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69 posters
Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
cracker- Posts : 232
Points : 273
Join date : 2014-09-04
what's the armament of boomerang? turret looks small. KPVT ?
xeno- Posts : 268
Points : 271
Join date : 2013-02-04
Russians have no time to produce and test more Epoha-lites for boomerangs...
2SPOOKY4U- Posts : 276
Points : 287
Join date : 2014-09-20
Armata, Kurganets, and Boomerang have French input?KoTeMoRe wrote:AJ-47 wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:cracker wrote:
VBCI will get Jaguar update with 40mm chaingun+ATGM probably a Spike variation since the MMP isn't yet issue free.
Yoy right about the ATGM, but the 40mm is not a chaine gun. It has telescopic ammo.
Entirely true for the T40 turret my bad. However, while that's true for the demonstrator, we still don't know what the final ECPA/EBRC turret will incorporate. THE AMX 56 was designed with 20mm in mind, it ended up with a .50 cal. Same for the T40 ATMG's. Started MMP, now France's looking for Spike solution. I hope they can keep the cost down and have the telescopic solution. Because when all the current problems die out, France will be yet again a great shopping place and cooperation partner.
BTW the engine placement is fairly conservative.
Oh and this for comparison.
I think the French have sold to Russia FAR more than just a couple of boats. Am pretty sure the T-14 has also more French input that we might believe.
Laughable assertion, tell us why you think so.
2SPOOKY4U- Posts : 276
Points : 287
Join date : 2014-09-20
xeno wrote:Russians have no time to produce and test more Epoha-lites for boomerangs...
Why is that? Unmanned turrets are more simple to produce than Boomerang. I don't see why they would have a problem making them in time for May 9.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
2SPOOKY4U wrote:Armata, Kurganets, and Boomerang have French input?KoTeMoRe wrote:AJ-47 wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:cracker wrote:
VBCI will get Jaguar update with 40mm chaingun+ATGM probably a Spike variation since the MMP isn't yet issue free.
Yoy right about the ATGM, but the 40mm is not a chaine gun. It has telescopic ammo.
Entirely true for the T40 turret my bad. However, while that's true for the demonstrator, we still don't know what the final ECPA/EBRC turret will incorporate. THE AMX 56 was designed with 20mm in mind, it ended up with a .50 cal. Same for the T40 ATMG's. Started MMP, now France's looking for Spike solution. I hope they can keep the cost down and have the telescopic solution. Because when all the current problems die out, France will be yet again a great shopping place and cooperation partner.
BTW the engine placement is fairly conservative.
Oh and this for comparison.
I think the French have sold to Russia FAR more than just a couple of boats. Am pretty sure the T-14 has also more French input that we might believe.
Laughable assertion, tell us why you think so.
Since RTD has been working with Russia since 2011 on the Atom program and we have a Boomerang that has striking similarities with both the VBCI and the AMV from Patria. Given the Patria/Rosomak was never a factor.
Since we have Igor Sevastianov saying in the middle of june that the Atom was ongoing. And since the final product has one similarity too many to be simple coincidence.
The day the Boomerang will be open to laymen eyes, the ergonomics will betray the RTD origins. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the Russian MOD finds everything it needs on the Boomerang.
Acheron- Posts : 114
Points : 118
Join date : 2015-04-22
Location : Hades
KoTeMoRe wrote:
Since RTD has been working with Russia since 2011 on the Atom program and we have a Boomerang that has striking similarities with both the VBCI and the AMV from Patria. Given the Patria/Rosomak was never a factor.
Since we have Igor Sevastianov saying in the middle of june that the Atom was ongoing. And since the final product has one similarity too many to be simple coincidence.
The day the Boomerang will be open to laymen eyes, the ergonomics will betray the RTD origins. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the Russian MOD finds everything it needs on the Boomerang.
Alternatively, the Russians could have simply created a vehicle that is externally similar to VBCI because, let's face it, all of the contemporary 8x8 AFVs that fulfill the same purpose (VBCI, Patria, Boxer, Pandur, Freccia, etc...) tend to look like clones of each other from a superficial outside perspective. We won't really know for certain until the full specifications and the interior components of Boomerang are fully disclosed for comparison with its foreign compatriots (or until someone on the design team will confirm it).
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Russia never tested Patria, but they well tested Freccia and Centauro from Italy, they have them in trials. Of course they also have a lot of experiences with BTR-80 and BTR-90, so they just take the best solution from them all for new Boomerang. I'm not sure if VBCI could swim, but Boomerang could.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Acheron wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:
Since RTD has been working with Russia since 2011 on the Atom program and we have a Boomerang that has striking similarities with both the VBCI and the AMV from Patria. Given the Patria/Rosomak was never a factor.
Since we have Igor Sevastianov saying in the middle of june that the Atom was ongoing. And since the final product has one similarity too many to be simple coincidence.
