Russia and Turkey

If turkey wanted a war they would not be trying to talk to Russia and to cooperate... they could simply put up the "Russia is the aggressor" wall that the EU and US is currently sitting behind and that would be that.

This is like the peace process in Israel... if you want to let any dickhead with a hand gun or suicide belt on either side to stop the peace process that says more about your commitment to the peace process than anything else.

If you cut ties with Turkey over this the dick head wins... that is exactly what he wanted.

After suffering from the actions of other morons that blow up buses and kill at random to force others to their will it should be making Turkey and Russia realise they are better off working together... and for Eehnie... I would be happy to see the EU drop its anti Russia bullshit and get on side and condemn the terrorism too but we both know they are not interested... it was their terrorist... why would they complain?

They have no respect and no feeling for the lives of those they have decided are their enemies... hense Kiev can do what it likes to anyone branded pro russian, but albanians need to be saved from serbian (pro russian) oppression...

Turkey and Russia need to work together; this relationship is too important to jeaporadize.

And to all the talk about Erdogan dealing with ISIS, etc... seriously; who are any of us to moralize? Do you know how dirty international politics, intelligence agency work, etc... is?
I can guarantee you Russia does some unsavory dealings too with someone or the other.

flamming_python wrote:Turkey and Russia need to work together; this relationship is too important to jeaporadize.

And to all the talk about Erdogan dealing with ISIS, etc... seriously; who are any of us to moralize? Do you know how dirty international politics, intelligence agency work, etc... is?
I can guarantee you Russia does some unsavory dealings too with someone or the other.

It's only important because one of the partners has no other option but being a nuisance to the other.

Speaking of which:

http://militaryedge.org/articles/raytheon-awarded-53-million-tow-missiles-saudi-arabia-jordan/

Let's all agree to disagree, Turkey played their hand and they lost, this is them taking a haircut, but bringing something home.

KiloGolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:His name means goldnugget fvcknugget, wo...

fixed for you.

Goldnugget aka Goldstone/Goldstein etc...

Before you crucify me for anti-semitism. I mean this as a joke, although it really means Goldstein.

Al-Nusra Claims Responsibility For Murder Of Russian Ambassador, Warns Of More Attacks




The Jabhat Fatah al-Sham organization (formerly the al-Nusra Front) claimed to be responsible for Monday's murder of Russian Ambassador Andrey Karlov’s in Ankara. The terrorist group claimed responsibility via a letter which appeared on the Internet. The letter was written in Arabic.

In its statement, the group said “one of the heroes of the Jaish al-Fatah, Mert Altintas carried out the execution of Russian Ambassador Andrey Karlov in Ankara,” because the world remains silent to what is taking place in Aleppo, no support comes to the Muslims in the Levant and for the victory of the Syrian people.


Jaish al-Fatah wrote the name of Karlov’s killer in big letters as “Martry Mert Altintas.”


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-21/al-nusra-claims-responsibility-murder-russian-ambassador-warns-more-attacks

Nope they didn't claim responsibility.

GarryB wrote:If turkey wanted a war they would not be trying to talk to Russia and to cooperate... they could simply put up the "Russia is the aggressor" wall that the EU and US is currently sitting behind and that would be that.

This is like the peace process in Israel... if you want to let any dickhead with a hand gun or suicide belt on either side to stop the peace process that says more about your commitment to the peace process than anything else.

If you cut ties with Turkey over this the dick head wins... that is exactly what he wanted.

After suffering from the actions of other morons that blow up buses and kill at random to force others to their will it should be making Turkey and Russia realise they are better off working together... and for Eehnie... I would be happy to see the EU drop its anti Russia bullshit and get on side and condemn the terrorism too but we both know they are not interested... it was their terrorist... why would they complain?

They have no respect and no feeling for the lives of those they have decided are their enemies... hense Kiev can do what it likes to anyone branded pro russian, but albanians need to be saved from serbian (pro russian) oppression...

Turkey wants not a war. Turkey IS in a war. And like the killer said, they are diying in Syria, In Aleppo. Like the nuts of Ukraine, the nuts of Turkey want everyone else involved in their war to colonize the north of Syria and Irak. No-one else does.

Who do you think are the "Turkmen" militias of Syria? These militias are as many people as the entire Turkmen population in Syria before the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen_Brigades

Check the part of the leaders to see who is there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alparslan_%C3%87elik

Alparslan Çelik

Born 1982 (age 33–34)
Keban, Turkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keban

Allegiance Alperen Ocakları
Syrian Turkmen Brigades

Years of service 2014-2016

Rank Second-in-command

Unit Turkmen Coastal Division

Battles/wars Syrian civil war
Latakia offensive (2015–2016)
2015 Russian Sukhoi Su-24 shootdown

This is the reality. Lots of paramilitary Turks are fighting in Syria, even some military units. And they are losing. And they are diying.

