Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #1

sepheronx wrote:some people on MP.NET are stating that Energomesh relied on the sale of the RD-180's to the US or go bankrupt.  I asked for a source, they have not provided one.  Is there anyone here who could shed some light on this matter?

LOL China, India, and the Russian govt. are more than enough, the Pentagon can't have their cake and eat it!

Hehehe....

Despite the availability of necessary documentation and legal rights for producing RD-180 in the United States, NASA is considering development of an indigenous core stage engine that would be "capable of generating high levels of thrust approximately equal to or exceeding the performance of the Russian-built engine." NASA considered in 2010 to produce a fully operational engine by 2020 or sooner, depending оn partnership with the U.S. Defense Department.

So despite having complete documentation on the RD-180 NASA thinks that they might be able to make a rocket motor as powerful or possibly more powerful than the Russian motor as long as they get lots of funding from the US military... and 10 years to develop and make it... I wonder how long it would take to make from scratch?

Would like to point out that the Russian ban on exporting engines to the US is for military use and therefore have no effect on getting people to and from the ISS.

It is NASAs suspension of cooperation with the Russians that will prevent Astronauts getting to the ISS.

Rocket with 6 ton payload is set and ....

Proton Rocket Carrying Advanced Russian Satellite Readies for Launch

GarryB wrote:

Despite the availability of necessary documentation and legal rights for producing RD-180 in the United States, NASA is considering development of an indigenous core stage engine that would be "capable of generating high levels of thrust approximately equal to or exceeding the performance of the Russian-built engine." NASA considered in 2010 to produce a fully operational engine by 2020 or sooner, depending оn partnership with the U.S. Defense Department.

If NASA is considering that, then I am also considering to produce my first batch of RD-180 engines in, my garage, by lunch-time tomorrow. I am considering that the batch would consist of 2X10^1000 engines. Of course, the majority of the people on the mp.ret would believe all of this.

Figured as much since Russia puts most things into space and will always need new engines so I figyred Russian gov was biggest buyer. Go figure it was unknown members of Mp.net saying with no evidence when I asked.

Damn !

Rocket "Proton" with Russian satellite fell outside Kazakhstan

Did anyone saw the video of the Pronton-M ?  
Seems like it was hit by a projectile that was flying from right to towards the same rocket trajectory..    

look at sec :47



This is incredibly suspicious.  people say it was a star.. but stars do not move so fast.. and it was the only "Star" vissible there..
Looks pretty much people that something external without an explosive hit the rocket and that thing had self illumination.
Could be space a small space junk ,that collide with the rocket and damage it.. a kinetic missile without explosives or the unthinkable thing but only thing left an Ufo.

Surprisingly about the mysterious light pass ,is when the rocket start to fail.. Looks like something impacted the rocket .
And Russia could hide it ,and not reveal it.. could be an attack of US on Russia Pronton rocket.. from satellite ,or could be just space junk..
What is clear is that something crossed the same flight path of the rocket and this one start to fail about same time pass the rocket.

A commission from federal agency is working on it.
They  are analysing telemetry data.After all the focus on perfecting Breeze-M vehicle some production problem might have happened
in 3rd stage.
They just need to focus on what caused emergency shutdown.
IF THEY can debug the Bulava missile, they will do it now also.
I fully believe will resume Proton launches From july.

Vann7 wrote:
This is incredibly suspicious.  people say it was a star..

I cannot comment on it right now..but what I cansay is..

Russia has radars covering every inch of space near khazakstan nothing can come from U.S .. missile, a space junk anything
The location of Khazak is also very primarily strategic in this sense.

No wonder all the missile warheads are tested in these regions.

Vann7 wrote:Did anyone saw the video of the Pronton-M ?  
Seems like it was hit by a projectile that was flying from right to towards the same rocket trajectory..    

look at sec :47

This is incredibly suspicious.  people say it was a star.. but stars do not move so fast.. and it was the only "Star" vissible there..
Looks pretty much people that something external without an explosive hit the rocket and that thing had self illumination.
Could be space a small space junk ,that collide with the rocket and damage it.. a kinetic missile without explosives or the unthinkable thing but only thing left an Ufo.

Surprisingly about the mysterious light pass ,is when the rocket start to fail.. Looks like something impacted the rocket .
And Russia could hide it ,and not reveal it.. could be an attack of US on Russia Pronton rocket.. from satellite ,or could be just space junk..
What is clear is that something crossed the same flight path of the rocket and this one start to fail about same time pass the rocket.

