Turkey relations with US and NATO

NATO forces foil hijacking of Turkish ship by Somali pirates
RIA Novosti

14/08/200911:45

ANKARA, August 14 (RIA Novosti) - NATO forces on Friday thwarted an attempt by Somali pirates to hijack a Turkish merchant vessel in the Gulf of Aden, Turkish maritime authorities said.

The initial report on the attempted hijack of the Elgiznur Cebi, with 19 crew members on board, was received by a Turkish frigate, the Gediz, which was patrolling the area.

A NATO helicopter then came to the aid of the vessel and forced the pirates away from the ship.

"A hijacking attempt on the Turkish-flagged Egiznur Cebi, which left the Ukrainian port of Yuzhny with a shipment of iron casts heading for the Saudi Arabian port of al Damman, occurred at 5:45 a.m. local time [GMT 02]," a press release read.

The statement did not say which warship the NATO helicopter had come from.

Around 35 warships from the navies of 16 countries are currently deployed off Somalia's coast to counter frequent pirate attacks on key trade routes.

The Russian Navy joined international anti-piracy efforts off Somali coast in October 2008.

According to the United Nations, Somali pirates collected $150 million in ransom payments from ship owners last year, while overall losses from piracy were estimated at $13-16 billion, including the soaring cost of insurance and protection for vessels, as well as sending ships on longer routes to avoid high-risk areas.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/08/mil-090814-rianovosti01.htm

Iran has criticized Turkey for its decision to host NATO missile defense elements on its soil, the Mehr News Agency reported on Saturday.

Maj. General Yahya Safavi, former commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps, said Turkey was on the wrong track.

Turkey’s decision is a “strategic mistake” that would send a clear message both to Iran and Russia, “but more to Iran,” he said.

He did not say what the message was.

In September, Turkey agreed to host an early warning radar in the southeast of the country as part of NATO's missile defense system.

The system is capable of countering ballistic missile threats from Iran.

http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111008/167496294.html

Russian Patriot wrote:

.....ballistic missile threats from Iran.

Ha ha ha! If Iran had a ballistic missile system worth being afraid of, the Israeli's would have blown it up long ago.

Iran doesn't really have any military gear. No Air Force. No Navy. What they call a Navy wouldn't even match a Coast Guard for normal countries.


Iran's always just been a pawn played by other countries as their resources are sucked out. Sure America gave them some F-14's....can't fly them now because they can't get parts. And Russia's sold them some old outdated junk. China's sold them some old outdated junk......and Chinese ships were recently seized before they got to Iran with NEW military gear and it was rushed off to some countries for "testing" to see what the Chinese have for capability. Boy the chinese were mad about that.

Iran has no military threat. Iran can't build anything on their own to be afraid of. Key word...on their own.

I don't agree.

Iran is not the global power or the global threat that the US and Israel try to paint it as, but it is certainly a regional power that shouldn't be trifled with.
Iraq had a go in the early 1980s and pretty much lost that one.
In regional terms the Iraqis had a powerful armed force and walked over Kuwaite and I would think if their mercenaries deserted them the Saudis would be in a bit of trouble too... despite all their nice shiny weaponry.

Having said all that the US treatment of Iran is predictable bully boy tactics... Iran had the guts to stand up to the west and kick the US out... like Cuba did, and the result is that the bully is making all his friends hate them, or at least not trade baseball cards with them.

NATO Anti-Missile Radar in Turkey Put into Operation

A NATO missile defense radar deployed in Turkey has been put into operation, CNN quoted a Turkish foreign ministry spokesman as saying.

The X-band AN/TPY-2 early warning radar is part of the THAAD system designed to intercept medium-range missiles at very high altitudes. It is located at a military base in the eastern province of Malatya, some 400 miles southeast of the capital Ankara, and is manned by both Turkish and U.S. personnel, the spokesman said.

He did not specify when the radar was put into operation. Earlier this month, Turkish daily Hurriyet quoted sources as saying it became operational on January 1.