Putin has been clear about their future.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Nope they didn't claim responsibility.

This guy is so "I SWEAR IT WASNT US, ANYONE BUT US".

Putin expresses condolences to Erdogan over terrorist attack in Istanbul



Russian President Vladimir Putin Sunday expressed condolences to his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan over the deadly terrorist attack in Istanbul, according to Kremlin press service, Sputnik reported.

He added that Russia was and would remain Turkey's ally in the fight against this evil.

"It is hard to imagine a more cynical crime than the murder of innocent civilians in the midst of New Year's holiday. But the terrorists are absolutely alien to the concept of human morality. Our common duty is to respond decisively to the terrorist aggression," Putin said.

http://en.trend.az/world/turkey/2704878.html

flamming_python wrote:Turkey and Russia need to work together; this relationship is too important to jeaporadize.

Turkey resembles a failed state, fast approaching the Ukropian example. Russia can do better than that. My gut feeling is that Russia is exploiting Erdogan for their own gain, they're not in too deep. They know what they're dealing with and use Turkey in order to help the situation in Syria.

Turkey is not Moldavia or Belarus to be used.

Turkey had a unique strategic geography and great economy.

The Ottoman wrote:Turkey is not Moldavia or Belarus to be used.

Turkey had a unique strategic geography.

Oh ye, very unique. You also have crippled military, madman for president, 25 million hungry people and neverending war for last 40 years on your own soil.

Son... Napoleon used you... British Empire used you... German Kaizer used you... US used and is using you and will keep using you... even Swedish Empire used you for own bidding back in time lol...

I am not sure are you Turks even aware how small you are on global world scale...

Militarov wrote:

The Ottoman wrote:Turkey is not Moldavia or Belarus to be used.

Turkey had a unique strategic geography.

Oh ye, very unique. You also have crippled military, madman for president, 25 million hungry people and neverending war for last 40 years on your own soil.

Son... Napoleon used you... British Empire used you... German Kaizer used you... US used and is using you and will keep using you... even Swedish Empire used you for own bidding back in time lol...

I am not sure are you Turks even aware how small you are on global world scale...

Frustrated about Istanbul?

Make a move and try to get it back, you will see how 'crippled' our militairy is.

At least the Turkish gouvernment didn't sell their own people and land to the Goldman Sachs-mafia like Greece did.

Greece is a failed state without any future.

The Ottoman wrote:

Militarov wrote:

The Ottoman wrote:Turkey is not Moldavia or Belarus to be used.

Turkey had a unique strategic geography.

Oh ye, very unique. You also have crippled military, madman for president, 25 million hungry people and neverending war for last 40 years on your own soil.

Son... Napoleon used you... British Empire used you... German Kaizer used you... US used and is using you and will keep using you... even Swedish Empire used you for own bidding back in time lol...

I am not sure are you Turks even aware how small you are on global world scale...

Frustrated about Istanbul?

Make a move and try to get it back, you will see how 'crippled' our militairy is.

At least the Turkish gouvernment didn't sell their own people and land to the Goldman Sachs-mafia like Greece did.

Greece is a failed state without any future.

What do i have to do with Constantinople exactly? Also.. i am not Greek, why would i care if Greece is "failed state".

O yeah... we saw how Turkish military works last 2 weeks in Al Bab lol

What do i have to do with Constantinople exactly? Also.. i am not Greek, why would i care if Greece is "failed state".

O yeah... we saw how Turkish military works last 2 weeks in Al Bab lol

LoL. I saw you for a Greek, pardon me.

The reason why our operation in Al Bab is slowly is because of our lame allies (FSA) who are shitting in their pants and because our fight against terrorism at multiple fronts and against multiple enemies (PKK, ISIS, FETO).

There is no country in the world which could survive 3 strong terror-networks and a coup in 1 year, let alone 30 years like Turkey.

There was 1 terror attack in France and 1 in Belgium last year and the whole nation was upset, marshall law was installed, panic etc.

Turkey gets a terror attack every week and still stay strong.

Turkey resembles a failed state, fast approaching the Ukropian example. Russia can do better than that. My gut feeling is that Russia is exploiting Erdogan for their own gain, they're not in too deep. They know what they're dealing with and use Turkey in order to help the situation in Syria.