This clip terminates 7 minutes before the event.

Viktor wrote:Damn !

Rocket "Proton" with Russian satellite fell outside Kazakhstan

proton - bulava..

something very very disterbing happens to the Russian space industry after 1991.

Either is inability of the work teams
or inability for the private sector to provide reliable solutions
or ther is a low level sabotage in the industry that keeps failing in an unacceptable maner

arpakola I would not go that far. Last year out of 32 lauches, only 1 was faliure so I guess that was a good score. Problem with Bulava was that the company that has never done SLBM got

the job to design most advanced SLBM in the world and latter on problem was in production itself.

arpakola wrote:

Viktor wrote:Damn !

Rocket "Proton" with Russian satellite fell outside Kazakhstan

proton - bulava..

something very very disterbing happens to the Russian space industry after 1991.

Either is inability of the work teams
or inability for the private sector to provide reliable solutions
or ther is a low level sabotage in the industry that keeps failing in an unacceptable maner

There was lack of qualified personnel at one point.  Now things have changed but unfortunately, there is still work to be done. They seem to have great track record of other launches of others like cosmonauts, so it seems to be directly related to launches of Proton-M itself.  Could be inherit design flaws or something else.  As Viktor said, there has been many launches in last year with 1 failure.  Pretty good track record really.

Angara family of rockets will come out soon enough (first launch this year I believe) and they will replace Proton and may deal with any inherit flaws.  They had failures of launch of Proton in Soviet Union too.  Now it just seems to be the combination between the rocket itself and the upper stage.

Lot of serious discussion going at full steam in top echelons .. right now
continued fro last december talks..
Import subsitution at full swing

We must do everything so that everything needs DIC produced in our territory, we neither of whom did not
depend on any of the lines re Army, Navy on new weapons systems", - Putin said

"I am confident that it will benefit the industry itself," - he added.
In addition, Putin stressed that "will need to be adjusted accordingly the work of our scientific schools,
you need to carefully look at the way how the construction work on research and development, surpassing
the work with the Academy of Sciences."

Meeting on state program for armamments

Opening the meeting, he said that it is planned to discuss "performance plans in the state armaments program,
to talk about
how we are working on some specific areas." In this regard, the President said that the meeting was attended
by the heads
of major military-industrial complex and the main designers.

Documentation for meetings..?

We talked in detail on key aspects of these programs today will touch on a few new and summarize", - Putin said.
"The results of our work will be recorded in the document, where we analyze the results of what has been done,
and most importantly - pay attention to what needs to be done in the near future, and that will need to be
adjusted due to changing circumstances, including, as we discussed at the beginning of our meetings, due to
the necessity of some import substitution "- the president said.


РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140516/1008057014.html#ixzz31tcAEueB

gaurav wrote:
I cannot comment on it right now..but what I cansay is..

Russia has radars covering every inch of space near khazakstan nothing can come from U.S .. missile, a space junk anything
The location of Khazak is also very primarily strategic in this sense.

No wonder all the missile warheads are tested in these regions.

But a Rail Gun could have done it.. And you cannot track that with radars because the projectile is very small..
The rail gun attack could have come from a satellite or from a warship and no radars will detect it..  Just look at the dam video..
Something flys towards the rocket and at the same time is supposed to collide is when the rocket start to show problems in the engine.
IF it was an attack of US ,Russia will keep it secret ,and solve it behind the scene as they have done other things in the past.  

Everyone is discussing this ,no idea why no one have taken more seriously this ..looks pretty much something collides with the rocket
that was flying in the same flight path of the rocket ,and many are saying is a rail gun attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO5Od8Lhaa4

Something is going on here.. and I will not be surprised it was a direct attack of US to Russia
and that retaliation will happen.. with some "accidents " happening to US. like some satellites falling without explanation or a submarine "Accident". In fact just a small time later after the "Accident " of Proton-M there was another incident of debris falling over Australia ,what looked the crash of some satellite from space.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-16/huge-flaming-object-falls-to-earth-in-north-queensland-townsvill/5456566

Some suggested it was from the Russian rocket debris but could be from another satellite and was shot down in retaliation.

