Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

PapaDragon wrote:
In what way it's not superior?
...
As for build speed it's already much faster than Grigorevich class, in case of fourth Grigorevich we can say it's infinitely faster

hoom wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
In what way it's not superior?
...
As for build speed it's already much faster than Grigorevich class, in case of fourth Grigorevich we can say it's infinitely faster

11356 has 8* UKSK permanently, simultaneously a helicopter vs maybe only 4* Kalibr & no chopper when those are carried.
11356 has 24* Buk3 equivalent SAM vs only 16* 9M96.
11356 has certainly older radar but they definitely work vs still unproven Zaslon.
11356 has proper 533mm torps (potential for Vodopod ASMs too) vs point defense Paket (albeit Paket may be more practical use).

Build speed of the 11356es hasn't been especially rapid but one of the Talwars was laid down to commissioned in about 3yrs.

-9M96 is S-350/400 grade missile and is vastly superior to BUK equivalent

They only have the short range 40km 9m96

UKSK on Grigorevich can't use Onyx anti-ship missiles, only Kalibr LACM (no required radar​) and naval Kalibrs are becoming less of a priority since INF limitations are now gone

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Grig's where pure stop-gap measure, cheap and easy to produce at a time when Russia NEEDED the ships. Those things were only made because of that. Problem is if you start putting more expensive stuff in the ship it's going to make the ship much more expensive.

So then you create the argument. "Well it already costs this much let's just build one of these instead they are better"

At this point, Russia is trying to focus on Gorshkov's rather than an outdated design.

Russia does not produce the same engines, and they had to have India negotiate with the ukraine to get the powerplants for the last three grigorovich thst will be exported.

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Fitting them with redut would mean changing totally the sensors and electronics associated to it.
Also adding another set of UKSK would mean further modifying the ship.
Russia does not produce the same engines, and they had to have India negotiate with the ukraine to get the powerplants for the last three grigorovich thst will be exported.

Yes they could adapt the 11356 to go with the newer gas turbines that saturn is.going to.produce, but that would mean delays to production of gorshkov and.anyway a possible.need of hull redesign and extensive testing for such 11356M. Meaning it will take more time and the cost will be increased.


This will not be anymore a cheap ship.
Much better to spend the money to build more gorshkov.

20386 is a different concept, but it can offer very interesting capabilities, and it is also a.testing ground for new concepts and new technologies (as it has been the case for gorshkov)

Anyway, probably the first serial ship will be better armed.than the mercury (first.20386), as it is typical for Russia

Furthermore, as missile launchers they can always use buyan-m and karakurts

Isos wrote:

Russia does not produce the same engines, and they had to have India negotiate with the ukraine to get the powerplants for the last three grigorovich thst will be exported.

India ordered 4 new Grigorovitch, 2 to be build (newly build) in Russia and 2 other in India. I don't think they are the ones waiting for engines but new ones.

Anyway, india is more than happy with them. They have their domestic produced Shivalik available for production, which uses the same weapons as Grigirovitch but also has israeli barak missiles and radars but yet order more Grigorovitch.

Weapons are the same but structure is not which means Grigorovitch are worth their money and are a very well build.

Isos wrote:Gorshkov should replace Grigorovitch. Blue water ships should replace blue water ships. Corvette should replace corvettes...

medo wrote:No, neither Gorshkov, neither Gremyashchy, neither 20386 corvettes will replace Grigorovich frigates. Admiral grigorovich class frigates will serve in Black Sea fleet, where they will work together with Buyan-M and Karakurt missile corvettes. Gorshkov frigates and 20386 corvettes will serve in Northern and Pacific fleets as blue water ships. 20385 Gremyashchy corvettes will serve in Pacific fleet together with standars 20380 Steregushy corvettes as green water patrol ships to protect the Okhotsk sea, Sakhalin and Kuril islands. Pacific fleet could also buy some 22160 and 23550 patrol ships.

Pretty much people fail to understand that, when you try and go to add newer components to a ship that was never designed with them in mind it requires redoing the entire ship

So because India is happy using outdated frigates Russia should be to?

PapaDragon wrote:

medo wrote:No, neither Gorshkov, neither Gremyashchy, neither 20386 corvettes will replace Grigorovich frigates. Admiral grigorovich class frigates will serve in Black Sea fleet, where they will work together with Buyan-M and Karakurt missile corvettes. Gorshkov frigates and 20386 corvettes will serve in Northern and Pacific fleets as blue water ships. 20385 Gremyashchy corvettes will serve in Pacific fleet together with standars 20380 Steregushy corvettes as green water patrol ships to protect the Okhotsk sea, Sakhalin and Kuril islands. Pacific fleet could also buy some 22160 and 23550 patrol ships.

I am talking long term construction

Grigorevich, Buyan and other stuff already built will be staying in use of course but they will no longer be built once everything is sorted out with Gorshkovs, Mercuries and Karakurts