engage beyond 80km. Which the pakies are laughing at saying Russia should sell them the R-77 and they can probably use it at Max range.  And I don't doubt that the early R-77 that India has does have it's issues. Hell, Russia never introduced it into it's own airforce instead waited for R-77-1 and now K-77M for Su-57. For most of it's modern Life, they relied upon heavily modernized R-27 missiles instead.

Are your sure it's the R-77? It was never designed to be launched with Israeli and French software. I mean Israeli software in their SAMs struggled with basic IFF, and managed to shoot down a friendly Mi-8.

None of the newer systems are designed to work with Israeli or what not systems. I believe the newest of the new only recently received the ability to work on other nations software since it uses a modern open architecture.

As mentioned above too, the newer variant never worked on the Su-30MKI and thus R-77 basic was sold to India.

And all sources for the first variant of it state it's Max range is about 80km anyway from open sources so Indian officials are just making shit up as usual.

Especially since as per article mentioned above me, states that they ordered more missiles from Russia.

According to Russian Tactical Missiles Corporation, the developer and producer of most of the Russian air-to-air missiles, the R-73’s range is 30 km. The range of its latest version, the RVV-MD, is 40 km.

It’s the same case with the R-77, which can hit targets at a distance of up to 80 km, while its latest version, the RVV-SD, can go up to 110 km.

And anyway, India's Hodge podge setup of using gear from every nation under the sun, and putting it into one airframe seems to not really work so well.

I suspect very shortly the Russians will reveal a new range of AAMs especially designed for long range use against stealthy targets specifically the F-35 and F-22, for the Su-57 to use, though of course such weapons will also be standard on the MiG-35 and Su-35.

I suspect they will be dual homing with IIR and ARH seekers to enable mixed use of sensor technology for engaging a wider variety of targets including a passive homing mode for jammers.

The combination of IIR sensors means the target can be examined so a towed jammer behind a fighter aircraft could be identified as such and the missile can attack the aircraft towing the jammer instead of hitting the towed decoy... it would also mean most radar stealth aircraft will be vulnerable to attack as most appear quite readily on IIR seekers.

Export models of Russian weapons often have range limits imposed on them via software... most countries would do that of course, and they will tell the client what the limits are even if they might not tell them what they could be expanded to of course.

For a very long time the Russians have very few upgraded aircraft in service that could use R-77s and sold rather more R-77s to China and India than they bought themselves as the only aircraft cleared to carry the R-77 during the 1990s and early 2000s was the MiG-29S, and ironically a few Su-25TMs.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/07/russia-sees-red-over-india-putting-british-missile-on-su-30.html

Well, took them some time but they finally react.

Isos wrote:https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/07/russia-sees-red-over-india-putting-british-missile-on-su-30.html

Well, took them some time but they finally react.

New Delhi has not sent Moscow any inquiries considering equipment of India’s Russian-made Su-30MKI fighter jets with missiles made in other countries, the deputy director of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), Vladimir Drozhzhov, told reporters. In February, media reported about India plans to equip its Su-30MKI fighters with UK-made ASRAAM missile systems and Israeli-made Spice-2000 bombs. “If the Indian partners want to install [on Su-30MKI fighters] the missiles that were never used with this aircraft before, of course, we would like to discuss this issue. The license agreement does not envisage an opportunity to equip third countries’ products on this aircraft

India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/

Cyberspec wrote:India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/

Maybe this time they will listen to Ruskies and stop trying to do equivalent of plugging Xbox gamepad into Nintendo Switch?

And don't try to use 60 mile range missile at target 80 mile away...

PapaDragon wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/

Maybe this time they will listen to Ruskies and stop trying to do equivalent of plugging Xbox gamepad into Nintendo Switch?

And don't try to use 60 mile range missile at target 80 mile away...

Or try to manipulate the max range of the torpedoes on your submarine...

Cyberspec wrote:India has sent to Russia a request for modernization of su-30MKI
https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/19/199750/

Will they use the irbis E hybrid PESA radar of.the su35 or will they insist for an AESA radar?

I heard that in the past they discussed to upgrade their su-30 with the Zukh-AM/AME radar (that I believe is the same offered as an option for the Mig-35), but such radar, even being an AESA, is still smaller and less powerful (having so inferior detection capabilities) than the Irbis-E.

And will they switch to using only Russian sensors navigation systems and avionics, or will they keep mixing there also french and israeli components?

Since Russia is planning a similar upgrade for their Su-30SM, and since Russia is now producing sensors and avionics not inferior to the western ones, it could be worth to try to uniform the two sets of upgrade as much as possible (of course keeping into account the difference between russian own components and their export version).