Vann7 wrote:But a Rail Gun could have done it.. And you cannot track that with radars because the projectile is very small..
The rail gun attack could have come from a satellite or from a warship and no radars will detect it..  Just look at the dam video..
Something flys towards the rocket and at the same time is supposed to collide is when the rocket start to show problems in the engine.
IF it was an attack of US ,Russia will keep it secret ,and solve it behind the scene as they have done other things in the past.  

Everyone is discussing this ,no idea why no one have taken more seriously this ..looks pretty much something collides with the rocket
that was flying in the same flight path of the rocket ,and many are saying is a rail gun attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO5Od8Lhaa4

Something is going on here.. and I will not be surprised it was a direct attack of US to Russia
and that retaliation will happen.. with some "accidents " happening to US. like some satellites falling without explanation or a submarine "Accident".  In fact just a small time later after the "Accident " of Proton-M there was another incident of debris falling over Australia ,what looked the crash of some satellite from space.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-16/huge-flaming-object-falls-to-earth-in-north-queensland-townsvill/5456566

Some suggested it was from the Russian rocket debris  but could be from another satellite and was shot down in retaliation.

Do you ever read any of the posts here, or you just randomly type?

The question you have to ask yourself would be why would anyone use the first operational rail gun to commit an act of war like this?

Equally the radars and EO systems used by the Russians can track chips of paint in space, do you really think the projectile of a rail gun would be invisible?

Any rail gun in space would be silly to use during launch simply because the target is accelerating through air... so to hit it you must fire your projectile into air.

It would be a bit like seeing a fish in the water and shooting it with a rifle... when you know the fish is coming up out of the water and would be much easier to shoot sitting beside you on the beach.

Hypersonic projectiles with their own ionised plasma screen only get such a plasma screen in the atmosphere.

Everyone is discussing this ,no idea why no one have taken more seriously this ..
looks pretty much
something collides with the rocket
that was flying in the same flight path of the rocket ,and many are saying is
a rail gun attack.

1. First what I belive is that U.S is still testing the rail gun.
  U.S is nowhere near the completion phase of that testing.

2. This satellite was developed by EADS-Astrium company.
  Which is french(NATO) why the hell would U.S try to shoot this down.
  U.S and france are brothers ina arms(bed partners) when it comes to Ukrainian crisis..

3. Another point is that the goal of this satellite was to give internet
  connectivity to remote russian regions in far-east.
  A complete no go Target for space strike weapon that moron on
    utube kept shouting..
  I dont think the video is authentic.
  Has it come  on RT , RIAN sites. I dont think so..

4. Till nowwhat I have heard..
  All Russ media are blaming the control engine for third stage RD-0123.
  That control engine malfunctioned 10- 20 seconds "before" the emergency shutdown..
  So all these events does not relate to any kind of interception theories ..
  that you are indicating.

5. The engine kept on burning for 540 seconds.. so hence this was not a complete failure
  proton rocket..

6. But in order to proof the your intercept theory .. I have asked you about the
  source of video?
  And also asked whether the same tilted gruelling rocket was seen in other videos.
  The source is blatantly Rhetoric and I cannot comment on his nice commentary.

7. This Super space scientist of the yanks probably seems to be an Ukrainian drug addict
  in the ranks of Right sector now conning off this superstition .. he he..he seems to dozing off, his words are incoherent,
  ill-logical ..
8. Baikonur is strategically located. It was not without reason that Baikonur was selected as Soviet space
launch facility.
U,S has minimum or no tracking centres near khazak and whatever the U,S has is in east europe but no way it can cleanly track
the missile for a direct hit. That is impossible.

The Video comes from RT..  did u ever pay attention?



What other sites are doing is zooming the image so blind people like you could see.. but for me with perfect vision
was perfectly visible with the RT video. Try using the High quality version of the video ,get the video in full screen and get  some glasses if you cannot see the RT video at 1:21 -1:22 seconds how and object comes from the right side in the same flight path of the rocket.

here the same RT video edited colors to isolate the object and the rocket encounter..





So what is that? Are you going to deny the small object that clearly shows in video in a collision path with the rocket? .   
The object even vanish after it pass under the rocket.. and thats when the engine start to fail.

Clearly there is solid evidence an object was flying at high speed towards the rocket and it wasn't a star
and at the moment they are near is when the rocket engines start to fail.. I don't think is a coincidence..
Why would US attack Russia rocket with a rail gun?  Its called sabotage . Is not the first time they have done that..
they used to sabotage Soviet Union too. A modified rail Gun could have done that and remain undetected by any radar if the kinetic
projectile fly too fast and is small enough.

