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good news but its taking too long time ,2017?? like they are developing something brand new not an upgrade...
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76 posters
Pantsir-S1 News Thread:
Rpg type 7v- Posts : 245
Points : 97
Join date : 2011-05-01
GarryB- Posts : 40546
Points : 41046
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
The logic of the family system is that an Armata brigade is made up of all armata based vehicles so all the vehicles in the unit have the same basic mobility and protection characteristics... so you don't get a situation where half the unit can be easily picked off with anti armour weapons like with current units with a mix of light medium and heavy vehicles.Agreed. Using a costly Armata chassis for an AA system will limit the number of deployed Armata Pantirs for the heavy brigade. The few they will have should carry as much armament as possible. 18 would make more sense though as the missiles are currently carried on racks with three missiles each.
(ie a current brigade would have MBTs plus BMP IFVs and BTR APCs as well as ACRV command vehicles etc, whereas a heavy brigade will have all vehicles with MBT level protection as they are all based on the armata chassis. The added advantage is that all the vehicles will have compatible parts and engines and components so the logistics tail is shorter and simpler... ie one wheel type same transmission and gearing parts/design etc.)
Armata brigades will be more expensive but much fewer in number than other units, certainly an armata based Pantsir-S1 could be fitted with more than 6 missiles per side... there are mock pictures of truck based Hermes systems which look like Grad launchers with 40 long tubes mounted on the rear of a truck... certainly an armata Pantsir-S1 vehicle with perhaps 9 missiles per side instead of 6 making 18 ready to fire missiles instead of 12 would be fairly simple to implement, but also perhaps a TOS like launcher vehicle with 40 tubes for HERMES and Pantsir-S1 missiles could also be attached to the unit to greatly increase its capacity to engage large numbers of enemy aircraft and ground targets.
The full unification of Hermes and Pantsir-S1 missiles would require terminal guidance to be added, including MMW radar, semi active laser homing, IIR, command guidance, and also Glonass guidance options for ground targets and also MMW radar, SALH, and IIR as well as command guidance for aerial targets too.good news but its taking too long time ,2017?? like they are developing something brand new not an upgrade...
Command guidance being the simplest and cheapest, but other guidance options allowing greater capacity to deal with large numbers of enemy air threats.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
LINK
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Interesting is, that both systems are already in armament in regular units.Viktor wrote:Who knows. Army is still holding parallel testing of Pancir-S1 and TOR-M2.medo wrote:Could we expect tracked Pantsirs in army units in 2014?
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/brazil-builds-russian-defense-ties-210817079.html
Brazil decide to go ahead with with buying Pantsir-S1 and Igla-S and contract will be signed in 2014.BRASILIA, Oct 16 (Reuters) - Brazil is pushing ahead with a planned $1 billion purchase of anti-aircraft missile batteries from Russia in a deal that will cement a strategic defense partnership between the two BRICS nations, the Brazilian Defense Ministry said on Wednesday.
Brazilian officials said they expect to sign a contract by the middle of 2014 for short- to medium-range surface-to-air Pantsir S1 missile batteries and Igla-S shoulder-held missiles.
mack8- Posts : 1039
Points : 1093
Join date : 2013-08-02
TV report from KPB Tula:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuKIDNY0bd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuKIDNY0bd8
Rpg type 7v- Posts : 245
Points : 97
Join date : 2011-05-01
Hey hows that deal with Brazil going?? 
sepheronx- Posts : 8848
Points : 9108
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada
About as much news as Brazil purchasing new aircraft - No news. Brazil, being as big and wealthy as they are, have the worst track record of purchasing military goods next to Canada. They are continuously changing opinions. The Gepard was a deal that happened during 2011 and for used ones, and only recently are getting them. The talk for Pantsir was this year, chances are, in the next couple of years we will hear something.
On that note, a while ago, I heard they are wanting to use Brazil based equipment in the Pantsir and Yak-130, which I do not blame them if they were to decide to buy them. As it will help domestic industries.
Pantsir is a good system, but I prefer Tor more, and with modern guidance systems to the missiles, Tor could be much more effective being that it is a VLS. But there doesn't seem to be much love to the Tor and upgrades are going real slow. Pantsir is getting quite a bit of love due to orders from Russia and afar. Iraq wants them, and now possibly countries like Egypt does too.
On that note, a while ago, I heard they are wanting to use Brazil based equipment in the Pantsir and Yak-130, which I do not blame them if they were to decide to buy them. As it will help domestic industries.
Pantsir is a good system, but I prefer Tor more, and with modern guidance systems to the missiles, Tor could be much more effective being that it is a VLS. But there doesn't seem to be much love to the Tor and upgrades are going real slow. Pantsir is getting quite a bit of love due to orders from Russia and afar. Iraq wants them, and now possibly countries like Egypt does too.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
It's going.Rpg type 7v wrote:Hey hows that deal with Brazil going??
Are you trying to be a smartass or something?