Snehesh Alex Philip

@sneheshphilip

Breaking: Today evening a Su-30 aircraft on a routine training mission from Tezpur crashed in the local flying area. Both pilots ejected safely from the aircraft and have been rescued. A Court of Inquiry will ascertain cause of the accident: IAF

State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has pitched for an order to manufacture four additional squadrons of the Su-30 MKI jets to quickly meet gaps in fighter squadron strength but the air force seems to be only keen on ordering replacements for aircraft that have been lost in accidents.


The proposal for manufacturing 72 more fighter jets to add to the current order for 272 was made by the HAL but officials said that the air force has not been keen due to budgetary issues. HAL is hopeful that an order for at least 10 additional aircraft is placed this year so that its Sukhoi manufacturing plant in Nasik does not fall idle.


“If we are looking at a strength of 42 squadrons for the air force, the fastest means of getting it is to go for more Light Combat Aircraft and the Su-30 MKI jets. We are currently making 12 of the fighters per year at the Nasik plant,” HAL chairman R Madhavan told ET.


The company has shared cost breakups to manufacture one, two, three or four squadrons, leaving it for the air force to take a call on the numbers that it wants. Sources have told ET that as of now, the air force is only looking at an order of 8-10 more of the jets to make up for accident losses.


A worry for HAL is that if orders for the jets are not placed this year, its manufacturing line in Nasik will go defunct and the base of Indian vendors that it has created over the past decades will get disrupted. HAL currently produces the jets for around ?450 crore each. “If the order does not come this year, there will be a two year gap before the line can be restarted as we have to order kits and other parts. The vendor base will be out of business and the ramp up after the gap will be both costly and time consuming,” Madhavan said.

HAL’s proposal, which his currently being discussed with the defence ministry, is to supply the additional aircraft at prices that have already been negotiated for older orders by adding the standard annual escalation.“This is the fastest method to get more fighter jets. The attrition rate of the older MiG 21s and Jaguar jets is very high.


Even if a contract is signed with a foreign manufacturer, it will take at least three years to get the first aircraft,” the HAL chief said, adding that the company is awaiting responses to its proposals from the air force and ministry of defence. The air force, which is awaiting the delivery of its first new Rafale fighter jets next month, is keen on adding to its order for 36 of the French origin aircraft, with sources telling ET that it requires at least two more squadrons.


The concern being a rapidly decreasing squadron strength that currently lies at 30 but is expected to dip rapidly over the next two years as the MiG 21 and 27 series of fighters are retired from service. An ongoing process to select a foreign partner and Indian manufacturer to make 114 new fighter jets under ‘Make in India’ expected to take at least five years and the air force’s worry is that its conventional edge could be blunted due to a lack of numbers.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/hal-pitches-for-4-more-squadrons-of-su-30mki/articleshow/70668419.cms?from=mdr

This was an issue during the February 27 engagement between Indian fighters and Pakistani F-16s, which launched AMRAAMS missiles beyond the R-77's max range (both missed), so the IAF's Su-30MKI could not engage the Pakistani fighters. 2/

But if the Amraams missed can you really say they actually do have a longer range... they were fired from a greater range than the R-77s would normally be launched from, but the fact that they missed suggests they were also fired from beyond their effective range too. I mean if the Indian pilots had fired their R-77s before the Pakistan pilots had fired their AMRAAMs and all the missiles missed who can say which missile has the best range?

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/refurbished-new-india-getting-su-30mki-fighter-jets-second-hand-engines-75456

“It was noticed while checking the records…that AL 31FP engines fitted in certain aircraft was in Cat B condition at the time of inspection / delivery to Indian Air Force (IAF),” according to a report that was seen by Deccan Chronicle.

Each IAF Su-30MKI is powered by a pair of AL-31FP turbofan engines.

Noteworthy Cat 2 (category B) or secondhand engines were installed into brand new Sukhoi 30 MKIs by HAL facility at Nashik without the knowledge and approval of the defence ministry.

However according to the report, what is surprising is the acceptance of such aircraft by the IAF. “Certain aircraft with one new and one old engine were wrongly accepted by IAF and the Directorate General of Aeronautical Quality Assurance. As these arrangements were not in tune with contractual provisions, it should have been rejected by IAF and DGAQA…. In any case, IAF should have obtained approval from MoD for accepting aircraft with one second hand engine.”

And Indians will again blame Russia, that they produce bad planes. It is really not surprising, that IAF Sukhois crashed that often, when others have no problems with them.

It is really not surprising, that IAF Sukhois crashed that often, when others have no problems with them

Not only sukhoi but every single class of indian's jets crashes because of poor maintenance. They just use much more russian types of aircraft so it gives the impression that russian planes crashes more than western made.

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2019/08/15/an-indian-facility-that-makes-su-30mki-jets-may-shut-down-toppling-400-local-suppliers/

“Each HAL-built Su-30MKI fighter costs around $70.3 million, where as a Russia-supplied fighter costs around $42.15 million,” the senior Air Force official said.