Turkey is among the five countries that agreed to host parts of a U.S.-European missile defense shield. The others are Portugal, Poland, Romania and Spain.

Ankara and Washington have said the radar will help provide early warning of missile threats coming from outside Europe.

NATO members agreed to install a missile shield over Europe to protect against ballistic missiles launched by so-called rogue states, for example Iran and North Korea, at a summit in Lisbon, Portugal, in 2010.

Russia has strongly criticized NATO’s reluctance to provide written, legally binding guarantees that its European missile shield will not be directed against Moscow. President Dmitry Medvedev ordered in Novemebr a series of measures designed to strengthen the country’s missile defense capabilities in response to NATO’s shield, including the deployment of Iskander missiles in Russia's exclave of Kaliningrad on the border with Poland.

http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120117/170796159.html

ANKARA, November 26 (RIA Novosti) – NATO officials will start surveying sites along the Turkey-Syria border on Tuesday for possible deployment of Patriot air defense systems, the Turkish General Staff said in a statement.

The NATO delegation includes 30 experts from the United States, Germany and the Netherlands, all of whom have Patriots in their arsenals.

The Turkish General Staff said that the Patriot missile systems will not be used to establish a no-fly zone or to conduct offensive operations, but only “against an air or missile threat from Syria,” the Hurriyet daily said, citing the statement.

“The regions the Patriot systems would be deployed to and the number of foreign personnel that will be assigned to them will be be based on the NATO delegation’s site-survey,” the statement said.

Turkey, a NATO member, has requested the deployment of Patriot missiles on its territory, saying the anti-missile system is necessary to protect its 900-km border with conflict-torn Syria.

Among the most possible sites for the Patriot deployment are Diyarbakir, Urfa and Malatya in southeastern Turkey. Hurriyet said up to 300 military personnel will be needed to service the Patriot batteries.

Syria has condemned the Patriot missile plan in Turkey as “another act of provocation.” Russia has warned that the move could trigger a regional crisis. NATO maintained that the missiles would be placed for defensive purposes only.

US Patriot surface-to-air missiles were last deployed to Turkey in 1991 and 2003, during the two Gulf Wars, to protect the country from Saddam Hussein’s Scud missiles.

Turkey has fired artilllery salvos across its border with Syria several times in recent weeks in retaliation for Syrian shelling, which killed five Turkish civilians in October. It has also provided shelter to refugees fleeing the violence in Syria and has been one of President Bashar al-Assad’s harshest critics during the almost 17-month revolt against his rule.

Tensions between Turkey and Syria flared dangerously this summer after Damascus shot down a Turkish fighter that had violated its airspace. Turkey threatened retaliation if there was any repeat of the incident, although it admitted the plane had mistakenly strayed slightly into Syria.

http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121126/177743649.html

The first component of an illegal no fly zone over Syria?

NATO apparently has approved PAC-3 deployment. Germany and the Netherlands will provide the batteries.

With the level of foreign intervention in Syria and now the US Congress banning the use of US taxpayers money with contracts with the Russian export company, perhaps Russia needs to start offering Iran and Syria more substantial material.

If the US has the right to not buy Russian weapons then Russia has the right to sell defensive weapons to Iran... if you want to play carrot and stick but not offer a carrot then you should not have high hopes for the results of that sort of training.

If the US congress wants to wield the stick Russia can too.

I've already said that Russia is well within its legal right to sell systems like the S-300PMU-2 to Iran...heavy strategic SAMs aren't on the UN Arms Control Register, which is what is used as reference when the UN bans arms sales to a given state. Makes sense from the UN's standpoint, they're trying to 1) ban things like MANPADS' that could be transferred or otherwise end up in the hands of terrorists, and 2) ban the sale of things like tanks that can be used to plow over civillians.