What are you talking about?

Turkey is no where near a failed state, and nothing like the fuck up that the Ukraine is.

Of course Russia can find other friends but there is a clear mutual benefit in this situation for both Russia and for Turkey.

Cooperation will help both countries and solve some very real problems for both countries and the countries in the region.

Cooperation with China or Fiji wont effect the situation in Syria or Turkey, the only solution is dialog and cooperation between Turkey, Syria, Russia, Iran and also Iraq and anyone else who could be useful.

Russia could be stupid and turn its back on Turkey for a million different silly reasons and Turkey could do the same but that solves nothing.

Talking and cooperating lets them work through problems with real solutions.

Unlike the US Russia has little real relationships with the PKK so there is no real barrier for cooperating between Turkey and Russia. Considering Turkey controls the straights that lead out of the Black Sea it makes sense to try to achieve good relations anyway even if there was no situation in Syria.

By cooperating Turkey can have a say and some input as to the solutions Russia and Syria try to implement in their attempts to deal with ISIS and the so called opposition.

Being stubborn gives them nothing and no seat at the table.

Together Syria and Turkey and Russia can get a solution that Syria and Russia probably could not get on their own...

GarryB wrote:

Turkey resembles a failed state, fast approaching the Ukropian example. Russia can do better than that. My gut feeling is that Russia is exploiting Erdogan for their own gain, they're not in too deep. They know what they're dealing with and use Turkey in order to help the situation in Syria.

What are you talking about?

Turkey is no where near a failed state, and nothing like the fuck up that the Ukraine is.

Of course Russia can find other friends but there is a clear mutual benefit in this situation for both Russia and for Turkey.

Cooperation will help both countries and solve some very real problems for both countries and the countries in the region.

Cooperation with China or Fiji wont effect the situation in Syria or Turkey, the only solution is dialog and cooperation between Turkey, Syria, Russia, Iran and also Iraq and anyone else who could be useful.

Russia could be stupid and turn its back on Turkey for a million different silly reasons and Turkey could do the same but that solves nothing.

Talking and cooperating lets them work through problems with real solutions.

Unlike the US Russia has little real relationships with the PKK so there is no real barrier for cooperating between Turkey and Russia. Considering Turkey controls the straights that lead out of the Black Sea it makes sense to try to achieve good relations anyway even if there was no situation in Syria.

By cooperating Turkey can have a say and some input as to the solutions Russia and Syria try to implement in their attempts to deal with ISIS and the so called opposition.

Being stubborn gives them nothing and no seat at the table.

Together Syria and Turkey and Russia can get a solution that Syria and Russia probably could not get on their own...

The comment is right. Turkey entered in a deep hole of war, reaching a level of saturation where is not clear if can advance more, like we see in Al Bab.

At this point Turkey can not dominate the Kurds without severe massacres that are unacceptable today.

GarryB wrote:

Turkey resembles a failed state, fast approaching the Ukropian example. Russia can do better than that. My gut feeling is that Russia is exploiting Erdogan for their own gain, they're not in too deep. They know what they're dealing with and use Turkey in order to help the situation in Syria.

What are you talking about?

Turkey is no where near a failed state, and nothing like the fuck up that the Ukraine is.

Of course Russia can find other friends but there is a clear mutual benefit in this situation for both Russia and for Turkey.

Cooperation will help both countries and solve some very real problems for both countries and the countries in the region.

Cooperation with China or Fiji wont effect the situation in Syria or Turkey, the only solution is dialog and cooperation between Turkey, Syria, Russia, Iran and also Iraq and anyone else who could be useful.

Russia could be stupid and turn its back on Turkey for a million different silly reasons and Turkey could do the same but that solves nothing.

Talking and cooperating lets them work through problems with real solutions.

Unlike the US Russia has little real relationships with the PKK so there is no real barrier for cooperating between Turkey and Russia. Considering Turkey controls the straights that lead out of the Black Sea it makes sense to try to achieve good relations anyway even if there was no situation in Syria.

By cooperating Turkey can have a say and some input as to the solutions Russia and Syria try to implement in their attempts to deal with ISIS and the so called opposition.

Being stubborn gives them nothing and no seat at the table.

Together Syria and Turkey and Russia can get a solution that Syria and Russia probably could not get on their own...

I said they're fast approaching Ukropia as a failed state. Already it is a country with one major insurgency and one huge terrorist problem.
Russia is just making their war easier in Syria. That's the scope of getting Erdoss under their wing (for as long as he may reign).

