Indian Su-30MKI: News

AJ-47 wrote:

Sujoy wrote:
A lot of countries are developing LITENING pods indigenously . Israel did develop the Sharpshooter LITENING targeting pod for it's F 15 I . However , they were less capable than the LANTRIN pods . SO Israel replaced their Sharpshooter LITENING targeting pod with the LANTRIN pods

Not a lot of countries just a few. Israel sold more then 1,000 Litening pods, and now they working with Northrop to develop the Litening AT.
As far as I know the Litening is consist of navigation and targeting system "all in one".
The Thales Damocles, that India and russia bought has targeting and navigation system in the same pod. Rafael was in this bid too, but the French win.

The following countries in Asia are in the process of developing indigenous LITENING pods ( albeit with foreign inputs)- Japan , South Korea , India , China , Turkey

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_super-sukhois-to-give-india-a-generation-leap_1590530


http://www.rediff.com/news/report/on-the-anvil-5th-generation-super-sukhois/20110908.htm

http://www.defencenow.com/news/279/indias-su-30-mki-to-be-upgraded-to-super-sukhoi-by-russia.html

THE SUPER SUKHOI PROGRAM

Under this program the SU 30 MKI of the IAF will be converted into formidable MRCAs called Super Sukhoi .
Under the program Irkut will redesign the SU 30 MKI in such a way that they are transformed from Air Dominance aircrafts to air supremacy aircrafts . The upgrades,will include the strengthening and service life-extension of the Su-30MKI airframes , installation of uprated turbofans, new glass cockpit avionics, mission management avionics, and integrated defensive aids suites. Deliveries are expected to begin from 2015 through 2018 for the first batch of SUper Sukhois .

The Super Sukhoi airframe strengthening programme when completed, will enable each of the Super Sukhois to carry two 290km-range underwing BrahMos supersonic multi-role (land-attack and maritime strike) cruise missiles (which itself is presently undergoing a weight reduction program), and also include two uprated Lyulka AL-31FP turbofans. The AL-31FP, presently rated at 126kN with afterburning, will offer 20% more power when uprated by NPO Saturn—its manufacturer--and will have a total technical service life of 6,000 hours, instead of the present 2,000 hours.

The glass cockpit avionics package, is currently being developed by Avionica MRPC and Tekhnocomplex Scientific and Production Centre . It will include new-generation hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) controls made by KB Aviaavtomatika, panoramic active-matrix liquid crystal displays, and a compact OLS infra-red search-and-track sensor developed by Urals Optical & Mechanical Plant. The mission management avionics package will include dual redundant core avionics computers developed by DRDO and Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) ( in collaboration with Cassidian , Germany) and will be built by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). The integrated defensive aids suite,will include the AAR-60(V)2 MILDS F missile approach warning system, the EW management computer and Tarang Mk3 radar warning receiver , a countermeasures dispenser, a reusable fibre-optic ABRL active radar towed-decoy using suppression,TsNIRTI-developed expendable active electronic decoys, deception and seduction techniques, and an internal EW suite supplied by Elettronica of Italy (the same suit used in the MiG-29UPG).

The principal on-board mission management avionics components of the Super Sukhois will be the multi-mode MIRES X-band active electronically steered-array (AESA) multi-mode radar (MMR), developed and built by V Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Instrument Design along with Ryazan Instrument-Making Plant Federal State Unitary Enterprise, and modular L-band and S-band transmit/receive (T/R) modules that will be housed within the Su-30MKI’s forward wing and wing-root sections, as well as on the vertical tail sections. The MIRES, using the back-end elements of the Su-30MKI’s existing NO-11M Bars PESA-based MMR, will be able to simultaneously perform up to five ‘core’ functions, comprising look-up and shoot-up; look-down and shoot-down; directional jamming of hostile data-links; real-beam ground mapping via Doppler-beam sharpening in the inverse synthetic aperture radar (ISAR) mode; and ground moving target indication.

The AMLCD configuration is derived from what was originally designed for the Su-35.Other new-generation avionics to be installed on the Super Sukhoi will include the RAM-1701AS radio altimeter, TACAN-2901AJ and DME-2950A tactical air navigation system combined with the ANS-1100A VOL/ILS marker, CIT-4000A Mk12 IFF transponder, COM-1150A UHF standby comms radio, UHF SATCOM transceiver, and the SDR-2010 SoftNET four-channel software-defined radio (working in VHF/UHF and L-band for voice and data communications), and the Bheem-EU brake control/engine/electrical monitoring system, all of which have been developed in-house by the Hyderabad-based Strategic Electronics R & D Centre of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). The digital air data computers and flight data recorders and their automated test benches will be supplied by Bengaluru-based SLN Technologies Pvt Ltd.