A senior MoD official said that Russia last month tried to pressure the Indian government to order an additional 72 Su-30MKI fighters with HAL, but the Indian Air Force is reluctant to place new orders in such a large number.


“The HAL built Su-30MKI fighter is not fully indigenized, only 51 percent is homemade, where the remaining 49 percent of supplies still comes from Russia,” said Bhim Sigh, a retired wing commander with the Indian Air Force.


Singh noted that most of the raw materials are sourced from Russia, including titanium blocks, forgings, aluminium and steel plates, as well as low-tech items such as nuts, bolts and screws.


HAL continues to depend on Russia as the original equipment manufacturer for components, raw material, servicing and overhaul of the fighters.

Interesting is, that Indian HAL made Su-30MKI is far more expensive than Russian made Su-30 although they build in used engines. It's even more funny that India have to import nuts, bolts and screws. it's really
not surprizing, that Indian made communications sucks and now India will urgently buy Israeli SDRs for their Suhkois, MiGs and Mirages.

From those 51% homemade was mostly imported from France, Israel, UK, South Afrika,...

he Su-30MKI Flanker currently forms the mainstay of the Indian Air Force’s combat fleet, with 11 of the service’s 27 fighter squadrons comprised of the aircraft and additional squadrons planned. The aircraft represents a significant enhancement over the original Su-27 Flanker, the Soviet Air Force’s most capable air superiority fighter which was designed to be able to counter all platforms in service in the Western Bloc at the time, and integrated new capabilities from its modern sensors, more powerful thrust vectoring capable engines and high composite airframe. The platform inherited the Su-27’s advanced air to air combat capabilities, but was capable of deploying a new generation of munitions and electronic warfare systems and had an avionics suite which not only made it more capable in an air superiority role - but also well suited to strike and maritime strike roles. Depending on its configuration, the Su-30MKI thus emerged as a truly multirole aircraft which excelled in all roles it was allocated - from a bomber using the SPICE 2000, a ship hunter or strike fighter using the BrahMos, an AWACS hunter using the K-100 or an air superiority fighter using the R-27ER and R-77.



While the Su-30MKI is already considered the most capable fighter in South Asia by a considerable margin, and the only fighter in the Indian fleet capable of going head to head with modern Chinese jets such as the J-11B and J-16, the design is set to be enhanced considerably with the integration of new weapons and technologies. The aircraft has been highlighted repeatedly as a possible replacement to India’s ageing Jaguar attack jets, and with the Indian Air Force planning to significantly expand its combat fleet from 32 to 42 squadrons production of more units under licence is seen as an effective means of doing so. Although a next generation replacement for the Su-30MKI is likely to begin to be ordered by the end of the 2020s - the Russian Su-57 fighter or a jointly manufactured twin seat derivative - the extent of India’s fighter modernisation plans and the advanced capabilities of the Flanker means that the country will likely retain it in service in upgraded form for several decades to come. An assessment of the upgrades and new munitions set to be integrated onto the Su-30MKI gives some indication as to its future capabilities.



Indian Air Force Su-30MKI Heavyweight Fighter
Indian Air Force Su-30MKI Heavyweight Fighter




Irbis-E ‘Stealth Hunter’ Radar



The Indian Air Force is reportedly planning to equip the Su-30 with the Irbis-E ‘stealth hunter’ radar - a platform developed for the newer Su-35 air superiority fighters. The Su-35 is a later derivative of the Flanker design which first entered service in 2014, and has a number of advantages over the Su-30MKI including a lower radar cross section, superior thrust vectoring capabilities, more powerful engines, a lighter composite airframe and a far more capable radar designed specifically to counter stealth fighters such as the American F-22 and Chinese J-20. Russian sources differ on the Irbis-E’s ability to lock onto stealth jets, with some claiming it can do so at 58km ranges while others place the range at 90km. With India fielding Flankers in their hundreds, should multiple fighters deploying Irbis-E radars share data from their sensors they will have an extremely high level of situational awareness few other fighter units can match - allowing them to seek and destroy adversaries including stealth fighters at long ranges. The radar will also better allow the fighters to make use of extreme range munitions such as the R-37M, and is more resistant to jamming by its potential targets.



Saturn AL-41FS Engines
Saturn AL-41FS Engines




Saturn AL-41FS



Another major technology from the Su-35 which Russia has offered to integrate onto older Flanker derivatives, the Saturn AL-41FS engine is considerably more powerful than the AL-31FP currently used by Indian Flankers. The engine benefits from advanced high and low-pressure turbines, a new digital control system, superior thrust vectoring nozzles and a longer lifespan. While thrust vectoring systems alone will improve the Flanker’s manoeuvrability substantially, the aircraft’s thrust/weight ratio will also improve with the new engines putting out 32,000 lbf of thrust with afterburner compared to just 27,700 lbf from the AL-31FP. New engines will not only increase the fighter’s endurance, but also make it more survivable and better suited to carrying heavier weapons payloads. Licence production of the AL-41FS in India is reportedly on offer should the country select the Su-35 as the winner of the MMRCA competition for a new Indian fighter.



