Russia - Argentina cooperation: News

Eugenio Argentina wrote:Kirchnerism (which ruled for 12 years, 2003 - 2015) now left its successor: the Frente de Todos.
This political line (sociodemocratic, no matter how Peronist it is), beyond the speeches, does not have the will to get its feet off the plate.

what is "Peronism"? it would be an interesting subject for discussion

George1 wrote:

Eugenio Argentina wrote:Kirchnerism (which ruled for 12 years, 2003 - 2015) now left its successor: the Frente de Todos.
This political line (sociodemocratic, no matter how Peronist it is), beyond the speeches, does not have the will to get its feet off the plate.

what is "Peronism"? it would be an interesting subject for discussion

Peronism is the Movement that did the most for Argentina, politically, socially, culturally, militarily, economically, etc, etc.
Furthermore, it is the political identity of the popular majorities.
But we are in a military forum and it would not be fair to occupy it in this debate.
Although there are certain people who like to promote Byzantine discussions.

Eugenio Argentina wrote:

George1 wrote:

Eugenio Argentina wrote:Kirchnerism (which ruled for 12 years, 2003 - 2015) now left its successor: the Frente de Todos.
This political line (sociodemocratic, no matter how Peronist it is), beyond the speeches, does not have the will to get its feet off the plate.

what is "Peronism"? it would be an interesting subject for discussion

Peronism is the Movement that did the most for Argentina, politically, socially, culturally, militarily, economically, etc, etc.
Furthermore, it is the political identity of the popular majorities.
But we are in a military forum and it would not be fair to occupy it in this debate.
Although there are certain people who like to promote Byzantine discussions.

we have also a lot of discussion on politics in this forum so no problem

Peronism as i have observed isnt an specific ideology. It cant be described as left (Kirchnerism) or right (Carlos Menem) throughout history. Even the founder of the movement, Juan Peron who is regarded as "leftist", found refugee in Francoist Spain...after his expulsion

Peronism is a Popular Nationalist Movement.
Obviously he is neither from the left nor from the right.
Analyzing in these "European" terms the Argentine reality does not contribute.
Franco is mentioned.
Spanish Francoists and anti-Francoists participated in Peronism.
The so-called left-wing parties never had great popular roots. Rather, they are made up of sectors of the middle class.
They were against all popular governments and supported dictatorships. Including the worst: the National Reorganization Process from 1976 to 1983.
Besides, the great majority that is said to be on the left is quite permeable to the cultural penetration of Imperialism.
Rather, they take that position, to be away from the people, but to be able to have a "clean conscience."

Argentina ready to resume discussion of NPP construction project with Russia - President

https://tass.com/world/1394815

More from Tass:

Argentina’s president says sees perfect conditions for developing relations with Russia .

https://tass.com/world/1394821

Argentine leader prefers Russian Sputnik V to other COVID-19 vaccines.

https://tass.com/world/1394825

Any deals with the Russians would seriously upset London.

Need I say more?

Any deals with the Russians would seriously upset London.

The UK has made it clear Russia is the enemy so why wouldn't Russia look to Argentina and other countries too.

Putin hails Argentina as one of Russia’s key partners in Latin America

https://tass.com/politics/1397379

Putin is straight up trolling at this point.

AlfaT8 wrote:Putin is straight up trolling at this point.

Maybe he visits 4chan.

It's time to gift some su-24 and a dozen of kh-31. They don't need more to destroy british ships.

If Russia can't tell HATO who can join or be partners, then HATO can't tell Russia who to be friends with either...

Hopefully Argentina strengthens security and hunkers down for the inevitable western media attack and regime change attempts that will be on their way.

The irony is that with the west putting up the sanction wall and the cold shoulder Russia has no choice but to look elsewhere for trade partners... did they think Russia would just curl up in a ball and cry?

Isos wrote:It's time to gift some su-24 and a dozen of kh-31. They don't need more to destroy british ships.

Why gift, when they could sell them for reasonable price. To use Kh-31A/AD anti-ship missiles, they need Su-24M2, which have upgraded radar with anti-ship modes. The best choice for Argentina would be Su-30SME multirole fighters.

medo wrote:

Isos wrote:It's time to gift some su-24 and a dozen of kh-31. They don't need more to destroy british ships.

Why gift, when they could sell them for reasonable price. To use Kh-31A/AD anti-ship missiles, they need Su-24M2, which have upgraded radar with anti-ship modes. The best choice for Argentina would be Su-30SME multirole fighters.

It's a broken economy. They don't have the money for su-30SME, neither for su-24 tbh.

Don't want to get them hooked on charity though... Don't they produce a lot of beef?

I am sure Russia could find products Argentina could produce that are good quality and useful to Russia that they could work something out so they can produce and trade their way out of the current rut they are in.

medo wrote:

Isos wrote:It's time to gift some su-24 and a dozen of kh-31. They don't need more to destroy british ships.

Why gift, when they could sell them for reasonable price. To use Kh-31A/AD anti-ship missiles, they need Su-24M2, which have upgraded radar with anti-ship modes. The best choice for Argentina would be Su-30SME multirole fighters.