 

it could be space junk however..but im skeptic..there is an object in a collision path with the rocket .
all clearly visible in the RT video. time will tell.. but something external happened to the proton-M rocket and we are not told.
If i were to bet it was a rail gun attack. What will be interesting to know is the Source of the weird lights seen over australia later in the day .. If it was a "mysterious" failure of an US satellite .that that will explain a lot of things . and point to a russian retaliation.

Vann7 wrote:The Video comes from RT..  did u ever pay attention?

What other sites are doing is zooming the image so blind people like you could see.. but for me with perfect vision
was perfectly visible with the RT video. Try using the High quality version of the video ,get the video in full screen and get  some glasses if you cannot see the RT video at 1:21 -1:22 seconds how and object comes from the right side in the same flight path of the rocket.

here the same RT video edited colors to isolate the object and the rocket encounter..

So what is that? Are you going to deny the small object that clearly shows in video in a collision path with the rocket? .   
The object even vanish after it pass under the rocket.. and thats when the engine start to fail.

Clearly there is solid evidence an object was flying at high speed towards the rocket and it wasn't a star
and at the moment they are near is when the rocket engines start to fail.. I don't think is a coincidence..
Why would US attack Russia rocket with a rail gun?  Its called sabotage . Is not the first time they have done that..
they used to sabotage Soviet Union too. A modified rail Gun could have done that and remain undetected by any radar if the kinetic
projectile fly too fast and is small enough.

it could be space junk however..but im skeptic..there is an object in a collision path with the rocket .
all clearly visible in the RT video. time will tell.. but something external happened to the proton-M rocket and we are not told.
If i were to bet it was a rail gun attack.   What will be interesting to know is the Source of the weird lights seen over australia later in the day .. If it was a "mysterious" failure of an US satellite .that that will explain a lot of things . and point to a russian retaliation.

If you go back and read some of the posts in this thread, you'll find some of the answers to what you have been trying to say.

If you disagree with those answers, then give a logical reply to those answers rather than just going and typing away the same things over and over.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Despite the availability of necessary documentation and legal rights for producing RD-180 in the United States, NASA is considering development of an indigenous core stage engine that would be "capable of generating high levels of thrust approximately equal to or exceeding the performance of the Russian-built engine." NASA considered in 2010 to produce a fully operational engine by 2020 or sooner, depending оn partnership with the U.S. Defense Department.

If NASA is considering that, then I am also considering to produce my first batch of RD-180 engines in, my garage, by lunch-time tomorrow. I am considering that the batch would consist of 2X10^1000 engines. Of course, the majority of the people on the mp.ret would believe all of this.

I agree, I'm very skeptical of the thought that they could replace the RD-180's so easily, if they could than they would of done so already. Do people really believe the Pentagon is willingly dependent on the Russian Federation for rocket engines by choice? The Pentagon has no choice but to buy from the Russians, just like Pentagon needed to buy titanium from the Russians to build the SR-71 (and probably for the SR-72), just like the U.S. military needed Russian Empire to recognize the independence of the original 13 Colonies, and to deter the British Empire from further invading the U.S. after that they got done burning down the White house in the war of 1812, just like they needed the Russian's to take up the greatest share of the burden of WW1 & WW2.

Vann7 wrote:

What other sites are doing is zooming the image so blind people like you could see.. but for me
with perfect vision
was perfectly visible with the RT video. Try using the High quality version of the video ,get the video in
full screen and get  some glasses if you cannot see the RT video at 1:21 -1:22 seconds how and object
comes from the right side in the same flight path of the rocket.

Well let us see how this unfolds.
I however believe still that it was a third stage failure.
There are more than enough indicators to believe that.

Let the investigation begin and then only we can draw some conclusions.It is too early to say
anything.



3rd stage steering caused the Proton failure..?

Under normal circumstances, the third stage should reenter the atmosphere with any surviving debris falling into the Pacific, east of Japan.
According to the flight plan, the third stage was programmed to operate until T+582.2 seconds in flight, however according to the official
Russian media, it failed around 40 seconds earlier. Several hours after the liftoff, the official ITAR-TASS news agency reported the failure
of a steering engine on the third stage 545 seconds after liftoff at an altitude of 161 kilometers over the Chinese territory.