The day the Boomerang will be open to laymen eyes, the ergonomics will betray the RTD origins. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the Russian MOD finds everything it needs on the Boomerang.
Alternatively, the Russians could have simply created a vehicle that is externally similar to VBCI because, let's face it, all of the contemporary 8x8 AFVs that fulfill the same purpose (VBCI, Patria, Boxer, Pandur, Freccia, etc...) tend to look like clones of each other from a superficial outside perspective. We won't really know for certain until the full specifications and the interior components of Boomerang are fully disclosed for comparison with its foreign compatriots (or until someone on the design team will confirm it).
I agree in full and subscribe to your assessment that form will follow function. However, as I said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we were to learn that indeed there is RTD DNA within Boomerang. And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary. The project looks solid and exceptionally well finished, especially when compared with the Chinese VN-1/ZDBL range.
Plus check the production shots from NExter and compare the cutouts with the Russian Boomerang.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
cracker wrote:what's the armament of boomerang? turret looks small. KPVT ?
I believe than Epoha turets are ultimatively meant for APC version of Bumerang, Kruganets and Armata. I think that we have yet to see IFV version of
those three
btw - Soviet red flags looks epic !
Zivo- Posts : 1487
Points : 1511
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : U.S.A.
Side panorama, and backup cameras.
AJ-47- Posts : 205
Points : 222
Join date : 2011-10-05
Location : USA
Viktor wrote:cracker wrote:what's the armament of boomerang? turret looks small. KPVT ?
I believe than Epoha turets are ultimatively meant for APC version of Bumerang, Kruganets and Armata. I think that we have yet to see IFV version of those three
btw - Soviet red flags looks epic !
I think that the APCs for the entire 3 families have the 14.5 mm gun, and the IFVs have the 30mm gun.
I believe that later in time, and mabee it will take 5 years, the IFVs will have the 57mm gun, and the APCs will have the 45mm gun.
2SPOOKY4U- Posts : 276
Points : 287
Join date : 2014-09-20
KoTeMoRe wrote:Acheron wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:
Since RTD has been working with Russia since 2011 on the Atom program and we have a Boomerang that has striking similarities with both the VBCI and the AMV from Patria. Given the Patria/Rosomak was never a factor.
Since we have Igor Sevastianov saying in the middle of june that the Atom was ongoing. And since the final product has one similarity too many to be simple coincidence.
The day the Boomerang will be open to laymen eyes, the ergonomics will betray the RTD origins. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the Russian MOD finds everything it needs on the Boomerang.
Alternatively, the Russians could have simply created a vehicle that is externally similar to VBCI because, let's face it, all of the contemporary 8x8 AFVs that fulfill the same purpose (VBCI, Patria, Boxer, Pandur, Freccia, etc...) tend to look like clones of each other from a superficial outside perspective. We won't really know for certain until the full specifications and the interior components of Boomerang are fully disclosed for comparison with its foreign compatriots (or until someone on the design team will confirm it).
I agree in full and subscribe to your assessment that form will follow function. However, as I said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we were to learn that indeed there is RTD DNA within Boomerang. And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary. The project looks solid and exceptionally well finished, especially when compared with the Chinese VN-1/ZDBL range.
Plus check the production shots from NExter and compare the cutouts with the Russian Boomerang.
Looking like a parallelogram on wheels does not mean it has "RTD DNA within Boomerang" and neither that is was developed in the same time window of Atom also signifies RTD input.
KoTeMoRe wrote:And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary.
Implying that Frenchies had a hand in developing anything is always an insult, no matter how you intend it.
cracker- Posts : 232
Points : 273
Join date : 2014-09-04
what's the "bolts" or rivets things, are they... bolts or rivets?
So, the armour seems solid: at least a very good base hull (aluminium or steel?) + a total coverage of this quite thick (looks like 5-6cm) panels, probably composed of glass fiber, plastics, or ceramics, sandwitched in high hardness steel? What's to be expected, like imune to 12.7 AP everywhere, and to 30mm APDS frontally? And there is probably a good spall liner inside as well
45mm for the APC variant seems too much work, it's probably almost as big as the 57mm... I think 30mm is fine for APC.
So, the armour seems solid: at least a very good base hull (aluminium or steel?) + a total coverage of this quite thick (looks like 5-6cm) panels, probably composed of glass fiber, plastics, or ceramics, sandwitched in high hardness steel? What's to be expected, like imune to 12.7 AP everywhere, and to 30mm APDS frontally? And there is probably a good spall liner inside as well
45mm for the APC variant seems too much work, it's probably almost as big as the 57mm... I think 30mm is fine for APC.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
Points : 3057
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Terra Australis
The most widespread assumption is that the 30mm will be replaced with a 45mm gun
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
https://i.imgur.com/odADS4d.jpg
Turn up the contrast on this one- good detail behind the wheels.