With the appearance of JY-27, JYL-1 and Type 120 radar sets in Syria, it would appear that Russia may have fallen behind China in the effort to supply systems to Syria that could make NATO/the UN think twice about military action. That being said, Syria has a Russian/Soviet-based IADS with predominately Soviet-era kit, and Russia is making inroads with the sale of systems like Pantsyr and the Buk-M2E. But the import of modern Chinese rather than Russian advanced radars makes me think that Syria might be considering Chinese SAM systems like the HQ-9 over the more expensive Russian alternates like Favorit.

Congress banned deals with Rosoboronexpor/Rusarm? News to me. Pointless law anyway, given the "buy Uhmerican" lobby all over the place. It's almost treated as state treason when a non-American product is purchased for the Armed Forces. Keeping voters happy is more important than getting the best kit available for the military. That being said I for one wouldn't mind dumping Patriot for the S-400, but I believe that falls under the "no chance in hell" category even if Congress OK'd it. Don't think Putin would ever go for that one!

So, is Congress going to heavily criticize China over the radar sales?

Of course not. That would make too much sense, wouldn't it? The DoD and the rest of the government are trying to justify China as the "next big threat", when in actuality the threat of armed conflict between the US and the PRC is ridiculously low. But this would seem like a great time to point to China as the bad guy, right? On the other hand, the radars aren't useful against insurgents or rebels unless you want to use them to drive over people.

The really interesting thing in all of this is that there was no mention anywhere of the radar sales until they were located in imagery and a Type 120 was seen on one of the radar sites that anti-Assad guys captured.

Of course not. That would make too much sense, wouldn't it? The DoD and the rest of the government are trying to justify China as the "next big threat", when in actuality the threat of armed conflict between the US and the PRC is ridiculously low. But this would seem like a great time to point to China as the bad guy, right? On the other hand, the radars aren't useful against insurgents or rebels unless you want to use them to drive over people.

Well US politicians like to play the fear card, but in the case of China despite the fact that they are zero threat to the US the US politicians have the other problem that China is actually an economic threat to the US.

If the US managed to annoy China off to the point of armed conflict the Chinese could simply demand the US pay China all of the US debt that China has bought and make the US collapse economically.

The reality is that the Chinese own so much US debt they would have quite a few problems themselves in terms of economics... like it or not the Chinese have hitched their wagon to the US good ship lollypop so if the Lollypop sinks the Chinese will suffer too.

I personally am a bit surprised that the US has not tried the obvious of demonising China and taking the obvious steps of freezing their "assets" to try to nullify a lot of US debt held by China... now that would be amusing.

Underhanded, sure, but on the same level as reducing taxes for rich people and of course printing more money...

Like the title says...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/29/us-turkey-erdogan-idUSBREA3S0A120140429

This seems like it could be a watershed in Turkish-US ties, with the US already clearly not 100% comfortable with Erdogan.
The US has obviously been cultivating Gulen, so it is rather hard to see them complying...
Not out of loyalty, but because they would lose their prime lever in Turkey (with old school Kemalists also sidelined).
On the other hand, if they don't comply, Erdogan may go ahead and purge the Gulenists anyways...
But either way, the relationship with Erdogan seems likely to head down a Saddam Hussein type path.

If US-Turkish relations do go further down-hill,
that will probably have repurcussions in Syria, Iraq/Kurdistan, Muslim Brotherhood in rest of Arab world, etc.
If Turkey continued escalating in Syria, possibly "going too far"/ not staying within "agreed upon bounds",
would the US and Saudis end their backing of the Syrian civil war if it looked no longer within it's control?
Would Turkey disengage from/ impede the NATO-GCC Syrian "project", and refocus it's energies elsewhere in the region?

In recent days, Turkey and its government has resisted NATO and the West. Their leader recently (supposedly) stated that he doesn't want to arm the Kurds, which created a backlash in the West. Opinions anyone?

 - This can also serve as a news section on the matter.

As long this scum Erdogan is dictating around, ordering own turkish army to bomb turkish soil and people to blame Assad for it like last year and this year and the sarin gas bombing with Turkish help, they will not go away of being the whore of USA, kill the pimp and the bitches will run.

