Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

April 1st.

Those vehicles have nothing to do with Boomerang.

Almost fell for it. Vehicle is Terrex ICV.

For a second there I thought "Nooo it is hideous"....

TR1 wrote:April 1st.

Those vehicles have nothing to do with Boomerang.

Is George1 trying to fool us, or was he the fool - that's the real q

People need to remember that the Kurganets is a modular platform. Just because now it only has a 30mm gun doesn't mean that in the future something like the BMP-3 will be designed from it. Also i would like to point out that video of the Armata platform, where it was later found that they were using a T-72ish turret and a boxy wooden frame on top to protect the electronics(probably just a prototyping test bed). I doubt the Kurganets turret actually looks boxy, they are just using misinformation.

Well we know exactly what Kurganets turret looks like, right now at least- the 30mm "Epoha-lite" that has been seen in great detail.


I have been thinking about Kurganets weight and the 25 ton limit. Aside from the fact that it was a rough "weight class" that might be missed by 10-15% at the very least, I suspect the turret might not be part of the weight equation.
That or the modular screens are left out. Otherwise I have a hard time believing performance could be met within that weight limit. Everyone else is going higher for their new IFVs.
Base chassis might be around 25 tons, not the actual IFV. Would not be surprised if the latter pushes 30 tons or more.

Also very curious about the engine choice. Kinda the missing link in the discussion of the vehicle.

http://i60.fastpic.ru/big/2015/0403/27/bf389e83e01fe00d7a007de63f450f27.jpg

The APC variant, as I suspected I think it has the small machine gun turret.

https://i.imgur.com/8tXfIe0.jpg

Hmmm. Not so gigantic from this angle.

http://s01.geekpic.net/dm-7FKKQ2.png

And Boomerang.

This APC turret is quite big for RWS with machine gun only.

medo wrote:This APC turret is quite big for RWS with machine gun only.

Likely bustle storage for ammo only for crew protection.

APS

http://sg.uploads.ru/hu1nf.png

Interesting. Looks like the combat taxi APC Kurganets version does not have APS.

TR1 wrote:http://sg.uploads.ru/hu1nf.png

Interesting. Looks like the combat taxi APC Kurganets version does not have APS.

Well it does not really need it.

So, which one has the Epoha turret with 30 mm gun? The AP or the IFV?

By examining the photos I am inclined to say that the 30 mm is on the APC while the IFV has a bigger gun (45mm or 57 mm). But I could be wrong.

The thing with the gun protruding is the 30mm Epoha-"lite".

There won't be any 45mm or whatever larger guns at this parade.

Base chassis might be around 25 tons, not the actual IFV. Would not be surprised if the latter pushes 30 tons or more.

The armata chassis is described as a 50 ton class chassis yet descriptions included vehicles in the vehicle family from 50 to 65 tons in weight.... therefore boomerang and kurganets being 25 ton class vehicles should have weights in the 25-35 ton range at least.

Well we know exactly what Kurganets turret looks like, right now at least- the 30mm "Epoha-lite" that has been seen in great detail.

But is that the real intended weapon or a place holder till something else is ready?

The APC variant, as I suspected I think it has the small machine gun turret.

How can you tell from that photo? It could be a 23mm calibre version of the KPV HMG (KPB) for all we know.

Hmmm. Not so gigantic from this angle.

With that red flag and no skirt armour it actually looks a lot like a few Chinese vehicles...

This APC turret is quite big for RWS with machine gun only.

It probably includes all sorts of sensors and optics and other systems as well as armament.

Interesting. Looks like the combat taxi APC Kurganets version does not have APS.

The entire upper hull is covered with a tarp... how can you claim there is no APS?

Note these vehicles seem to be bare metal with no Nakidka type coverage so we are clearly not looking at serial production vehicles so any speculation on what we see from these photos is limited... or are you open to the claim that the T-34 will reenter service soon... it is leading the column afterall...

Well it does not really need it.

I would say it does need protection from long range ATGMs and HEAT charges on the battlefield.