Turn up the contrast on this one- good detail behind the wheels.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
2SPOOKY4U wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Acheron wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:
Since RTD has been working with Russia since 2011 on the Atom program and we have a Boomerang that has striking similarities with both the VBCI and the AMV from Patria. Given the Patria/Rosomak was never a factor.
Since we have Igor Sevastianov saying in the middle of june that the Atom was ongoing. And since the final product has one similarity too many to be simple coincidence.
The day the Boomerang will be open to laymen eyes, the ergonomics will betray the RTD origins. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the Russian MOD finds everything it needs on the Boomerang.
Alternatively, the Russians could have simply created a vehicle that is externally similar to VBCI because, let's face it, all of the contemporary 8x8 AFVs that fulfill the same purpose (VBCI, Patria, Boxer, Pandur, Freccia, etc...) tend to look like clones of each other from a superficial outside perspective. We won't really know for certain until the full specifications and the interior components of Boomerang are fully disclosed for comparison with its foreign compatriots (or until someone on the design team will confirm it).
I agree in full and subscribe to your assessment that form will follow function. However, as I said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we were to learn that indeed there is RTD DNA within Boomerang. And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary. The project looks solid and exceptionally well finished, especially when compared with the Chinese VN-1/ZDBL range.
Plus check the production shots from NExter and compare the cutouts with the Russian Boomerang.
Looking like a parallelogram on wheels does not mean it has "RTD DNA within Boomerang" and neither that is was developed in the same time window of Atom also signifies RTD input.KoTeMoRe wrote:And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary.
Implying that Frenchies had a hand in developing anything is always an insult, no matter how you intend it.
Sigh...whatever. I hope you're right.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
KoTeMoRe, how dare you suggest Russia borrows from anyone ever 
.
On a similar silly note:
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/April-22th-Alabino/i-Ft3LwXt/0/O/2015AlabinoFirst-02.jpg
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/April-22th-Alabino/i-WsPW5X3/0/O/2015AlabinoFirst-04.jpg
Funny how the welding on the splash plate on different Kurganets versions looks worlds apart. The IFV one looks pretty shitty honestly.
.On a similar silly note:
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/April-22th-Alabino/i-Ft3LwXt/0/O/2015AlabinoFirst-02.jpg
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/April-22th-Alabino/i-WsPW5X3/0/O/2015AlabinoFirst-04.jpg
Funny how the welding on the splash plate on different Kurganets versions looks worlds apart. The IFV one looks pretty shitty honestly.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Hehe Osobist on MP.net made also a stingy observation on the Armata Led's. It was russian alright because one was nicked.
Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...
Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...
EKS- Posts : 33
Points : 32
Join date : 2014-09-03
Location : The Netherlands
KoTeMoRe wrote:Hehe Osobist on MP.net made also a stingy observation on the Armata Led's. It was russian alright because one was nicked.
Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...
Boomerang can't be anything but local. Although, From a strategic point of view. But i agree that Some features, from a design point of view, look a bit Like some western models, but it's only the shape. The important systems are russian tech.
Werewolf- Posts : 5926
Points : 6115
Join date : 2012-10-24
EKS wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Hehe Osobist on MP.net made also a stingy observation on the Armata Led's. It was russian alright because one was nicked.
Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...
Boomerang can't be anything but local. Although, From a strategic point of view. But i agree that Some features, from a design point of view, look a bit Like some western models, but it's only the shape. The important systems are russian tech.
So now russia relies on western countries to use a form/shape of the chassis
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Werewolf wrote:EKS wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Hehe Osobist on MP.net made also a stingy observation on the Armata Led's. It was russian alright because one was nicked.
Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...
Boomerang can't be anything but local. Although, From a strategic point of view. But i agree that Some features, from a design point of view, look a bit Like some western models, but it's only the shape. The important systems are russian tech.
So now russia relies on western countries to use a form/shape of the chassis
I posted the rolling train of the VBCI, which so far is breaking from the Boomerang pattern. But hey, only coincidences.
Brovich- Posts : 12
Points : 14
Join date : 2015-02-25
Just created the Kurganets-25 Wikipedia page. THIS
Feel free to add sourced info.
Feel free to add sourced info.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
Points : 3057
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Terra Australis
TR1 wrote:https://i.imgur.com/odADS4d.jpg
Turn up the contrast on this one- good detail behind the wheels.
Another thing...."Belshina" tyres - Belorussian http://www.belshinajsc.by/
Regular- Posts : 3894
Points : 3868
Join date : 2013-03-10
Location : Ukrolovestan
Nice catch man. I noticed that Russian army was using western tires a lot, nice to see Belarussians are having their slice.
Ok, I've seen someone claiming that Armata is a copy of AMX Leclerc, so is it safe to assume that Kurganets is a copy of AMX-10P and Bumerang is VBCI.. And Putin is a copy of Napoleon.
Ok, I've seen someone claiming that Armata is a copy of AMX Leclerc, so is it safe to assume that Kurganets is a copy of AMX-10P and Bumerang is VBCI.. And Putin is a copy of Napoleon.