For air dominance operations the upgraded Super Sukhoi will be armed with two types of new-generation air combat missiles from Vympel JSC: the RVV-MD within-visual-range missile, and the RVV-SD beyond-visual-range missile.As for new-generation air-to-ground PGMs as and when they become available from Russia or elsewhere, depending on the operational reqmts, they will be easily integrated with the Super Sukhoi's navigation-and-attack system due to its open-architecture design.

Thanks. Sounds like quite an upgrade...

Actually , India needs around 100 Super Sukhois that will be armed with Brahmos Block 3 which can be fired from 500kms. However , with the current defense budget the Air Force will only be able to afford 42 Super Sukhois by the end of this decade as the upgradation is extremely expensive . Also, if the AL 41F engine is ready by say 2015 there is a possibility that the Super Sukhoi will also sport this new engine.

will the rafale .tejas or mig29 ..carry brahmos missiles ?

the intresting thing is by 2025 india will have most of the advanced fighters

rafale . tejas-upgraded .super su-30 . mig29 upgraded and fgfa

i wonder which fighters china and pakis will have by 2025

ricky123 wrote:will the rafale .tejas or mig29 ..carry brahmos missiles ?

No , none of these platforms are big enough to carry the air launched BRAHMOS . The Rafale is not an open architecture platform so it is unable to use any weapons other than those for which it has been configured. The Rafale will be armed probably with the Taurus KEPD-350 cruise missiles, and the Brimstone .The principal lightweight PGM destined for the Tejas Mk2 (as well as for the Rafale) is likely to be the AASM Hammer modular air-to-ground weapon

ricky123 wrote:i wonder which fighters china and pakis will have by 2025

Pakistan - J 10 , J 17 ( Block 3) , J 31 ,F-16 D Block 52+
China - J 17 ( Block 3), J20 , J21 , Su 30 MKM

Sujoy wrote:THE SUPER SUKHOI PROGRAM
Under this program the SU 30 MKI of the IAF will be converted into formidable MRCAs called Super Sukhoi .

Is this an India specific program or are there other countries as well whose Su 30s will be upgraded ?

War&Peace wrote:Is this an India specific program or are there other countries as well whose Su 30s will be upgraded ?

As of now " India specific " . Algeria and Malaysia have shown interest in upgrading their Su 30s . Will their upgradation plan be as extensive as that of India's , I doubt it as the extensive upgradation that India's Sukhois will go through is a very expensive proposition . Once India starts using it's Super Sukhois I suspect Vietnam may show interest in the Super Sukhoi as well to counter Chinese J 20/J 21 and possibly Su 35.

it says super-su-30 will have 5th gen stuff . will it then be able to beat the other 5th gen fighters ...
and since india is get these upgraded and other aircraft like mig21 and mirage2000 going out of service in 2017 wont there be a gap where india will have the least number of fighters ever .i mean for that much time india will be vulnerable dont u think

Any plane can beat any plane in the right moment.

That being said, there is nothing explicitly "5th-gen" about the Super Sukhoi- its just a serious all around hardware upgrade, that will greatly increase its potency vs anything in the region.

5th gen is just marketing terminology in any case.

Mirage 2000 is being upgraded so it won't be phased out this decade.
Vulnerability is relative- as the Indian nuclear arsenal and delivery options increase, a fighter "gap" becomes less worrying.

pakistani jets have entered india territory quite a few times in the last few years .. and were able to go back safely .. doesnt india have a interceptor ?

ricky123 wrote: it says super-su-30 will have 5th gen stuff . will it then be able to beat the other 5th gen fighters ...

Even the Su 30 MKI can defeat 5th gen aircrafts in a one to one encounter . The Super Sukhoi will have an RCS much smaller than the Su 30 MKI , so defeating the Super Sukhoi in BVR conflict will also become much difficult.

ricky123 wrote:and since india is get these upgraded and other aircraft like mig21 and mirage2000 going out of service in 2017 wont there be a gap where india will have the least number of fighters ever .i mean for that much time india will be vulnerable dont u think

India is vunerable right now . Going forward things will only improve . To tide over the shortage Jaguars and Mig 27s are being upgraded .

ricky123 wrote:pakistani jets have entered india territory quite a few times in the last few years .. and were able to go back safely .. doesnt india have a interceptor ?

For this you need SAMs not necessarily interceptors . That said , the MIG 29s and Mig 21s can very easily take out any Paki aircraft . If they entered Indian airspace it was inadvertent . The last time their aircraft entered Indian territory in 1999 , it was shot down by Mig 21s.