Not working too well lol.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
Tula designers showed "Shell of C1" in Thailand
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/brazil-builds-russian-defense-ties-210817079.html
Brazil decide to go in buying. It takes time and Brazilian government expect to sign a contract in the middle of 2014.
Brazil decide to go in buying. It takes time and Brazilian government expect to sign a contract in the middle of 2014.
GarryB- Posts : 40546
Points : 41046
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
i agree but who knows we might see tor or something else in brazil!
That is possible too, with the new model TOR cleared for Russian service an export model might not be very far from production, but I rather suspect Pantsir-S1, with its guns and extended missile range might get the nod simply because it is also an excellent system that can be adapted to a range of roles including self defence with its guns.
Further development of the unified HERMES missile offering terminal homing seeker heads with a backup ground to ground role should further enhance its exportability.
calripson- Posts : 753
Points : 808
Join date : 2013-10-25
Any idea how many Pantsir to be procured in 2013 by Russian Ministry of Defense ? I thought Pantsir was supposed to protect S 400 sites but it looks like the number of Pantsir deployed is too low relative to S 400. Due to export success of Pantsir it appears that production is going heavily towards exports.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
That does not matter. There is no immediate danget to Russian airspace but from 2015 Russia will pop out modernized Pancir system. Anyway about 100 Pancir will be delivered by 2020.calripson wrote:Any idea how many Pantsir to be procured in 2013 by Russian Ministry of Defense ? I thought Pantsir was supposed to protect S 400 sites but it looks like the number of Pantsir deployed is too low relative to S 400. Due to export success of Pantsir it appears that production is going heavily towards exports.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
New Pancir-S1 deliveries
Russian troops ASD received six air defense systems "Carapace-S"
Russian troops ASD received six air defense systems "Carapace-S"
calripson- Posts : 753
Points : 808
Join date : 2013-10-25
6 new Pantsir units are being deployed with 1 new regiment of S 400 in the Moscow region. Where is the other new S 400 regiment going and will it also have associated Pantsir units ? Does each of the currently deployed S 400 regiments have Pantsir units connected with it ? 3 per battalion ? Seems too few.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
1. Yes it seems that all S-400 batteries will have associated Pancir-S1 units. When will that happen is a question on its own.calripson wrote:6 new Pantsir units are being deployed with 1 new regiment of S 400 in the Moscow region. Where is the other new S 400 regiment going and will it also have associated Pantsir units ? Does each of the currently deployed S 400 regiments have Pantsir units connected with it ? 3 per battalion ? Seems too few.
2. No. Now Russia has 5 batteries of Pancir-S1 and in several days time 7 regiments of S-400. (I think until the end of 2013 we will se no further Pancir-S1 deliveries)
3. When you look at it, Russia plans to have 56 batteries of S-400 up to 2020 (and after even more) and that makes 28 regiments and at the same time and up until 2020 it plans to have 100 Pancir-S1 which makes roughly 16-17 batteries so you see production of Pancir-S1 is not enough to cover all of S-400 unless you form a 4 x Pancir-S1 = 1 battery which is also
a possibility.
mack8- Posts : 1039
Points : 1093
Join date : 2013-08-02
5 batteries of Pantsir meaning there are 30 systems delivered so far? Thanks.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
Brasilians (10 people) arrived to Russia to asses the Pancir-S1 
29/11/13 TO ASSESS THE "SHELL" OF THE BRAZILIAN DELEGATION ARRIVES
29/11/13 TO ASSESS THE "SHELL" OF THE BRAZILIAN DELEGATION ARRIVES
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
GarryB- Posts : 40546
Points : 41046
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
AFAIK there are 6 armed vehicles per battery.5 batteries of Pantsir meaning there are 30 systems delivered so far? Thanks.
It is a flaw, but not actually critical as it would never be able to fire from the train, so whether it is transported in 2 or more pieces is only important when it comes to preparation and assembly time.so pantcir cant be rail transported in 1 piece ,but truck and SAM platform have to be separated?
huge flaw from logistics point of view.
The Truck mounted Pantsir-S1 is designed to operate on roads operationally so when it is being used whether it works from a train is irrelevant.
If it was defending a train yard then it would not be mounted on a train.
In terms of strategic mobility when time is not critical then train is a fine way to move them and splitting them up in multiple loads is not important... when time is critical it would likely go by air.
Tactical mobility would be by road with the same performance as the vehicles it is likely to be protecting.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
Russia Plans to Build 'UAV-Killers' Based on Pantsir-S Systems
MOSCOW, December 18 (RIA Novosti) – Russia is upgrading its short-range Pantsir-S air defense systems with an improved capability to intercept unmanned aerial vehicles, a Defense Ministry spokesman said Wednesday.
“The modernization of these unique systems aimed at increasing their effectiveness against UAVs has already started,” Col. Igor Klimov said.
The modernized Pantsir-S systems will also be adapted for deployment in harsh climate conditions of the Arctic, the official said.
“The extensive modernization program will be completed by 2015, and the Russian military will start receiving the new Pantsir-SM systems,” Klimov added.