So, which one has the Epoha turret with 30 mm gun? The AP or the IFV?

APC.

Not as big as it seemed on the first leaked photos, but still taller than a T-90

http://uploads.ru/38bfu.png

Cyberspec wrote:Not as big as it seemed on the first leaked photos, but still taller than a T-90

http://uploads.ru/38bfu.png

So should be not higher than Armata also around 2.6m.

So there's talk that the 57mm rounds were turned down because of their size, if that's true than that's a shame, though keep in mind the same people claiming this also claimed the modernized AEK would beat the AK-12 hands down because of their 'inside sources'.

Likely future IFV's and APC's will likely see 30mm caliber overdue it's stay, at least until the true Epoch turret is fully developed, which they'll likely have trials between modern fully developed 45mm and 57mm rounds to see which larger caliber will succeed the 30mm caliber that's long in-the-tooth.

...Then again 57mm rounds may actually be brought in to service as a cost-effective 57mm cannon SHORAD.

magnumcromagnon wrote:So there's talk that the 57mm rounds were turned down because of their size, if that's true than that's a shame, though keep in mind the same people claiming this also claimed the modernized AEK would beat the AK-12 hands down because of their 'inside sources'.

Likely future IFV's and APC's will likely see 30mm caliber overdue it's stay, at least until the true Epoch turret is fully developed, which they'll likely have trials between modern fully developed 45mm and 57mm rounds to see which larger caliber will succeed the 30mm caliber that's long in-the-tooth.

...Then again 57mm rounds may actually be brought in to service as a cost-effective 57mm cannon SHORAD.

57mm is not finished, they will use it when it is finished.

Werewolf wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:Not as big as it seemed on the first leaked photos, but still taller than a T-90

http://uploads.ru/38bfu.png

So should be not higher than Armata also around 2.6m.

I do not think we should be worried about the height of Kurganets, the hull is only slightly taller than the BMP-3 hull, and judging by that photo the hull is still lower than the T-90. I think that when we get some good frontal and side comparison photos I think we shall find the total area visible to be quite favorable and the the ratio of armored area to unarmored/sensor/turret to be quite excellent.

All in all, the excellent tradition of low profile vehicles will continue for the Russian Army.

^ Yes. I believe they will try to keep the machines as low profile (and light) as possible but with all round improvement over the vehicles these will replace in due time.

So there's talk that the 57mm rounds were turned down because of their size, if that's true than that's a shame, though keep in mind the same people claiming this also claimed the modernized AEK would beat the AK-12 hands down because of their 'inside sources'.

the 57mm shells are huge, but the projectiles are huge too which makes guided shells possible... and I would say a single guided shell that can hit point targets out to 16km (which was the range given for the naval gun version) with guided shells would be more valuable than a small calibre that can reach a quarter of that distance with much lighter projectiles.

Equally, the new turret for the PT-76 used pretty standard HE and AP rounds as standard so that turret has had rather more development time than the rounds the gun fires... there is enormous growth potential with that calibre, including vastly more powerful HE rounds and also APFSDS rounds too, in addition to the guided shells.

Based on the performance of western 40mm rounds the 57mm round should be able to penetrate 200mm of armour at 2km with an APFSDS round. More importantly a 50mm armour penetrating round with a HE charge would be rather more effective against most semi armoured targets like light vehicles and bunkers... APHE are rather more effective than pure HE as an explosion inside a vehicle is always more effective.

Instead of gears a magnetic based moving sistem could be more faster and more accurate? Also i have a question: big cannons can move till firing or you need te move them whit the platform that they are on when firing?

I have a question: we know that tracks and wheels are thw most nonarmoured parts of a APC IFV and tanks. Why they are not more inside the chassis? I mean less distance between left and right row of wheels and tracks

Here is something that is puzzling me:

Since the EPOHA turret does not intrude into the crew compartment, why use the smaller turret and gun on the APC version of the Kurganetz?
They could have just used the EPOHA on both the IFV and APC versions.