TR1 wrote:That being said, there is nothing explicitly "5th-gen" about the Super Sukhoi- its just a serious all around hardware upgrade, that will greatly increase its potency vs anything in the region.

Actually TR1 there is going to be an extensive "RAM treatment" for the Super Sukhoi . Also, the entire EW suit is 5th gen .

RAM treatment's have been around for a while, hardly a revolutionary "5th gen" trait.

EW I will give you, with the space and power available on the MKI there is no reason a "top-of-the-line" system can't be installed.

[quote="Sujoy"]

ricky123 wrote: The Rafale will be armed probably with the Taurus KEPD-350 cruise missiles

Rafale will never be armed with Taurus. It is configured for SCALP-EG, the French won't configure redundant weapons unless it is a deal breaker. Taurus is hardly that.

TR1 wrote:RAM treatment's have been around for a while, hardly a revolutionary "5th gen" trait.

Two things . First the Super Sukhoi is officially still a 4th/4++ gen aircraft . Second and more importantly, it is not the RAM treatment per se but the type of RAM treatment that is revolutionary.The limited optical visibility, of the Super Sukhoi is largely attributed to the use of metamaterials and so-called “e-camouflage” in the more recent versions of the Super Sukhoi. The negative refraction index of metamaterials makes them an ideal means for camouflaging military targets, as they cannot be discovered by radio reconnaissance equipment within a
certain range of frequencies. This technology will be fine tuned in the PAK FA but it makes it's debut on the Super Sukhoi.

Vladimir79 wrote:Rafale will never be armed with Taurus. It is configured for SCALP-EG,

But the Taurus is being used by Germany and Spain . The Tornado and F 18 were not configured initially to carry the Taurus.

Also, as I said in my earlier post that it is a probability . As on this date the IAF has only issued an RFI for CALCMs.It remains to be seen if the Taurus will be made available with range limitations (300km) or not (600+km). Dassault stated during the MMRCA competition that the Rafale can be configured for the Taurus and the Storm Shadow.

Vladimir79 wrote:the French won't configure redundant weapons unless it is a deal breaker. Taurus is hardly that.

If the French do NOT learn now they never will . Inspite of loosing innumerable contracts.
Unlike its US-based counterparts, French aerospace OEMs have, since the 1990s, failed to grasp the enormous marketing advantages offered by way of industrial synergies when it comes to export-driven marketing strategies. For instance, for marketing the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet on a global scale, OEMs like Boeing Defense & Aerospace, GE Aero Engines, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman formed an integrated consortium as far back as 2001 and to all prospective export customers, it is this unified military-industrial consortium that has given technical presentations and conducted in-country product demonstrations, and most importantly, has also successfully implemented multi-party and multi-disciplinary direct/indirect industrial offsets obligations. In stark contrast, the Rafale’s marketing campaign has been conducted to date solely by Dassault Aviation, with other French OEMs like THALES, Sagem Défense Sécurité and Snecma Moteurs being left alone to promote their sub-systems and components on board the Rafale through their own individual ways and means.

Sujoy wrote:

But the Taurus is being used by Germany and Spain . The Tornado and F 18 were not configured initially to carry the Taurus.

Also, as I said in my earlier post that it is a probability . As on this date the IAF has only issued an RFI for CALCMs.It remains to be seen if the Taurus will be made available with range limitations (300km) or not (600+km). Dassault stated during the MMRCA competition that the Rafale can be configured for the Taurus and the Storm Shadow.

Germany and Spain don't make or use the Rafale, it is a French plane with its own local weapons. Taurus would have been a likely option if Eurofighter had won, but that is history. Rafale can be configured to carry just about anything, but France isn't going to pay for it as the customer would be required to foot the bill for customization options. btw Storm Shadow is what the UK calls SCALP-EG. It is a French made missile with a UK penetrator.

If the French do NOT learn now they never will . Inspite of loosing innumerable contracts.
Unlike its US-based counterparts, French aerospace OEMs have, since the 1990s, failed to grasp the enormous marketing advantages offered by way of industrial synergies when it comes to export-driven marketing strategies. For instance, for marketing the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet on a global scale, OEMs like Boeing Defense & Aerospace, GE Aero Engines, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman formed an integrated consortium as far back as 2001 and to all prospective export customers, it is this unified military-industrial consortium that has given technical presentations and conducted in-country product demonstrations, and most importantly, has also successfully implemented multi-party and multi-disciplinary direct/indirect industrial offsets obligations. In stark contrast, the Rafale’s marketing campaign has been conducted to date solely by Dassault Aviation, with other French OEMs like THALES, Sagem Défense Sécurité and Snecma Moteurs being left alone to promote their sub-systems and components on board the Rafale through their own individual ways and means.

