Mistral News thread

sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

What consequences?

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

What consequences?

A huge fine stipulated in the contract, that is in fact many times larger than the sum of money to deliver the Mistrals (because Moscow predicted their would be problems). Francois Hollande truly is an imbecile, so I'm not surprised that he's one of the least popular politicians in recent French political history.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

What consequences?

A huge fine stipulated in the contract, that is in fact many times larger than the sum of money to deliver the Mistrals (because Moscow predicted their would be problems). Francois Hollande truly is an imbecile, so I'm not surprised that he's one of the least popular politicians in recent French political history.

I've recently heard that the minimum payment to Russia if the deal is cancelled, is ~3.8 billion... That would be pretty devastating, more so when they already built the ships. That being said, Russia could put that money to good use... Maybe a carrier, or a couple more Boreis with that money would sure as heck send a message! 

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

What consequences?

Consequences are:

-Payback for going against contract is much more than the ships value
-Losing the image of being a trustworthy supplier. Could damage image and thus prevent further sales in the future from Russia and other countries.

I read in wikipedia that the mistral will only have AK-630 and seperate gibka launchers . Although its still better than brownings this ISN'T a step into the future. I guess garry's and my excpectations for a pantsyr or kashtan armed mistral were wrong. I don 't understand why the russians of all people would choose such a minimalistic AA armament approach for one of their most important ships. Couldn't they just slapped on a palash if space was a concern(which I serously doubt)?

KomissarBojanchev wrote:I read in wikipedia that the mistral will only have AK-630 and seperate gibka launchers . Although its still better than brownings this ISN'T a step into the future.  I guess garry's and my excpectations for a pantsyr or kashtan armed mistral were wrong. I don 't understand why the russians of all people would choose such a minimalistic AA armament approach for one of their most important ships.  Couldn't they just slapped on a palash if space was a concern(which I serously doubt)?

Yeah, cause wiki is such a great source... In all honesty, the armament of the Russian Mistrals appears to be highly secretive, though I doubt they'd resort to -630's. Anyone know more on this subject?

I think that it will be equipped with the Palash (at least) myself, as RU Navy is using them on the Gorshkov. A couple of them plus a Pantsir-M or 9M100 system of some kind would be more than adequate...

EDIT; From what I just found, it will have two Palash CIWS, two Gibka launchers, two twin-barreled A-220M guns, and two AK-630's... If this is true, that would add up to a pretty capable defensive armament. Can this be confirmed?

Wiki is just amateur speculation that actually sounds just like the Russian equivalent of the French armament.

And the Russians are known to give their ships good armaments.

higurashihougi wrote:

GarryB wrote:Wiki is just amateur speculation that actually sounds just like the Russian equivalent of the French armament.

And the Russians are known to give their ships good armaments.

What about Russian Wikipedia ?

It wouldn't be any better... The problem is the terrible editors + open source "design". Anyone who has access to the site can change it.

GarryB is right about the "equivalent" part. That being said, it is still hard to find good info on the armament.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:I read in wikipedia that the mistral will only have AK-630 and seperate gibka launchers . Although its still better than brownings this ISN'T a step into the future.  I guess garry's and my excpectations for a pantsyr or kashtan armed mistral were wrong. I don 't understand why the russians of all people would choose such a minimalistic AA armament approach for one of their most important ships.  Couldn't they just slapped on a palash if space was a concern(which I serously doubt)?

This has been known for a while.

You might get Duet if you have been extra good this year, but don't count on it.

I expect Gibka and AK-630.

I remember a poster than included Gibka, but it also included a 57mm gun turret and Palma.



Translations?

It has a radar positiv-ME1, palash ciws,gibka. Want me to translate further?

OK GarryB, that matches up with what I found... Good!

Want me to translate further?

The critical part... bottom left... last line...

Does it say sources: and then name manufacturers of the weapons?

I can tell it is Itar-TASS.

What I want to know is is this official or just speculation...

BTW Palma with laser homing missiles and 30mm gatlings, plus a 57mm gun turret with laser homing shells offers quite effective defence, with Gibka and Duet.... any attacking threat would face several significant barriers to reaching these ships.

GarryB wrote:

Want me to translate further?

The critical part... bottom left... last line...

Does it say sources: and then name manufacturers of the weapons?

I can tell it is Itar-TASS.

What I want to know is is this official or just speculation...

BTW Palma with laser homing missiles and 30mm gatlings, plus a 57mm gun turret with laser homing shells offers quite effective defence, with Gibka and Duet.... any attacking threat would face several significant barriers to reaching these ships.

Yes, it states the sources the source kbtochmash.ru they produce Palma
http://www.kbtochmash.ru/productions-service/production/

typhoon-jsc.ru produces the Positive-ME1 radar.
http://typhoon-jsc.ru/index.php/production-and-services/special-purpose/pozitiv-me1

and ratep.ru does not give much information

So yes this are not just speculations but manufactorers numbers.

What technology, weapons and Helicopters does Russia plan on using for the Mistral class ships(assuming Russia gets them?

Which Fleet will get the Mistral class ships?

What part of the world will Russia use the Mistral class in?

It will have Ak-630 and Gibka, and probably nothing else.

The big technology (apart from building process) that is supposed to come with them is Zenit.

TR1 wrote:It will have Ak-630 and Gibka, and probably nothing else.

The big technology (apart from building process) that is supposed to come with them is Zenit.

Sources and the picture-thingy GarryB posted suggest otherwise, though the AK-630 and Gibka are the only confirmed weapons so far. We'll need to wait on this one, there is a lack of information to say the least!

Those sources are typical infographics that are always innacurate as hell. Is there any good source that points to it?
The graphics made by the French builder shows the Russian spec ship with only Ak-630 and Gibka.

For example, can you show me that double barell A-220M exists? Burevestnik has only started testing the single barrel version, and it has not even been mounted on any vessel yet. The Mistrals contract wise are/were supposed to be handed over very soon, I doubt they planned to get the ships, then wait years for new weapons to become available, before commissioning the ship.

It doesn't add up. But Gibka and good old AK-630 does.

TR1 wrote:Those sources are typical infographics that are always innacurate as hell. Is there any good source that points to it?
The graphics made by the French builder shows the Russian spec ship with only Ak-630 and Gibka.

For example, can you show me that double barell A-220M exists? Burevestnik has only started testing the single barrel version, and it has not even been mounted on any vessel yet. The Mistrals contract wise are/were supposed to be handed over very soon, I doubt they planned to get the ships, then wait years for new weapons to become available, before commissioning the ship.

It doesn't add up. But Gibka and good old AK-630 does. 

Here we go again...

And? Who said the French builder is aware of the exact armament? The Palash's can be mounted with ease, probably even with modifications to the ship...

Nope, but can you show me that is doesn't exist? A double-barreled variant wouldn't be hard to design or produce when the original is completed. This could be an add-on over time kind of thing anyway.

It doesn't add up... That is the Russian equivalent of the Frenchs' armament and not much more.

I'll be sure to bump this when the armament is exactly as I claim it will be.

TR1 wrote:I'll be sure to bump this when the armament is exactly as I claim it will be.

Ok! Not saying it isn't Gibka + AK-630, as I said earlier, those two are just about confirmed. The others seem to be on-board as well, only time will tell...

There is plenty of space on the Mistral and russia is not under arming their weapon plattforms like other countries do, russia is prone of using lot of weaponary on vessels.