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The only true interest we have for Ukraine is to protect ethnic Russians. We should annex Crimea and let them do whatever they want.
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ali.a.r
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41 posters
The Situation in the Ukraine. #1
Admin- Posts : 2926
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Airbornewolf- Posts : 1523
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etaepsilonk wrote:TR1 wrote:
Uh, no. There are plenty of other avenues for Russia to batter GEorgia into retreat.
Militarily Ukraine would be a cakewalk.
Just the international condemnation would be a problem.
The goal of 888 war was not to batter Georgia, but primarily, to recapture Tskhinvali and surrounding regions.
Remember, this town is center of what little business S. Ossetia has. Second biggest town is Java with 1500 people. So, loss of Tskhinvali would have easily meant complete S. Ossetian dependence on it's bigger brother in the north.
With regards o Ukraine, yes, beating Ukraine's military would be a cakewalk, just like it was a cakewalk for ISAF to beat Taliban in 2001See where I'm heading?
i agree with TR1's posts concerning Georgia and millitary of Ukraine. Russia would overwhelm any Ukranian resistance with relative light losses. but indeed the international condemnation would be the reason why they never even would think about it. they are not going to throw away the goodwill they build up in the last decade by invading a country they can deal with on alternative ways.
and do not confuse Taliban with any sort of national organised army. the two are worlds apart from each other. not to mention the geographical location and features of Afghanistan, politics involved, local population, foreign fighters and etc etc etc.
Airbornewolf- Posts : 1523
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Vladimir79 wrote:The only true interest we have for Ukraine is to protect ethnic Russians. We should annex Crimea and let them do whatever they want.
sounds acceptable and reasonable to me.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
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Join date : 2013-11-20
Vladimir79 wrote:The only true interest we have for Ukraine is to protect ethnic Russians. We should annex Crimea and let them do whatever they want.
I already posted a link, where Crimean Rada stated, that they want to remain a part of Ukraine. You cannot be sure, that Crimeans themselves would support this annexation.
GarryB- Posts : 40518
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So, Ukraine for ABM site is not a very convenient location.
You seem to be forgetting that the UK and France have nuclear missiles aimed at Russia... and also an ABM system in the Ukraine could be used to intercept ABM missiles being launched from Poland to intercept Russian missiles headed for the UK and France and Brussels.
And BTW that article you posted TR-1... very funny...
Josh Earnest, the deputy White House press secretary, said in a statement: “We urge outside actors in the region to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, end provocative rhetoric and actions, support democratically established transitional governing structures, and use their influence in support of unity, peace and an inclusive path forward.”
Josh Earnest asks Russia to act in the opposite way the US acts...
The only true interest we have for Ukraine is to protect ethnic Russians. We should annex Crimea and let them do whatever they want.
The principles of democracy and peace should be respected... a free and fair referendum in the Crimea on independence from the Ukraine should be held immediately and the results respected by all parties... of course that will never happen because the likely result would not suit the EU or the west or the Ukraine.
Democracy when it suits the US.
and do not confuse Taliban with any sort of national organised army.
If ISAF had killed OBL in the first week of fighting they could have declared victory and left by the end of the month... they should have asked me... I suggested he was in Pakistan years ago.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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All Nikita's fault. Crimea never had any business being Ukrainian.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
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GarryB wrote:So, Ukraine for ABM site is not a very convenient location.
You seem to be forgetting that the UK and France have nuclear missiles aimed at Russia... and also an ABM system in the Ukraine could be used to intercept ABM missiles being launched from Poland to intercept Russian missiles headed for the UK and France and Brussels.
You seem to be forgetting, that ABM in Europe is not meant to protect Europe
To TR1:
"All Nikita's fault. Crimea never had any business being Ukrainian. "
Well, if you don't want Russian lands to be handed over to the Ukraine, then you should stop electing Ukrainians as your leaders
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
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Of course not, who cares about EU anyway, specially when the provider of this ABM shield is on another continent.
Airbornewolf- Posts : 1523
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[/quote]
If ISAF had killed OBL in the first week of fighting they could have declared victory and left by the end of the month... they should have asked me... I suggested he was in Pakistan years ago.[/quote]
of course he was there, witch idiot is going to stand around and wait for them to show up and "your last known place of residence?".
