Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
Isos wrote:It means they are short on such systems and use missiles that widely used.
They should buy Sosna-R. Some 100-200 to give their SAM systems a chance to survive. Indian AD needs an upgrade and get bigger.
Sosn-R and pantsir can solve this issue.
medo wrote:India choose Biho instead of Pantsir, because by India's words it is better than Tunguska and Pantsir.
Most current gen helicopter pilots practice low level approach, and use the popup maneuver for launching their air to ground missile, which have a roughly 3–4 miles range. Current gen helicopters has a tactical advantage of surprise as it can often evade radar by staying in the ground clutter until within weapon release range. This requires a Kornet EM ATGM operator to remain on alert and to have NVG working, and to anticipate the vector of approach, and then to get tone within 10 seconds.medo wrote:Kornet is laser beam riding missile, so it looks back to launcher, not to the target. Countermeasures on helicopter will not work against Kornet. Also Kornet-EM is a new missile and it is made to engage flying targets like drones and helicopters. Don't forget, that Ataka have air defense version of missile with expanded rod fragmented warhead and proximity fuse. If Ataka could engage flying targets with laser beam riding missile, than Kornet could as well.
No India didn't. K 30 Biho was simply tested along with Pantsir. India never purchased the K-30 Bihomedo wrote:India choose Biho instead of Pantsir, because by India's words it is better than Tunguska and Pantsir.
Even if Kornet-EM is employed to engage air targets like helicopters chances are it will miss because platforms like helos apart from carrying several countermeasures are far more maneuverable than platforms like tanks or IFVs.
India already chose Biho instead of Pantsir and Sosna.
Most current gen helicopter pilots practice low level approach, and use the popup maneuver for launching their air to ground missile, which have a roughly 3–4 miles range. Current gen helicopters has a tactical advantage of surprise as it can often evade radar by staying in the ground clutter until within weapon release range. This requires a Kornet EM ATGM operator to remain on alert and to have NVG working, and to anticipate the vector of approach, and then to get tone within 10 seconds.
Smart mission management systems, which make use of digital terrain elevation maps and radio modems to link to battlefield intelligence databases and ISR sensors allows helicopter pilots to mark on the digital map, in colour, areas where the helicopter is within the line of sight of any specified point on the map. An operator can thus mark the known location of a ATGM/MANPADS team or machine gun nest and then use terrain masking to avoid detection and weapons fire.
No India didn't. K 30 Biho was simply tested along with Pantsir. India never purchased the K-30 Biho
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They have ATAKAs for close-up work. This one's for when the presence of enemy tactical air defence is too heavy to risk it.Isos wrote:That's a clear miss. Pretty shitty and expensive. I guess they went for an expensive western like design.
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lyle6 wrote:They have ATAKAs for close-up work. This one's for when the presence of enemy tactical air defence is too heavy to risk it.Isos wrote:That's a clear miss. Pretty shitty and expensive. I guess they went for an expensive western like design.
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It's a 10km range missiles. Nothing better than Ataka.
Radar guidance makes it more expensive and subject to jamming or early detection by ground based RWR.
It will pop up on any AD system when using its radar to look for targets.
Optics are totally passive and laser hard to detect.
New ataka has 8km range. Vikhr has 12km range.
Any radar can be jammed... and you can home on any radar. It's a signal like any other.
Helicopter can climb and hide behind a moutain but that's where they are the most vulnerable to MANPADS and small arm fire.
Controling the heights of moutains where enemy can hide its planes and helicopters is a basic strategy...even more if you have ground vehicles around there. You base teams of 2 or 3 soldier with manpads and machine gun to destroy any intruders there.
Not actually true on both counts.... in this case the jammer for the initial detection would have to be continuous, which would mean the helicopter could launch a missile in passive mode to hit the jammer.
The Kh-35 anti ship missile uses MMW radar guidance to make it unjammable and harder to detect (MMW radar is absorbed by moisture in the air), which is why it is often used as a weather radar and is only useful to 10-20km in most climates.
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d_taddei2 wrote:India operates mainly T-72 and T-90. To which production rights given, as well as Indian own upgrades. So why they would even consider buy the leclerc tank is just completely stupid...
d_taddei2 wrote:
... not only is tank not up to the current level of the T-90 India are using, it's a completely different calibre, and maintenance and parts are not in common with T-72 and T-90. It makes sense to keep, parts, maintenance, training and calibre similar/the same. Indian back in 2019 placed order for over 400+ T-90 so the T-90 isn't going anywhere. They would be better in either upgrading the T-72 or building more T-90. However if they do want to replace the 1770 T-72 with a new generation of tank then the only option on the market is Armata, and I am sure Russia would allow production rights if they were going to replace the whole 1770 with Armata. Let me hope India sees sense and goes for Armata. As come 2030 leclerc no Matter what upgrades u put on it will be not be a tank of the future.
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lancelot wrote:d_taddei2 wrote:India operates mainly T-72 and T-90. To which production rights given, as well as Indian own upgrades. So why they would even consider buy the leclerc tank is just completely stupid...
That makes sense.d_taddei2 wrote:
... not only is tank not up to the current level of the T-90 India are using, it's a completely different calibre, and maintenance and parts are not in common with T-72 and T-90. It makes sense to keep, parts, maintenance, training and calibre similar/the same. Indian back in 2019 placed order for over 400+ T-90 so the T-90 isn't going anywhere. They would be better in either upgrading the T-72 or building more T-90. However if they do want to replace the 1770 T-72 with a new generation of tank then the only option on the market is Armata, and I am sure Russia would allow production rights if they were going to replace the whole 1770 with Armata. Let me hope India sees sense and goes for Armata. As come 2030 leclerc no Matter what upgrades u put on it will be not be a tank of the future.
Welp. That makes it certain India will purchase Leclerc then.
You know how the Indians like the most mishmashed logistics they can get. It will be... wonderful... 120mm rifled gun on Arjunk, 125mm smoothbore on T-90, and 120mm smoothbore on the Leclerc. A thing of wonder really. Just make sure to pad the pockets of the right people and you are set.
The thing which would make the most sense, I think, would be doing similar upgrades to the T-72B3M and T-90M. The T-90M upgrades are supposedly on the pipeline. Indian T-72 tanks have crap gun penetration. It might not even reliably penetrate a Chinese Type 15 with all the optional armor modules on it. Or the Pakistani VT-4s. It needs a gun and ammo upgrade.
Yeah so according to you the helicopter can detect a jamming MMW signal but the ground based RWR can't. And yoy say passive missiles can't be used against the helicopter's radar but can be used against the ground based jammer.
So how does the kh-35 detects its signal back if it absorbed by moisture on both ways and hit the ship where it looses strenght too ?
Ships electronics are far mlre sensitive and advanced than the one in the kh-35. If the kh-35 with its small radar can analyze the return signal that went both ways and bounced on its target, then RWR on the ship can easily detect it too.
MMW radars are just radars. If you want to jamm them it works the same as any other radar. Just emmit parasit signals on it frequency.
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