Russian Auto Industry

Someone sent me this photo of a Lada Niva from Lebanon.
It looks like it is the version called Urban which has revised grill and bumpers.

Apparently the first batch of cars have arrived and the Lada showroom will open very soon just north of Beirut.

TheArmenian wrote:Someone sent me this photo of a Lada Niva from Lebanon.
It looks like it is the version called Urban which has revised grill and bumpers.

Apparently the first batch of cars have arrived and the Lada showroom will open very soon just north of Beirut.

This vehicle sums up all that is wrong with Avtovaz and indigenous Russian automobile industry. What sort of retards
do not update the shell of a car in 30 years? I would love to own one with modern styling and the original robust
suspension. The GM Niva is not the Niva, it's another POS with a POS suspension so please don't bring that up.

In the western market all you have is routine updates to the styling of the body and revision of the cup holders but
the suspensions are all shit even for so-called SUVs. The Niva was built for rough roads and guess what, there are
plenty in the west and in big cities.

kvs wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:Someone sent me this photo of a Lada Niva from Lebanon.
It looks like it is the version called Urban which has revised grill and bumpers.

Apparently the first batch of cars have arrived and the Lada showroom will open very soon just north of Beirut.

This vehicle sums up all that is wrong with Avtovaz and indigenous Russian automobile industry.   What sort of retards
do not update the shell of a car in 30 years?   I would love to own one with modern styling and the original robust
suspension.  The GM Niva is not the Niva, it's another POS with a POS suspension so please don't bring that up.  

In the western market all you have is routine updates to the styling of the body and revision of the cup holders but
the suspensions are all shit even for so-called SUVs.   The Niva was built for rough roads and guess what, there are
plenty in the west and in big cities.  

Ironically the "Western OEM's" are/were all hell bent on the Neo-Retro BS. Look At Fiat, Ford, Chevy, VW. This is totally fine for such a task (the NIVA is nothing more than the damn Jeep Wrangler (that has evolved backwards though). It's an Icon, period.

UAZ Patriot 4x4


Lada Vetsa

AVTOVAZ launched the first pick-up

Two pick-up on the basis of grants, is preparing to assemble Lada 4 × 4 with the body structure assembled poluramnoy The UPC Lada Priora. Collected pickups Lada Granta will be sent for homologation in engineering service of JSC "AVTOVAZ". Later, the plant will start production of pickup trucks on the development of components and assemblies without Lada 4 × 4. As the director of the UPC Lada Priora Andrej Barinov, the first phase of testing the possibility of release of models on the main conveyor is complete. Production of pickups moved to welding bodybuilder production at AvtoVAZ Lada Priora with subsidiary facilities "Vis-Auto". The company explained this decision to a desire to optimize the production process, improve product quality and reduce logistics costs. The company also noted that the sale of special vehicles through an extensive dealer network Lada can contribute to an increase in demand. wrote:

Not bad... in New Zealand and Australia these light vehicles are called Utes (pronounced Yoots)... short for Utility truck.

Avtovaz puts LADA XRay on sale; plans to sell up to 25,000 cars in 2016

So far, LADA XRay is available only in the Russian market. Exports to Hungary and Egypt may start soon

SAMARA, February 14 /TASS/. Avtovaz, one of Russia’s biggest car makers, is starting the sales of its new LADA XRay model in Russia: 124 dealing centers will open in 57 cities at 11:00 local time.

"About 16,000-20,000 cars are to be sold according to a pessimistic scenario. The sales will increase to about 25,000 cars under an optimistic scenario, the plant’s press service told TASS.

So far, LADA XRay is available only in the Russian market. Exports to Hungary and Egypt may start soon.

Lada XRay may be competitive to such models as hatchback KIA Rio, Hyundai Solaris and Renault Sandero Stepway.

The cheapest XRay model will cost 589,000 rubles ($7,485) and the most expensive - 723,000 rubles ($9,188).


More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/856644

George1 wrote:Avtovaz puts LADA XRay on sale; plans to sell up to 25,000 cars in 2016

So far, LADA XRay is available only in the Russian market. Exports to Hungary and Egypt may start soon

SAMARA, February 14 /TASS/. Avtovaz, one of Russia’s biggest car makers, is starting the sales of its new LADA XRay model in Russia: 124 dealing centers will open in 57 cities at 11:00 local time.

"About 16,000-20,000 cars are to be sold according to a pessimistic scenario. The sales will increase to about 25,000 cars under an optimistic scenario, the plant’s press service told TASS.

So far, LADA XRay is available only in the Russian market. Exports to Hungary and Egypt may start soon.