.
and it was not ISAF that had the mission of killing Osama, the americans had their own "cewl" operation for that. "Operation Enduring Freedom". i am still not sure if it was meanth on a sarcastic way or the jerks actually where serious with that name.
i and other "ISAF" troops had the task of keeping the regular Taliban busy and socialising with locals. please note, actual description of task did not add up to actual reality going on there.
and there was never even a chance for victory, killing one guy is not going to change that either. it was just an excuse for the U.S to invade Afghanistan.
but...this all is another topic. and not one i rather repeat discussing here again.
If ISAF had killed OBL in the first week of fighting they could have declared victory and left by the end of the month... they should have asked me... I suggested he was in Pakistan years ago.[/quote]
of course he was there, witch idiot is going to stand around and wait for them to show up and "your last known place of residence?".
. and it was not ISAF that had the mission of killing Osama, the americans had their own "cewl" operation for that. "Operation Enduring Freedom". i am still not sure if it was meanth on a sarcastic way or the jerks actually where serious with that name.
i and other "ISAF" troops had the task of keeping the regular Taliban busy and socialising with locals. please note, actual description of task did not add up to actual reality going on there
. and there was never even a chance for victory, killing one guy is not going to change that either. it was just an excuse for the U.S to invade Afghanistan.
but...this all is another topic. and not one i rather repeat discussing here again.
Admin- Posts : 2926
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etaepsilonk wrote:
I already posted a link, where Crimean Rada stated, that they want to remain a part of Ukraine. You cannot be sure, that Crimeans themselves would support this annexation.
It doesn't matter, when ethnic atrocities start falling on Russians we will act.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
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Join date : 2013-11-20
Vladimir79 wrote:etaepsilonk wrote:
I already posted a link, where Crimean Rada stated, that they want to remain a part of Ukraine. You cannot be sure, that Crimeans themselves would support this annexation.
It doesn't matter, when ethnic atrocities start falling on Russians we will act.
When ethnic atrocities start falling on Russians, then opposition to banderas' "government" will form up among the Russians for sure. But the thing is, such ethnic atrocities haven't started yet, thank God.
You see, for military intervention, some rebel movements, or efficient political organisations among anti-Maidanists are needed. Without those, any large scale Russian intervention is IMPOSSIBLE.
To airbornewolf:
Agreed. OBL's death wouldn't have changed anything.
Heck, he's dead for free years now, did Taliban lost? NOPE.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
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For a little entertainment, let me show, my dear non-western members, what kind of "information" our "media" throws in our faces daily: (Warning: for God's sake, don't even think about taking any of this seriously)
http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/world/musis-del-ukrainos-koki-pavidala-igaus-rusijos-pyktis.d?id=64132648
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And here's a much better article, the one I can agree with in almost every aspect:
http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140226/187910994/Russias-Best-Bet-in-Ukraine-Sitting-on-the-Fence-for-Now.html
http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/world/musis-del-ukrainos-koki-pavidala-igaus-rusijos-pyktis.d?id=64132648
----------------
And here's a much better article, the one I can agree with in almost every aspect:
http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140226/187910994/Russias-Best-Bet-in-Ukraine-Sitting-on-the-Fence-for-Now.html
calripson- Posts : 753
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Join date : 2013-10-26
Interesting that Crimean Tartars would riot in support of Ukrainian fascist nationalists who want to ban and suppress the use of other languages and cultures - including one would presume Tartar. Not surprising for any reader of Mr. Brzezinski. The demographics of ethnic Russians are unfavorable in Crimea (and everywhere else). Each year their percent of the population drops. Expect to see plenty of Tartar nationalism in Tartarstan in about 10 years (and every other ethnicity under the sun). You see, Mr. Brzezinski has written extensively of the need for peoples dignity (setting up microstates) with Russia in mind. No microstates for Ossetia or the Crimea mind you.
The key weakness of Russia is demographic. Literally, Russian women aborted (and continue at a lesser rate) to abort their future. From the mid 1960s through the 1990s up to 2.5 million babies were aborted just in Russia (not the whole USSR). That's 75 million more people from age 24 to 54 that would be around today. Russia would be in a far different place with those demographics today.
The key weakness of Russia is demographic. Literally, Russian women aborted (and continue at a lesser rate) to abort their future. From the mid 1960s through the 1990s up to 2.5 million babies were aborted just in Russia (not the whole USSR). That's 75 million more people from age 24 to 54 that would be around today. Russia would be in a far different place with those demographics today.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
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A little insight:
http://donetskie.com/novosti/2014/02/27/s-krymom-uzhe-vse-v-poryadke-v-rossiyu-nikto-ne-idet
It is said that in this rally were about 3 thousand Russians, and 12-13 thousand Tatars.