Well I disagree. The Ukraine is screwed... and mainly screwed by itself for believing the west would care enough about them to "save" them.

Look at the fracking protests in the US... these normal rural Americans who think America is a force for good in the world are learning what big business does to the little people in countries all around the world and has been doing for the last 3 hundred years or more.

Turkey has internal and external enemies, but then so does Russia and China and India and the US... that path does not necessarily lead to an EU utopia where Brussels solves all problems and keeps the Ruskies out.

The comparison in my opinion is very odd as Turkey is nothing like the Ukraine.

I am sure the Russians can help with advice and equipment for Turkey in dealing with fanatical insurgents... they have some experience in that area too.

Of course good relations with the US would mean no criticism no matter what they do... they could build walls around the PKK areas and cut off supplies and limit trade like in Israel and there would be no criticism from the BBC or CNN, but without western political shiny protection they could detain a PKK member on the street and be brow beaten as the worst regime in europe since the nazis in 1945... (as distinct from the nazis in Kiev right now... who can burn people alive as they like because they are bastards but they are our bastards...)

GarryB wrote:Well I disagree.

Just a day ago there was another terrorist attack at Smyrma (tur. Izmir).
They've created a monster which is already out of control, if Ukraine is not to your taste you can pick Pakistan as a fitting example.

GarryB wrote:Well I disagree. The Ukraine is screwed... and mainly screwed by itself for believing the west would care enough about them to "save" them.

Look at the fracking protests in the US... these normal rural Americans who think America is a force for good in the world are learning what big business does to the little people in countries all around the world and has been doing for the last 3 hundred years or more.

Turkey has internal and external enemies, but then so does Russia and China and India and the US... that path does not necessarily lead to an EU utopia where Brussels solves all problems and keeps the Ruskies out.

The comparison in my opinion is very odd as Turkey is nothing like the Ukraine.

I am sure the Russians can help with advice and equipment for Turkey in dealing with fanatical insurgents... they have some experience in that area too.

Of course good relations with the US would mean no criticism no matter what they do... they could build walls around the PKK areas and cut off supplies and limit trade like in Israel and there would be no criticism from the BBC or CNN, but without western political shiny protection they could detain a PKK member on the street and be brow beaten as the worst regime in europe since the nazis in 1945... (as distinct from the nazis in Kiev right now... who can burn people alive as they like because they are bastards but they are our bastards...)

Well I see you very out of touch comparing the "internal problems" that Turkey has, with the internal problems of the US, Russia and China. And I would say the same with the externals.

There are differences of course, but to compare Turkey with Ukraine is far more accurate. Turkey is living today one of the worst "internal" wars in the world. I'm a little surprised that you see not it.

GarryB wrote:I don't care. This is about getting Russian gas to European customers in a way that will bypass the Ukraine and Baltic.

https://sputniknews.com/business/201701071049354281-russia-gazprom-record-europe/

Record Volume of Gas to Europe Via Nord Stream © Sputnik/ Grigoriy Sisoev

BUSINESS 16:10 07.01.2017(updated 20:09 07.01.2017) Get short URL5922111 Russian energy giant Gazprom said Saturday it had reached the record 165.2 million cubic meters volume of daily gas supply to Europe via Nord Stream pipeline. © SPUTNIK/ SERGEY GUNEEV Nord Stream 2 European Partners Explain Why They Need the Project MOSCOW (Sputnik) –

On Monday, Gazprom said it had delivered a record volume of 160 million cubic meters of natural gas via the Nord Stream pipeline on New Year’s Day, which showed the pipeline’s high demand on the European market and "the importance and relevance of constructing Nord Stream 2." "In the light of increased demand for gas in Europe, we had been recording the new record volume of gas supply via Nord Stream pipeline, 165.2 million cubic meters per a day, for three consecutive days — January 4-6," the company said in statement. Russia is engaged in constructing the Nord Stream 2 pipeline that aims to deliver 55 billion cubic meters of Russian natural gas a year to the European Union across the Baltic Sea to Germany, bypassing Ukraine. The pipeline is planned for 2018. Gazprom has a shareholder agreement to extend the existing Nord Stream with partner European energy firms.

Obviously Russia will not go by Poland or Turkey to avoid Ukraine. Needs not it.

SU 35 sighted around Al Bab.

Obviously Russia will not go by Poland or Turkey to avoid Ukraine. Needs not it.

Having alternative routes for gas to europe makes sense for Russia...

KoTeMoRe wrote:SU 35 sighted around Al Bab.

Later denied. It was a F-16.