The ITAR-TASS quoted the head of the Russian space agency, Roskosmos, Oleg Ostapenko as saying that the head of the
TsNIIMash research institute Aleksandr Danilyuk would be appointed to lead the investigation into the failure.

The drop in pressure was reportedly detected in one of the steering engines as early as 20 seconds before the emergency
engine cutoff at T+545 seconds. The steering engine has four combustion chambers and any failure of one of them could lead
to a tumbling of the vehicle. According to a posting by a Proton contractor on the Astronomy.ru web forum, a steering
mechanism in the propulsion system of the third stage caused the failure.

This does  not seem to be an intercept theory.
I will keep the option open for a space junk interception.

Some points..
1. The launch and flight paramteres was copy book correct(almost a successful launch).
2. The vehilce gained enormous speeds of about mach 20-22.
 Altitude 160 Kms (Orbital height, if this was soyuz then it would have been successful launch .. he he  ).
3. Present data (as I gave in previous posts) 20 seconds before(T+540sec) the steering engine (got aborted,
totally malfunctioned). (As informed by a Proton contractor)
4. But now your concept of interception becomes really tricky.Most of the satellites would immediately disintegrate after Kinetic intercpetion attacks.
  This vehicle almost continued it sflight path for 20 seconds.
 After that there was a 3rd stage automatic shutdown and not a 3rd stage disintegration as would have been the case
  of interception


Finally let the investigation continue and we will come to know more in bits and pieces.
But finally I will not rule out anything because U.S really does act with hostile intent,especially in these times.
Any incident with Russian rocket will become suspicious in these times.

rokot is owned by EU , 51%   

Turning Away from ISS, Russia Announces New Space Strategy

Russia is developing a new space strategy to replace the International Space Station, or ISS, in 2020 and has tapped the Chinese, Indian and European space agencies as potential partners as it pursues lunar and deep-space exploration projects.

Speaking at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum on Thursday, Sergei Savelyev announced the creation of the new space strategy, which Roscosmos is now developing in cooperation with the Russian Academy of Sciences, Interfax reported.

For 20 years the U.S. and Russia have quietly cooperated in space, developing a strong relationship aboard the Mir space station and the International Space Station, or ISS. But last week, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin threw the future of the vaunted U.S.-Russian space partnership for a loop by announcing that Russia was no longer interested in extending cooperation with NASA aboard ISS beyond 2020 and would instead focus on new projects with other partners.

Russia quickly followed through on its statements, releasing a $52 billion space program aimed at modernizing the domestic space industry and then signing a space cooperation agreement with China on Monday.

Savelyev on Thursday reiterated Russia's interest in new relationships in space. "Russia is open to partnerships with all countries. The well-known sanctions lists, which came in recent months, show that we are interdependent," Savelyev said in a reference to U.S. sanctions against Russian officials and companies following Russia's annexation of Crimea.

"The deterioration of Russian enterprises because of sanctions could lead to the loss of our ability to meet our commitments to ISS," Savelyev warned. Russian rockets are currently the only means of transporting astronauts and cosmonauts to ISS, so harming the Russian space industry would in effect boomerang back on the U.S.

Savelyev on Thursday did not expand on on the content of the new space strategy, but did say that the moon was among its possible targets. "We need a new step in the development of manned space programs," Savelyev said, adding that the development of new manned spacecraft allowing Russia to move beyond low earth orbit, and eventually into deep space, would be necessary.

Savelyev then called on all nations engaged in space exploration to put aside their political differences and cooperate, saying that the world needs to prevent the potentially catastrophic outcome of an arms race in space.

Meanwhile, NASA spokesman Allard Beutel continued to affirm the agency's position on the impact of recent political turmoil on U.S.-Russian space cooperation. "Ongoing operations on the ISS continue on a normal basis …We have not received any official notification from the Government of Russia on any changes in our space cooperation at this point," he told The Moscow Times in an e-mail.

rokot is owned by EU , 51%

So what you are saying is that the EU bought 51% of the SS-19 Stilleto ICBM from Russia?

Why do you think that is amusing?

navyfield wrote:rokot is owned by EU , 51%   

So what? EU can lose all of that in a blink of an eye if they continued on with their pressure on Russia, and they knew that hence why so little in sanctions. They spent the money to own that stake, and they know they can lose all of it.