Call me a conspiracy nutjob, but I think, that someone's may be behind those Tatars.
---------------
Also, a little compilation of videos from the same demonstration.
http://donbass.ua/news/ukraine/2014/02/26/dezha-vju-pered-krymskim-parlamentom-gorjat-kostry-i-strojatsja-barrikady-foto-video.html
Now, could anyone answer me, does every Crimean Tatar has a flag under his bed?
http://i0.wp.com/komtv.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BhKMuejIgAAgrlt.jpg?resize=599%2C398
http://donetskie.com/novosti/2014/02/27/s-krymom-uzhe-vse-v-poryadke-v-rossiyu-nikto-ne-idet
It is said that in this rally were about 3 thousand Russians, and 12-13 thousand Tatars.
Call me a conspiracy nutjob, but I think, that someone's may be behind those Tatars.
---------------
Also, a little compilation of videos from the same demonstration.
http://donbass.ua/news/ukraine/2014/02/26/dezha-vju-pered-krymskim-parlamentom-gorjat-kostry-i-strojatsja-barrikady-foto-video.html
Now, could anyone answer me, does every Crimean Tatar has a flag under his bed?
http://i0.wp.com/komtv.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BhKMuejIgAAgrlt.jpg?resize=599%2C398
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Burning Russian flags eh?
I wish Russia would raise gas prices so these fucks would have to burn something more substantial to keep warm.
I wish Russia would raise gas prices so these fucks would have to burn something more substantial to keep warm.
calripson- Posts : 753
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Russia should start relocating critical industry from non-Russian areas now. It is as obvious as day the CIA/MI6 (Soros) are experts at stirring up ethnic/religious unrest. (How do you think the Brits controlled the empire for some many centuries). Mark me words, these pretty Tartar flags (not coincidentally in the colors of the Kazakh flag) will be coming to Kazan soon. The expected Russian crackdown, on Tartars and Bashkirs too, will be used as a wedge with Kazakhstan. Is the FSB that stupid that they can't see the game plan ? Frankly, the whole approach towards Ukraine and Belarussia and the whole former USSR is so disjointed and haphazard it leaves me scratching me head.
sepheronx- Posts : 8839
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calripson wrote:Russia should start relocating critical industry from non-Russian areas now. It is as obvious as day the CIA/MI6 (Soros) are experts at stirring up ethnic/religious unrest. (How do you think the Brits controlled the empire for some many centuries). Mark me words, these pretty Tartar flags (not coincidentally in the colors of the Kazakh flag) will be coming to Kazan soon. The expected Russian crackdown, on Tartars and Bashkirs too, will be used as a wedge with Kazakhstan. Is the FSB that stupid that they can't see the game plan ? Frankly, the whole approach towards Ukraine and Belarussia and the whole former USSR is so disjointed and haphazard it leaves me scratching me head.
It is obvious and I wonder what the Russians are doing about it. Kazakhstan is an important ally of Russia, both militarily and economically. Of course they will try something. They already have for the longest time. Best bet is to still continue on controlled flow of foreigners and organizations entering places like Tatarstan and alike. The best that Russia can do at the mean time is continuing support of the other nations, invest in their own agents in these countries to improve relations both with government and people, and invest more into these countries. I wager that Belarus is next on the list for EU and USA to overthrow Lukashenko.
GarryB- Posts : 40518
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You seem to be forgetting, that ABM in Europe is not meant to protect Europe
Yeah yeah... it is to stop Iranian and North Korean ICBMs but it wont be used against Russian missiles... though they wont put that in writing even though you can take their word it is true... I am not forgetting who this system is intended to protect, I am also not stupid enough to think they would not try to use it against any BM threat from anywhere.
and there was never even a chance for victory, killing one guy is not going to change that either. it was just an excuse for the U.S to invade Afghanistan.
Victory is what you make it... declare goals that are achievable... achieve them declare victory and then leave.
Agreed. OBL's death wouldn't have changed anything.
Heck, he's dead for free years now, did Taliban lost? NOPE.
The US and her coalition of the stupid lost because they made it about fixing Afghanistan... that was something all the bombs in the world are never going to fix.
macedonian- Posts : 1067
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Location : Skopje, Macedonia - Скопје, Македонија
Seems the games are about to begin:
BBC Link
BBC wrote:Ukraine's security forces have been put on alert after government buildings in the Russian-majority Crimea region were seized by armed men.
The Russian flag had been raised over both buildings in the capital, Simferopol.
BBC Link
collegeboy16- Posts : 1135
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time to push back...