R-37M Hypersonic Air to Air Missile
R-37M Hypersonic Air to Air Missile




R-37M



While the R-77 and the ER, ET and EA variants of the R-27 provide Indian Flankers with air to air engagement ranges of 110km and 130km respectively, the Indian Air Force has expressed an interest in acquiring more modern and longer ranged munitions for its fighters. The deployment of the PL-15 by China and possible future sale to Pakistan, a missile with a 200km range, and possible future deployment of the PL-21, PL-12D and PL-XX which are estimated to have similar or longer ranges, means that Indian Flankers could find themselves at a range disadvantage in standoff engagements. The R-37M was developed to equip the Su-35 and Su-57 next generation fighters of the Russian Air Force, but with the Irbis-E integrated onto the Su-30MKI it should be able to make full use of this missile's capabilities. The missile is one of just two classes of hypersonic air to air missile in production anywhere in the world, and ensures a short response time even for faraway targets due to its formidable speed of Mach 6. With a 400km engagement range, the missile will be able to engage most targets at four times their engagement range (the PL-12 and AIM-120 both have a range of around 100km). Their range and speed makes these missiles a far more effective ‘AWACS killer’ than the older K-100 the Indian Air Force currently deploys, and unlike this platform the R-37M is also highly viable against manoeuvrable fighter sized targets. While the capabilities of America’s upcoming AIM-260 and China’s PL-XX air to air missiles remain unknown, at present no missile can match the R-37's combination of speed and range.


A second class of air to air missile likely to be deployed by the Su-30MKI, the K-77 retains a shorter range of little over 190km but benefits from a number of unique technologies. The first missile to use an active phased array antenna guidance system, the missile's radar is capable of detecting fighters in a 360 degree arc - rather than 90-120 degrees as is common for other air to air missile types. This makes the missile almost impossible to evade even for the most manoeuvrable enemy fighters - Chinese Su-35 and J-10C jets included. Combined with a very long range, this makes the K-77 a unique and unparalleled asset - one which will make the Su-30MKI extremely lethal in beyond visual range engagements.



While the beyond visual range capabilities of the Su-30MKI are being seriously enhanced, to complement improvements to the fighter’s manoeuvrability new short ranged air to air missiles are likely to be acquired. The first if these is the K-74M, an enhancement of the R-73 with an expanded ±75° off boresight, a longer range, and fully digital and re-programmable systems. The second is the AIM-132 ASRAAM, a British equivalent to the AIM-9 sidewinder and the Russian R-73. Although its benefits over the other two platforms are minimal, it will provide Indian Flankers with greater diversity in their short range armaments which will present greater challenges for adversaries to counter. A third class of next generation missile, the K-MD, is currently under development and is likely to be available for export by the mid 2020s. The platform is a clean sheet design intended to meet the Russian Air Force’s needs in the 21’st century, and is expected to be considerably more capable than any short ranged air to air missile currently in service.



While Indian Su-30MKI fighters have deployed BrahMos cruise missiles for testing, large scale deployments have yet to take place. This could change particularly as India phases its Jaguar attack jets and MiG-27 strike fighters out of service and a new Su-30 squadrons are pressed into a strike role. The Mach 3 missile is reportedly capable of tearing warships in half with the sheer force of its impact, and is extremely difficult to intercept due to its high speed and manoeuvrability. With India and Russia reportedly jointly developing a more capable variant of the BrahMos capable of surpassing Mach 5, such missiles are also likely to be deployed by the Su-30MKI when they become available. Russia has tested similar hypersonic missile technologies successfully in the past, and their sale to India for an air launched platform is likely to be on offer by the mid 2020s.



Even after receiving its first French Rafale fighter, a lighter lower performance jet set to be acquired in small numbers, the Su-30MKI remains by far the most capable fighter in the Indian fleet. Unless the Su-35 is selected as the victor of the MMRCA competition, providing India with a second more modern Flanker derivative, the Su-30MKI will remain India's most capable fighter for the foreseeable future. Once upgraded with new air to air missile technologies, sensors and engines the fighter will be able to hold its own against all manner of high end adversaries including fifth generation fighters such as the Project AZM jet despite its lack of stealth capabilities - particularly considering the vast numerical advantages the Indian Flanker will enjoy and the sheer scale on which it is set to be acquired.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/creating-the-most-dangerous-fighter-in-south-asia-major-enhancements-to-india-s-su-30mki-by-2025