Lada XRay may be competitive to such models as hatchback KIA Rio, Hyundai Solaris and Renault Sandero Stepway.

The cheapest XRay model will cost 589,000 rubles ($7,485) and the most expensive - 723,000 rubles ($9,188).


More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/856644

So Avtovaz uses the exchange rate of the ruble to set the price of the domestically produced cars.   And then we want to know where inflation in
Russia comes from.   This is insane racketeering "bizness".   The Russian government needs to pass some laws on this sort of racketeering and
send some corporate bosses to the slammer or a work colony in Siberia.

Now now, not so fast.  They use the dollar comparrison due to media sensation, nothing else.  If you seen prices prior to all of this for various types of cars, you will notice that the price given for a new car isnt actually bad.  Expensive somewhat but not bad.  I have seen prior to this vehicles like Patriot going for over 600,000 rubles as an example.  This type of vehicle is more luxury than anything else (when comparing other vehicles on market) and is somewhat costly at first.

Russia's major car manufacturer switches to shortened work week

Russia's largest carmaker group Avtovaz was at risk of putting on hold operational activities due to large losses and difficulties associated with the repayment of debt

SAMARA, February 15. /TASS/. Russia's largest passenger car manufacturer Avtovaz announced transition to a four-day work week for six months, the company said Monday.

It was first reported about Avtovaz possible switching to a four-day working week after a meeting of the Board of Directors of the company on November 30, 2015. "The Board of Directors focused on the main areas of improvement and its adaptation to the current market conditions," the company’s press service said.

It was reported earlier, Russia's largest carmaker group Avtovaz was at risk of putting on hold operational activities due to large losses and difficulties associated with the repayment of debt. The auditor - Ernst&Young - said that the losses of Avtovaz amounted to 73.85 bln rubles ($932.5 mln) in 2015 (increasing 2.9-fold), as well as short-term liabilities at the end of the year exceeded the current assets by 67.78 bln rubles ($855.2 mln), which caused the auditor to doubt the ability of Avtovaz to continue its operational activity.

Avtovaz said it breached covenants on more than 43 bln rubles ($542.63 mln) of loans as of December 31 and received waivers from lenders including Rosbank, Garanti Bank Moscow and Societe Generale. The company also noted risks and said it needed shareholder support.

At the end of the year long-term liabilities of the group amounted to 48.9 bln rubles ($617.1 mln), which is 67% more that in 2014.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/856737

Its funny but Renault-Nissan owns avtovaz so tjis is now their own fault.  Guess shouldnt have taken all those loans out.  I think it was stupid to sell 100% of the company.

Regardless, as long as people still have work, thats good.

Funny enough, UAZ is doing better than before and Avtovaz Granta is still selling quite well.  At this point, I think its best if they look to sell some stock elsewhere and as well, look at witholding new development till debts are paid off.  For instance, try to increase sales of Granta and offer different packages.  Avtovaz is doing far better than it ever has and yet still racks up a massive debt.  Sure sounds like the Canadian car manufacturers.

sepheronx wrote:Now now, not so fast.  They use the dollar comparrison due to media sensation, nothing else.  If you seen prices prior to all of this for various types of cars, you will notice that the price given for a new car isnt actually bad.  Expensive somewhat but not bad.  I have seen prior to this vehicles like Patriot going for over 600,000 rubles as an example.  This type of vehicle is more luxury than anything else (when comparing other vehicles on market) and is somewhat costly at first.

I am looking at the price in dollars in 2013 and now. They maintained the dollar price and not the ruble price. The ruble price has basically
gone up by 100%. I know these are new models, but they are being targeted at a certain market segment where the price is around $10,000.
So the Avtovaz pricing is BS since these cars are not imports.

https://www.rt.com/business/lada-avtovaz-europe-cars-311/

The above gives the price range for the Lada Granta in 2012.

kvs wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Now now, not so fast.  They use the dollar comparrison due to media sensation, nothing else.  If you seen prices prior to all of this for various types of cars, you will notice that the price given for a new car isnt actually bad.  Expensive somewhat but not bad.  I have seen prior to this vehicles like Patriot going for over 600,000 rubles as an example.  This type of vehicle is more luxury than anything else (when comparing other vehicles on market) and is somewhat costly at first.

I am looking at the price in dollars in 2013 and now.  They maintained the dollar price and not the ruble price.   The ruble price has basically
gone up by 100%.  I know these are new models, but they are being targeted at a certain market segment where the price is around $10,000.
So the Avtovaz pricing is BS since these cars are not imports.

https://www.rt.com/business/lada-avtovaz-europe-cars-311/

The above gives the price range for the Lada Granta in 2012.  

This is different than other models too you know. Nothing they made before.  More luxurious.  lets wait and see how well it does.  Granta and such is still cheap.

kvs wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Now now, not so fast.  They use the dollar comparrison due to media sensation, nothing else.  If you seen prices prior to all of this for various types of cars, you will notice that the price given for a new car isnt actually bad.  Expensive somewhat but not bad.  I have seen prior to this vehicles like Patriot going for over 600,000 rubles as an example.  This type of vehicle is more luxury than anything else (when comparing other vehicles on market) and is somewhat costly at first.

I am looking at the price in dollars in 2013 and now.  They maintained the dollar price and not the ruble price.   The ruble price has basically
gone up by 100%.  I know these are new models, but they are being targeted at a certain market segment where the price is around $10,000.
So the Avtovaz pricing is BS since these cars are not imports.

https://www.rt.com/business/lada-avtovaz-europe-cars-311/

The above gives the price range for the Lada Granta in 2012.  

The car has some foreign made parts. It is not 100% domestic.
You must adjust the cost increase accordingly.

TheArmenian wrote:

kvs wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Now now, not so fast.  They use the dollar comparrison due to media sensation, nothing else.  If you seen prices prior to all of this for various types of cars, you will notice that the price given for a new car isnt actually bad.  Expensive somewhat but not bad.  I have seen prior to this vehicles like Patriot going for over 600,000 rubles as an example.  This type of vehicle is more luxury than anything else (when comparing other vehicles on market) and is somewhat costly at first.

I am looking at the price in dollars in 2013 and now.  They maintained the dollar price and not the ruble price.   The ruble price has basically
gone up by 100%.  I know these are new models, but they are being targeted at a certain market segment where the price is around $10,000.
So the Avtovaz pricing is BS since these cars are not imports.

https://www.rt.com/business/lada-avtovaz-europe-cars-311/

The above gives the price range for the Lada Granta in 2012.  

The car has some foreign made parts. It is not 100% domestic.
You must adjust the cost increase accordingly.

Nowhere near a 100% markup in rubles from these components. It is rather clear that Avtovaz is using "international"
prices and is collecting dollars and not rubles for its cars. The wooden ruble phobia has not left Russia. After 2014
you can see hordes of companies and people converting their rubles to dollars. They are all idiots. They should have
done that in 2013 and not after the forex "devaluation" (it is not a devaluation in any real sense).

There is? Last I checked, there was barely a movement for conversion.

As well, there cannot be a 100% markup unless there was a previous xray model, which there isnt.

It would have to be compared to a granta now vs then.  If we have those numbers, good.

sepheronx wrote:There is? Last I checked, there was barely a movement for conversion.

As well, there cannot be a 100% markup unless there was a previous xray model, which there isnt.

It would have to be compared to a granta now vs then.  If we have those numbers, good.

One of the primary reasons for the drop in the ruble forex from 2014 and into 2015 has been the
massive dumping of rubles for dollars. Perhaps most of this has been driven by the paydown of
foreign debt, but it is also due to the routine response pattern of many in Russia to treat the
ruble as worthless. These idiots actually think dollars are worth something. These are the idiots
who took out dollar mortgages.

The Xray is too small and too little of a design increment to merit a 100% markup. If the Granta
was going for $10,000 in 2012, then the Xray is not worth $20,000 by any stretch of the imagination.
It's not in the class of the Nissan Altima, for example. The numbers tell me all I need to know, I am
not sure why you are so keen to defend Avtovaz. Back in the 1990s it was part of Berezovsky's
mafia empire and it also has the legacy Soviet worker mentality of "pretend to work and steal all you
can". It should have been liquidated a long time ago. Bankruptcy would have cleared the way for
is assets (even if old, they are worth something) to have been used better by some other company
not entangled in all sorts of legacy sh*t.

The luxury model of Xray is selling for 580K or roughly 9k usd.  Cheaper model is roughly $7K.  Lada Granta basic sells for 303K rubles still, which is cheap.

Avtovaz would do better to make a cheaper SUV and keep up with Granta (or use vesta to make a more luxury granta) and try to share as much as you can in components to make it cheaper.  Right now, its ideal to cut back on the R&D and pay off debt.  After debt is paid off, they can sell it probably even cheaper to drive up the low budget segmant and gain more.  That is why Kia is now doing very well in Russia for example.

higurashihougi wrote:When the wars end, business will resume as normal.

Hopefully.

https://www.rt.com/business/333453-avtovaz-cars-sales-resume/

Russia’s flagship automaker AvtoVaz has confirmed plans on restart sales of its automobiles in Syria and Lebanon.

“AvtoVaz intends to begin exporting vehicles to Syria and Lebanon with the help of our partner Nissan,” a source from the company’s press center told RIA Novosti.

The exact dates and numbers are not yet known, but AvtoVaz expects to return to the Syrian market when the situation there is normalized.

Not sure how many cars they can sell there tho...but not many. Majority of ppl there struggles to obtain basic needs.

Militarov wrote:
Not sure how many cars they can sell there tho...but not many. Majority of ppl there struggles to obtain basic needs.

Don't know where you are getting your info from but Lebanon's GDP per capita is at least 40% higher than Serbia's .
Perhaps you are referring to war-torn Syria?!

In all cases I do not expect any significant Russian car sales in Lebanon. Historically, the country has been pro-west with no Russian influence to speak of. Least of all Russian products and cars.
Syria is another issue. People have a low income and can only afford cheap. The country is socialist and maintained decade old pro-east ties.

william.boutros wrote:

Militarov wrote:
Not sure how many cars they can sell there tho...but not many. Majority of ppl there struggles to obtain basic needs.

Don't know where you are getting your info from but Lebanon's GDP per capita is at least 40% higher than Serbia's .
Perhaps you are referring to war-torn Syria?!

In all cases I do not expect any significant Russian car sales in Lebanon. Historically, the country has been pro-west with no Russian influence to speak of. Least of all Russian products and cars.
Syria is another issue. People have a low income and can only afford cheap. The country is socialist and maintained decade old pro-east ties.

Lada costs like...6000 euros lets say. Average nominal GDP in Lebanon is about 8-9. You do the math. How many they will be able to sell. Maybe couple hundred to upper lvl mid class, those with even slightly better income wouldnt even look at Lada when you can get for slighty more money something South Korean or Italian. I dont think organising export to sell yearly 300 cars is move of the decade. Those poor cant afford it anyways.

Also Lebanon is "developing economy", which means majority of population does not have even third of that GDP you see in statistics.

When its about Serbian GDP, half of our economy is in gray area which...does not rly end up being in those statistics. But on other hand i expect soon Zimbabwe to overcome Serbia in terms of economy.

Militarov wrote:

william.boutros wrote:

Militarov wrote:
Not sure how many cars they can sell there tho...but not many. Majority of ppl there struggles to obtain basic needs.

Don't know where you are getting your info from but Lebanon's GDP per capita is at least 40% higher than Serbia's .
Perhaps you are referring to war-torn Syria?!

In all cases I do not expect any significant Russian car sales in Lebanon. Historically, the country has been pro-west with no Russian influence to speak of. Least of all Russian products and cars.
Syria is another issue. People have a low income and can only afford cheap. The country is socialist and maintained decade old pro-east ties.

Lada costs like...6000 euros lets say. Average nominal GDP in Lebanon is about 8-9. You do the math. How many they will be able to sell. Maybe couple hundred to upper lvl mid class, those with even slightly better income wouldnt even look at Lada when you can get for slighty more money something South Korean or Italian. I dont think organising export to sell yearly 300 cars is move of the decade. Those poor cant afford it anyways.

Also Lebanon is "developing economy", which means majority of population does not have even third of that GDP you see in statistics.
When its about Serbian GDP, half of our economy is in gray area which...does not rly end up being in those statistics. But on other hand i expect soon Zimbabwe to overcome Serbia in terms of economy.

Well buddy,
Cars sold annually in Lebanon are around 80,000 and 100,000 cars for a 4 million population.
Almost half of those cars are large in size second hand cars for an average cost pre-tax (which can reach up to 40%) of around 12,000-15,000$
The other half being mainly new and smaller cars of Korean, Japanese and French orign consecutively.
Do not worry about the grey economy. Lebanon is not USA under Obama.
There is a notable absence of Italian cars due to their poor reliability record.

At 7000 dollar + 3000 $ tax Lada would be competing with the cheapest cars on the market. Kia and Hyundai which have a combined market share of 16,000 brand new cars. Lada however needs to fix its reputation and establish proper service centres for parts at a low cost. Coupling with Nissan dealer is a good step. He is well established and has been loosing market share ever since Korean cars became more reliable and with an attractive design. Lada needs to take care that established Lebanese car dealers sometimes buy car brands in order to eliminate them from competition with no intent for marketing the vehicle.