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
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Yeah, looks like a couple of dozen paramilitaries kave taken over Crimean Rada.
Now, not letting Tatars, or any pro- Maidan people near them is an absolute must.
Are there any Russian forces in Simferopol? I'd recommend putting 1-2 BTRs near the parliament "just in case".
--------------------
Here's that NATO leader says:
"12 hours. 30 minutes. NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Thursday he was concerned about the events in the Ukrainian Crimea peninsula and urged Russia to refrain from actions that might create tensions and lead to misunderstandings, "published by Reuters.
As suspected, a pro-Russian attitude radicals occupied the Crimea region of the Ukraine government and parliament buildings and raised the tricolor flag of the Russian Federation.
"I am concerned about the events in the Crimea. Urge Russia to refrain from any action which might create tensions and lead to misunderstandings, "-" Twitter "Rasmussen wrote."
Now, not letting Tatars, or any pro- Maidan people near them is an absolute must.
Are there any Russian forces in Simferopol? I'd recommend putting 1-2 BTRs near the parliament "just in case".
--------------------
Here's that NATO leader says:
"12 hours. 30 minutes. NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Thursday he was concerned about the events in the Ukrainian Crimea peninsula and urged Russia to refrain from actions that might create tensions and lead to misunderstandings, "published by Reuters.
As suspected, a pro-Russian attitude radicals occupied the Crimea region of the Ukraine government and parliament buildings and raised the tricolor flag of the Russian Federation.
"I am concerned about the events in the Crimea. Urge Russia to refrain from any action which might create tensions and lead to misunderstandings, "-" Twitter "Rasmussen wrote."
Last edited by etaepsilonk on Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
macedonian- Posts : 1067
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Location : Skopje, Macedonia - Скопје, Македонија
Things moving pretty fast in Crimea.
One can't keep track...
Not sure how this ends, but I hope for the best for all parties involved (well, almost all).
One can't keep track...
Not sure how this ends, but I hope for the best for all parties involved (well, almost all).
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
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Join date : 2013-11-20
"11 hours. 05 minutes. Russian fighter jets to the country's western border patrol stated in combat mode, the Interfax news agency on Thursday quoted the Ministry of Defence report.
"Fighter constantly patrolling the border regions of airspace - the report said. - From the moment of receiving the highest levels of the military situation in the signal, the Western Military District aviation re-located to operational airfields. ""
Anyone has a better information on this?
"Fighter constantly patrolling the border regions of airspace - the report said. - From the moment of receiving the highest levels of the military situation in the signal, the Western Military District aviation re-located to operational airfields. ""
Anyone has a better information on this?
macedonian- Posts : 1067
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Location : Skopje, Macedonia - Скопје, Македонија
etaepsilonk wrote:"11 hours. 05 minutes. Russian fighter jets to the country's western border patrol stated in combat mode, the Interfax news agency on Thursday quoted the Ministry of Defence report.
"Fighter constantly patrolling the border regions of airspace - the report said. - From the moment of receiving the highest levels of the military situation in the signal, the Western Military District aviation re-located to operational airfields. ""
Anyone has a better information on this?
Yep:
Interfax
Interfax wrote:Russian fighter jets along western borders put on high alert during drills - Defense Ministry
MOSCOW. Feb 27 (Interfax-AVN) - The crews of fighter jets deployed in Russia's Western Military Districts have been placed on high alert as part of surprise combat drills ordered by Russian President and Supreme Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Putin on Wednesday, the Defense Ministry said.
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Edit:
BBC:
Ukraine warns Russia against 'aggression' in Crimea
Link
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Second edit:
Ukraine summons Russian envoy Andrei Vorobyov - Ukrainian Foreign Ministry
Voice of Russia wrote:Russian charge d’affairs in Kiev Andrey Vorobiev has been summoned to the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign affairs. Mr. Vorobiev was insistently urged to hold bilateral consultations. This is according to a statement issued by the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign affairs.
Link Voice of Russia
Last edited by macedonian on Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
Points : 687
Join date : 2013-11-20
Oh, I see.
And, do you think think those drills were co-incidential, or planned in light of Ukrainian situation?
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Allegedly, those are paras who captured the Rada:
http://img.lrytas.lt/show_foto/?id=1016859&s=11&f=4
And, do you think think those drills were co-incidential, or planned in light of Ukrainian situation?
----------------------------------
Allegedly, those are paras who captured the Rada:
http://img.lrytas.lt/show_foto/?id=1016859&s=11&f=4
Last edited by etaepsilonk on Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total