Werewolf wrote:As long this scum Erdogan is dictating around, ordering own turkish army to bomb turkish soil and people to blame Assad for it like last year and this year and the sarin gas bombing with Turkish help, they will not go away of being the whore of USA, kill the pimp and the bitches will run.

He seems to be one of those who are slowing moving away... Western leaders call on him to fight ISIS, he agrees, just to never do it anyway. The West tells him to support the Kurds, he simply refuses... Yeah, he might still be a puppet, but at least there is a little Independence there. I think that eventually Turkey will either leave NATO, or get kicked out. - That has been a hot rumor now that he won't take a stand against ISIS. 

Not to say he is a good leader... 

Just look at history, Turkey has always been independent and they will be again. Even their MIC is growing independent of NATO, whom they've relied on for years.

 - Not only does he not want to arm the Kurds, he is preventing the US from doing so!

Mike E wrote:

Werewolf wrote:As long this scum Erdogan is dictating around, ordering own turkish army to bomb turkish soil and people to blame Assad for it like last year and this year and the sarin gas bombing with Turkish help, they will not go away of being the whore of USA, kill the pimp and the bitches will run.

He seems to be one of those who are slowing moving away... Western leaders call on him to fight ISIS, he agrees, just to never do it anyway. The West tells him to support the Kurds, he simply refuses... Yeah, he might still be a puppet, but at least there is a little Independence there. I think that eventually Turkey will either leave NATO, or get kicked out. - That has been a hot rumor now that he won't take a stand against ISIS. 

Not to say he is a good leader... 

Just look at history, Turkey has always been independent and they will be again. Even their MIC is growing independent of NATO, whom they've relied on for years.

 - Not only does he not want to arm the Kurds, he is preventing the US from doing so!

They will not be kicked out nor will Turkey leave. If you remember Turkey was nr. 1 country used for American nukes against Soviet Union/Russia. If there is even a single word of "turkey leaving NATO" there will be interior regime change, period.

Not going to disagree, but much more of that crap in Turkey and the people will respond. Don't forget that Turkey doesn't have great relations with much of Europe and the UN, they are also constantly rejected membership into the EU. I doubt the US still would use Turkey as a nuclear "base", for crying out loud, they aren't letting the US use a single airbase! - These events by themselves don't mean much, but as they grow in number over time, something will inevitably happen.

Mike E wrote:Not going to disagree, but much more of that crap in Turkey and the people will respond. Don't forget that Turkey doesn't have great relations with much of Europe and the UN, they are also constantly rejected membership into the EU. I doubt the US still would use Turkey as a nuclear "base", for crying out loud, they aren't letting the US use a single airbase! - These events by themselves don't mean much, but as they grow in number over time, something will inevitably happen.

Change one puppet for another and they will get access to everything.

People in masses are just like sheep herds. The sheep are bleating but they still follow the shephard.

That can only last for so long...Keep on buying new puppets, and the people will start to notice (as in the US).

Turkey will be disintegrated by its allies (USA and Britain). Mark my word..

George1 wrote:Turkey will be disintegrated by its allies (USA and Britain). Mark my word..

Thank you... I agree, it is inevitable and I don't think the West really values Turkey anymore in spite of recent events.

Turkey is being used by the west... we want to base jupiter missiles there so you can join NATO, but you are not white enough to join the EU...

ie we will make you part of the front line for WWIII but you can join our economic and political group too.

Of course Turkey wont support the Kurds... just like the UK wouldn't support the IRA.

GarryB wrote:Turkey is being used by the west... we want to base jupiter missiles there so you can join NATO, but you are not white enough to join the EU...

ie we will make you part of the front line for WWIII but you can join our economic and political group too.

Of course Turkey wont support the Kurds... just like the UK wouldn't support the IRA.

Sure the are, but will it remain that way?

That's the thing... They are a part of NATO, meaning that have to live up to certain standards, but they aren't allowed into the EU!

There is a huge difference between the groups. Did NATO support the IRA too?