The French like to sell everything in packaged deals. They might eek out a few minor wins going with peace-meal strategy but when they win big, it makes up for the little losses. They are being undercut by the US at almost every turn and they could never compete with them on cost thanks to America's production of scale and options. None of Rafale's sales pitch has gone without Thales or Safran. They are part of the Rafale International team. Not only do they go in unified, they also have state backing which makes it a strategic decision to go with team France. France could have already won Brasil and Switzerland if they had been willing to make political concessions, but it isn't worth it to them so they let Rafale stand on its own merits. India's MRCA contract alone is enough to justify the entire programme when it is signed. More deals will follow as that is what all the potential customers are waiting for.

Vladimir79 wrote:
Germany and Spain don't make or use the Rafale, it is a French plane with its own local weapons.

The point I am making is that Germany and France are flying the Tornado & F 18 that are now configured to fire the Taurus ( but were initially not).

Vladimir79 wrote:Taurus would have been a likely option if Eurofighter had won, but that is history.

On the contrary the Typhoons ability to launch cruise missiles is still "evolving" ( to use a term used in the UK parliament to define Typhoon's ground attack capabilities)

Vladimir79 wrote: Rafale can be configured to carry just about anything,

Meteor works on a two way data interlink to provide mid-course target updates or retargeting which will not be supported by the Rafale's one way data interlink unlike the two way data interlink of the Typhoon. However, Dassault in it's ToT presentation had stated that the Rafale Tranche 3 that India will probably get in 2015 will be based on open architecture.

Vladimir79 wrote: They are being undercut by the US at almost every turn and they could never compete with them on cost thanks to America's production of scale and options.

That's why they are developing a closer synergy with the UK . A French loss will now invariably have an impact on America's closest ally . The US wins deals because it provides a subtle assurance that purchasing US equipments will ensure greater synergy between US and the buying nation and so if the need arises to blow a "dictator" or a "the axis of exil" till kingdom comes the US will be happy to play more than just second fiddle.

Vladimir79 wrote:None of Rafale's sales pitch has gone without Thales or Safran. They are part of the Rafale International team. Not only do they go in unified, they also have state backing which makes it a strategic decision to go with team France.

With respect I beg to disagree . Of the 3 Defense expos / Air shows that I have attended this year in India ( the largest in Asia) and abroad Thales , Safran and Dassault had separate stalls to showcase their own products. There was absolutely NO mention of their JVs, collaboration etc. On the contrary US companies had clearly highlighted who their local & international partners were. Showcasing a local partner is more important than showcasing an international partner. In Boeing's Future Roadmap for India presentation during the MMRCA competition Boeing had listed out the names of at least 10 Indian companies who will benefit if the Super Hornet wins the competition ( they did not mention to what extent) .

Simply stating that these are the partner companies do not help . You have to state why they are your partners.Over time such collaborations attain a brand name of their own . Take a look at the Star Alliance in the aviation sector . They give customers a world of benefits to entice them to fly their partner airline. First , France was not the fastest off the block and second now the loosely cobbled alliance that they have ( on paper at least) gives the impression that we have this alliance because one company by itself cannot swing for the fences.

Addendum -

India will eventually operate 350 SU 30 MKIs ( including SUper Sukhois) .

The IAF intends to upgrade all their SU 30 MKI Standard 3 to the Super Sukhoi .

Wait, what? That is major news I haven't seen anywhere!
From where are the extra Sus coming from?

The total number including the 40 from Russia is still 272 AFAIK.

^^^
Yup final number is 272. 3 gone and now it stands at 269.

TR1 wrote:Wait, what? That is major news I haven't seen anywhere!

A number of IAF officers have spoken in private to various media houses , both foreign & domestic .

Apparently, whatever the situation, the Su-30MKI will remain the core fighter for the Indian Air Force. After President Vladimir Putin signed another major contract for supplies of the Su-30MKI to India during his visit in December 2012, the portfolio of contracted fighters was expanded to 272 machines, more than 150 of which have already been delivered to India. British Flight magazine has reported with reference to sources in the Indian manufacturing sector that India was planning to operate up to 350 fighters of this type.

http://indrus.in/world/2013/02/19/are_we_losing_out_on_the_indian_market_22359.html

Indian Pilots giving lots of praise and acclaim for the SU-30MKI: