If the west had not interfered in the Ukraine there would not be an internationally recognised term called orange revolution.
Perhaps the rest of the world needs to impose sanctions on the west and the EU?
- I can only hope so, they are the "true" aggressors.GarryB wrote:What annoys me most is that the west is imposing sanctions against Russia for something it does on a daily basis and continues to do now.
If the west had not interfered in the Ukraine there would not be an internationally recognised term called orange revolution.
Perhaps the rest of the world needs to impose sanctions on the west and the EU?
Mike E wrote:- I can only hope so, they are the "true" aggressors.GarryB wrote:What annoys me most is that the west is imposing sanctions against Russia for something it does on a daily basis and continues to do now.
If the west had not interfered in the Ukraine there would not be an internationally recognised term called orange revolution.
Perhaps the rest of the world needs to impose sanctions on the west and the EU?
higurashihougi wrote:Mike E wrote:- I can only hope so, they are the "true" aggressors.GarryB wrote:What annoys me most is that the west is imposing sanctions against Russia for something it does on a daily basis and continues to do now.
If the west had not interfered in the Ukraine there would not be an internationally recognised term called orange revolution.
Perhaps the rest of the world needs to impose sanctions on the west and the EU?
Justice belongs to the one who possesses the largest amount of money.
And it's time for Russia to ignore the West and focus on potential contractors in other regions.
Mike E wrote:
At least Hollande seems to be "warming up"
Ok, he isn't "warming up"... At the very least he is coming to his senses now that he understands that France must deliver the Mistrals... There is no denying that he is, even if just a little, screwing with the Western leaders who oppose the deal. - Aka, he knows that France will suffer economically if the deal is cancelled or delayed further. No money = no way to pay the workers (or out of pocket) = loss etc. He probably also respects the fact that this delay makes their MIC look bad, but that could just be me.magnumcromagnon wrote:Mike E wrote:
At least Hollande seems to be "warming up"
Warming up to whom presumably?
Mike E wrote:Ok, he isn't "warming up"... At the very least he is coming to his senses now that he understands that France must deliver the Mistrals... There is no denying that he is, even if just a little, screwing with the Western leaders who oppose the deal. - Aka, he knows that France will suffer economically if the deal is cancelled or delayed further. No money = no way to pay the workers (or out of pocket) = loss etc. He probably also respects the fact that this delay makes their MIC look bad, but that could just be me.magnumcromagnon wrote:Mike E wrote:
At least Hollande seems to be "warming up"
Warming up to whom presumably?
magnumcromagnon wrote:Mike E wrote:
At least Hollande seems to be "warming up"
Warming up to whom presumably?
Don't get your hopes up.... France will deliver the Mistrals, it is a question of "when" not "if". Plus the Dokdo is smaller, has a lesser payload, and can only support 10 helicopters...medo wrote:http://vpk.name/news/118017_koreec_vmesto_francuza.html
Russia could buy South Korean Dokdo ships instead of Mistrals and they could be built in Zvezda shipyard in Vladivostok. Those ships would be fully rusified and all US components would be replaced with Russian components.
ill belive it ,when i see it!Mike E wrote:Minister: Russia Plans to Get Mistral Warship in Fall, as Scheduled
MOSCOW, September 25 (RIA Novosti) – Russia expects France to deliver the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier this fall, as scheduled, Russian Industry and Trade Minister Denis Manturov said Thursday.
"Russia plans to get Mistral warships at a previously agreed date," he told RIA Novosti.
In 2011, the two countries signed a contract for two French-built Mistral class amphibious assault ships worth 1.2 billion euro ($1.5 billion at the current exchange rate). Under the deal, the first warship, the Vladivostok, is to be delivered in 2014 and the second, the Sevastopol, in 2015.
Earlier in September the office of French President Francois Hollande threatened to suspend the delivery of the helicopter carriers, linking his decision to the crisis in Ukraine and claiming that Moscow was directly involved in it. However, a French diplomatic source told RIA Novosti that the delivery of the ship had not been put off and that the president's statement did not have any legal consequences.
Later, Hollande stated that he would make a final decision on the delivery of the helicopter carriers by the end of October based on the situation in eastern Ukraine.
The first of the two Mistral carriers built for Russia, Vladivostok, finished a series of tests earlier this week.
- Believe it Navyfield!
You really are something, aren't you? Time after time we've proved to you that they will be delivered on time, and even if they aren't, Moskva will receive a large amount of money! - There is no downside here, sorry, but you (and I for that matter) can't complain... France is between a rock and a hard place, what do you think they are going to do? - Not deliver the ships, causing them to lose jobs and a ton of money, or deliver them, making (or losing) very little money, without losing the jobs...navyfield wrote:ill belive it ,when i see it!Mike E wrote:Minister: Russia Plans to Get Mistral Warship in Fall, as Scheduled
MOSCOW, September 25 (RIA Novosti) – Russia expects France to deliver the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier this fall, as scheduled, Russian Industry and Trade Minister Denis Manturov said Thursday.
"Russia plans to get Mistral warships at a previously agreed date," he told RIA Novosti.
In 2011, the two countries signed a contract for two French-built Mistral class amphibious assault ships worth 1.2 billion euro ($1.5 billion at the current exchange rate). Under the deal, the first warship, the Vladivostok, is to be delivered in 2014 and the second, the Sevastopol, in 2015.
Earlier in September the office of French President Francois Hollande threatened to suspend the delivery of the helicopter carriers, linking his decision to the crisis in Ukraine and claiming that Moscow was directly involved in it. However, a French diplomatic source told RIA Novosti that the delivery of the ship had not been put off and that the president's statement did not have any legal consequences.
Later, Hollande stated that he would make a final decision on the delivery of the helicopter carriers by the end of October based on the situation in eastern Ukraine.
The first of the two Mistral carriers built for Russia, Vladivostok, finished a series of tests earlier this week.
- Believe it Navyfield!
Russia Demands Final Decision on Mistral Warships or Money Back
Russia's Foreign Ministry has demanded that France make a clear statement regarding the delivery status of the first of two Mistral-class warships at the end of October. If Paris decides to cancel the deal then the Foreign Ministry says the money should be returned.
"It's time for the French to determine their position because this summer we heard that, despite the current situation, the contract will be honored. … It is time now to decide, and if not, the money should be returned," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Alexander Lukashevich said, the RIA Novosti news agency reported Thursday.
In early September, French President Francois Hollande, under pressure from several NATO allies to refrain from giving the ships to Russia in response to Moscow's annexation of Crimea and support for rebels in eastern Ukraine, said the delivery would only go through if the situation in Ukraine improved.
Russia has continuously protested any potential cancellation of the delivery, demanding that France honor the 1.2 billion euro ($1.5 billion) deal.
"The situation is quite simple: There is a contract that should be completed. Under this contract, significant [sums of money] were transferred," said Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Alexander Lukashevich, RIA Novosti reported Thursday.
If things have changed on the French side, Lukashevich added, "this needs to be discussed [face to face], not through the methods of megaphone diplomacy, especially through the media."
Translation wrote:The dubious attitude of France displeased Russia, therefore Russia has sent a final message to demand a clear answer to the affairs. If France breaks the contract, it has to pay a huge sum of money. And the finished Mistrals also have to be scrapped because parts of these Mistrals are made by Russia.
The most damage France is that its reputation in weapon market. Analysists warned that France will have to pay dearly if it breaks the contract with Russia. Because France's contractors will lost their trust and abandon France.
They are "mad" enough to elect their current leaders!GarryB wrote:The French would be mad to give up this contract, and the French generally are not mad.
They can, however be very stubborn, but in this case it is France doing as it is told by the US... which is something it wont like anyway.
I am pretty sure the future of large scale cooperation with France is unlikely for Russia now and I suspect contracts for the future will mainly involve domestic production of French products that involve domestic components to avoid this sort of situation again...
In practical terms these are just helicopter carriers. The Russians will likely use their command capability and of course their landing capability in the north and the Pacific, and in humanitarian situations the large numbers of hospital beds and advanced medical facilities on board will be very useful for a range of humanitarian situations... from friendship visits to africa and asia and the pacific islands, though to disaster relief for floods, tsunamis, earthquakes and other natural disasters.
Like GarryB I both said, they will *have* to deliver them. It is a matter of when and not if. They've been threatening this whole time to cancel/delay further, and guess what, they haven't done a thing!sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719
Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.