Pantsir-S (SA-22 Greyhound) is a gun-missile system combining a wheeled vehicle mounting a fire-control radar and electro-optical sensor, two 30-mm cannon and up to 12 57E6 radio-command guided short-range missiles, and is designed to engage a variety of low-altitude, highly maneuverable targets.
Some 50 Pantsir-S systems are currently in service with the Russian air force, according to the Defense Ministry.
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131218/185699104/Russia-Plans-to-Build-UAV-Killers-Based-on-Pantsir-S-Systems.html
MOSCOW, December 18 (RIA Novosti) – Russia is upgrading its short-range Pantsir-S air defense systems with an improved capability to intercept unmanned aerial vehicles, a Defense Ministry spokesman said Wednesday.
“The modernization of these unique systems aimed at increasing their effectiveness against UAVs has already started,” Col. Igor Klimov said.
The modernized Pantsir-S systems will also be adapted for deployment in harsh climate conditions of the Arctic, the official said.
“The extensive modernization program will be completed by 2015, and the Russian military will start receiving the new Pantsir-SM systems,” Klimov added.
Pantsir-S (SA-22 Greyhound) is a gun-missile system combining a wheeled vehicle mounting a fire-control radar and electro-optical sensor, two 30-mm cannon and up to 12 57E6 radio-command guided short-range missiles, and is designed to engage a variety of low-altitude, highly maneuverable targets.
Some 50 Pantsir-S systems are currently in service with the Russian air force, according to the Defense Ministry.
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131218/185699104/Russia-Plans-to-Build-UAV-Killers-Based-on-Pantsir-S-Systems.html
flamming_python- Posts : 9547
Points : 9605
Join date : 2012-01-30
magnumcromagnon wrote:Russia Plans to Build 'UAV-Killers' Based on Pantsir-S Systems
MOSCOW, December 18 (RIA Novosti) – Russia is upgrading its short-range Pantsir-S air defense systems with an improved capability to intercept unmanned aerial vehicles, a Defense Ministry spokesman said Wednesday.
“The modernization of these unique systems aimed at increasing their effectiveness against UAVs has already started,” Col. Igor Klimov said.
The modernized Pantsir-S systems will also be adapted for deployment in harsh climate conditions of the Arctic, the official said.
“The extensive modernization program will be completed by 2015, and the Russian military will start receiving the new Pantsir-SM systems,” Klimov added.
Pantsir-S (SA-22 Greyhound) is a gun-missile system combining a wheeled vehicle mounting a fire-control radar and electro-optical sensor, two 30-mm cannon and up to 12 57E6 radio-command guided short-range missiles, and is designed to engage a variety of low-altitude, highly maneuverable targets.
Some 50 Pantsir-S systems are currently in service with the Russian air force, according to the Defense Ministry.
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131218/185699104/Russia-Plans-to-Build-UAV-Killers-Based-on-Pantsir-S-Systems.html
Should already be capable of easily taking out any UAV in existence.
A cheap anti-UAV missile maybe?
GarryB- Posts : 40546
Points : 41046
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Possibly a smaller lighter lower drag missile that is much cheaper and also with a smaller directional warhead.
As the nuclear capability of each side is reduced the number of actual targets diminishes to the point where the idea of targeting enemy missile bases and military platforms becomes an interesting idea.
taking ICBMs out of fixed silos and mounting them on trains that are modified to look identical to standard trains makes it much harder to find and hit effectively in those critical first 30 minutes... after hour T+2 then it wont matter because those ICBMs will have launched anyway.
The main problem with the old train mounted ICBMs was their enormous weight requiring special trains. with modern materials and propellent they will likely be able to use standard train carriages which makes them much easier to hide.
As the nuclear capability of each side is reduced the number of actual targets diminishes to the point where the idea of targeting enemy missile bases and military platforms becomes an interesting idea.
taking ICBMs out of fixed silos and mounting them on trains that are modified to look identical to standard trains makes it much harder to find and hit effectively in those critical first 30 minutes... after hour T+2 then it wont matter because those ICBMs will have launched anyway.
The main problem with the old train mounted ICBMs was their enormous weight requiring special trains. with modern materials and propellent they will likely be able to use standard train carriages which makes them much easier to hide.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
http://www.vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/0/arhprint/2309019
Good post, the REAL huge advantage of the Pantsir:
-Pantsir's missile costs a little more than 2 million rubles. Tor (9M330/9M331) : 8-9 million.
-Missiles like Barack and Aster-15 cost much more than Tor themselves.
-Supposedly a new hypersonic missile is being worked on to be used vs cruise missiles. Older missile (with bigger charge) will be used versus aircraft.
Good post, the REAL huge advantage of the Pantsir:
-Pantsir's missile costs a little more than 2 million rubles. Tor (9M330/9M331) : 8-9 million.
-Missiles like Barack and Aster-15 cost much more than Tor themselves.
-Supposedly a new hypersonic missile is being worked on to be used vs cruise missiles. Older missile (with bigger charge) will be used versus aircraft.