There's no need to sell anything like that to Argentina, their fascination with those islands has never been Russia's nor the USSR's concern. People in the Falklands are happy in the country that they're in now.

But the meeting does deliver a message to Boris Johnson and I hope he will reflect on it, as will the rest of these chickenhawks

Isos wrote:

medo wrote:

Isos wrote:It's time to gift some su-24 and a dozen of kh-31. They don't need more to destroy british ships.

Why gift, when they could sell them for reasonable price. To use Kh-31A/AD anti-ship missiles, they need Su-24M2, which have upgraded radar with anti-ship modes. The best choice for Argentina would be Su-30SME multirole fighters.

It's a broken economy. They don't have the money for su-30SME, neither for su-24 tbh.

Argentina is not that broken. They want to buy fighter jets like Mirage-2000 or Gripen-NG, but deals were blocked by UK, not the lack of money. If Argentine MoD could put together money for Gripen-NG, then there is no money problem to buy Su-30SME, which is cheaper.

flamming_python wrote:There's no need to sell anything like that to Argentina, their fascination with those islands has never been Russia's nor the USSR's concern. People in the Falklands are happy in the country that they're in now.

Falklands are not Russian problem. But selling to Argentina is good for two reasons. Making money and to return a favour to UK for their medling and making a mess in Ukraine. Let them have some troubles in far away south...

They wouldn't buy Nato jets with money but by giving away their country.

A friend of mine was working their since the start of the pandemic and the economic crisis is huge. They have no money for fighter jets.

Which is another reason for them to boost trade with Russia and work and earn their way out of their current problem situation.

Even just making it clear it is an option should get them better terms with the west and make the west work a bit harder to keep them out of the Russian/Chinese orbit.

I suspect them actually buying Russian aircraft would be as likely as New Zealand buying Russian transport planes... our isolated location means C-130s are bloody useless... if we bought Il-476s we could at least fly to the pacific islands without needing to hop from island to island on the way to where we are going.... and also deliver a decent amount of cargo in doing so... it would probably be cheaper than the Herc too.

When we turn up to support peacekeeping missions around the world extra transport planes will be rather more valuable to any effort than more fighter planes... especially ones we could afford.

This government is very lukewarm.
Difficult to buy important Russian weapons.
Kirchnerism ruled between 2003 and 2015 and did not.
I get tired of saying that the issue of the alleged purchase of modern weapons comes up every once in a while.
It is nothing more than smoke from certain "military" web pages that live on such unsubstantiated news.
All to train its teenage audience (or who thinks like a teenager despite being a few years old), a fan of weapons.
I remind you that, beyond the speeches, the government of Alberto Fernández ended up agreeing with the IMF.

The west will be working super hard to drive wedges between Russia and soon also China and the rest of the world and of course they wont fight fair because they don't see this as free market competition... they see it as a war, which means they will be murdering people and doing all sorts of terrible things to "win".

How helpful have they been in the last few hundred years at making Argentina great again?

I suspect not at all.

They will tell you we have been bad, there is no other way to paint it, but if we have been bad, think how much worse the Russians or Chinese would be... which is a con because Russia and China are not afraid of a powerful independent Argentina that acts in its own interests... that would be the US.

One way out for dealing with the present-day crisis between Russia and Alberto Fernández is to straighten relationships with the Argentinian military (cruel dictatorship is way long in the past and justice is being made), but in view of pressuring London over the Malvinas issue, which is something of a spine deep inside the Argentinian people's flesh.
Control over the South Atlantic should rest upon the Brazilian military, with close cooperation, who have excellent relationships with the Argentinian military. The Malvinas issue is a bond that ultimately unite both countries, despite minor rivalries between them.

The last governments of Argentina have left aside the military issue.
Whether from the left or the right, beyond the speeches or some lukewarm measures, there has been no serious defense policy.
It is enough to see that with regard to weapons, Westerners continue to buy.
This has been done even by governments with a "left" tendency: Néstor Kirchner, Cristina Kirchner or Aníbal Fernández.
Even Macri's "right" government bought more weapons than those named.
On the other hand, in the Armed Forces, sectors of Power remain, with pro-Western thinking, who spend their time criticizing everything that is Russian or Chinese weapons.
On a political level, the current government in Brazil supports the candidate Lula Da Silva, who is also from a moderate left.
This type of position of the liberal left is typical in Latin America.
The same should not be forgotten, that Argentina maintains a position close to the West, especially the USA. Just look at the recent agreement with the IMF.
The "washing hands" stance on Russia is not new.
A few years ago, Cristina Kirchner visited Gaddafi in Libya and made several agreements.
That if, when the West supported the revolt against the government and took military action, our country remained suspiciously silent.
So don't get your hopes up about what Argentina is doing.
At the moment he has chosen a low profile.
In addition, it has more important problems, such as unemployment, low wages, poverty, etc, etc.
And at the moment it only deals with imposing feminism, gender diversity, inclusive language and other nonsense, which do not have much popular support.