The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

TR1 wrote:While I generally agree with that cynical look @ "liberal" governments, Russia still manages to outdo most of them in how dysfunctional its political climate is.

And that has more to do with the fact that everyone else running is incompetent. So it is a damned if you do damned if you don't. We will be facing this coming next election time in Canada as Harper (even as corrupt and stupid as he is) is our only choice. Unless you want a kid ridding on his fathers popularity.

sepheronx wrote:

TR1 wrote:While I generally agree with that cynical look @ "liberal" governments, Russia still manages to outdo most of them in how dysfunctional its political climate is.

And that has more to do with the fact that everyone else running is incompetent.  So it is a damned if you do damned if you don't.  We will be facing this coming next election time in Canada as Harper (even as corrupt and stupid as he is) is our only choice.  Unless you want a kid ridding on his fathers popularity.

In Canada you guys have elections that are at least mostly regular. Remember the last election in Russia? What a mess that was?

Someone competent and actually fairly honest running in Russian elections and gathering momentum is impossible due to the system and how entrenched Putin is.

Russia has Putin's Party, in the US, we have the Federal Reserve Party. There is no real choice anymore, anyone who brings in new ideas is ostracized. This will not change until the baby boomer generation is dead and buried.

IMO, Russia currently has the better of the two, but as a Libertarian (in the American sense of the word), Putin grinds my gears. Russia can do better, and still be a sovereign world power.

TR1 wrote:Balanced opinion and this forum? Oh come on.

Farthest thing away from it.
I don't even need to explain it, just one look at the obsessive defense of Russia, constant, desperate bashing of America present in almost every political related thread. By non-Russians too, which is the weird part.
You guys can have your naive opinions of Russia all you want (yes, I consider such blind defense of any large national government, American, Russian, whatever to be naive), but stop embarrassing yourselves with the constant barbs at America. Especially when it is ignorant in the extreme.

The logical leaps you guys go to defend Russia in every instance is creepy. Once again, this is coming from a born Russian citizen.

From reading this forum, one would think Russia is the rising star of the world. What can I say, enjoy the fantasy I guess. I hate to live in a much more complex reality.

this is not the first time i am in agreement with your comments TR1.

i really do not feel like replying to most comments personally for the reasons you stated. at times it feels like trying to describe collour to a blind man when it comes to things like this. like you pointed out some logical leaps are grosely inaccurate of how things work in the real world.

i really want an end to the bloodhed there in eastern ukraine. and honestly at some point i was thinking about lending some form of support.
but of course i realise as well those aircraft hit with AA weapons are not "people taking up arms" but i know thats a "grey" area of the conflict. just to point out one example. like you refference to "balanced opinion". people see something is out of the ordinary, but choose to ignore it or simply are not wiser to realise.
and from your position and point of view its creepy/disturbing i understand as well. that someone so fervently (even foreigners)  hits the support button without realising how large governments work and that no one has their hands clean. witch i think you refer to as "blind defense".

TR1 wrote:Balanced opinion and this forum? Oh come on.

I'll take that as a personal attack. Because it was me blaming Russia's actions at the beginning, oh but I guess you missed that...
I must thank you for that Ad Hominem though.

TR1 wrote:Farthest thing away from it.

Again either POINT TO MY BIASED OPINION, or STFU! (should not be an effort for you, because you almost NEVER reply to any of my points).

TR1 wrote:I don't even need to explain it, just one look at the obsessive defense of Russia, constant, desperate bashing of America present in almost every political related thread. By non-Russians too, which is the weird part.

I'm sure people defending what they think is right is "weird" to you. Just as people fighting in the Spanish civil war was weird to some other people.
Let me know how you feel on Middle Eastern men fighting for the Chechens. I personally am inclined to think that you consider that was their brave help in the Chechnya fight for independence, and fully justified, but I'll let you explain further.

TR1 wrote:You guys can have your naive opinions of Russia all you want (yes, I consider such blind defense of any large national government, American, Russian, whatever to be naive), but stop embarrassing yourselves with the constant barbs at America. Especially when it is ignorant in the extreme.

Yes, tell that to someone that hasn't seen the post-communist establishment, or hasn't lived in America. Me?! Seen both. Can't be fooled by either.

TR1 wrote:The logical leaps you guys go to defend Russia in every instance is creepy. Once again, this is coming from a born Russian citizen.

A Russian citizen that keeps remembering the faith of his forefathers, and a brave internet warrior for the Chechen cause.
Go out one night, and tell people how you feel that Chechens are brave, but oppressed people...especially after Boston...and come back to us with how that went for you. I'm thinking you'll be singing a different tune then!

TR1 wrote:From reading this forum, one would think Russia is the rising star of the world. What can I say, enjoy the fantasy I guess. I hate to live in a much more complex reality.

Again, either point to where that was said, or...well...STFU

Your response is EXACTLY the kind of absurd one sided nonsense I am talking about.

Chechen internet warrior? Please.
You don't know what I think about Chechnya. And like most of the forum, it is clear you don't know much about Chechnya period.
You are basing your attacks because I dared to bring up Russia's history in the Kavkaz, because I dare to being up the multitude of reports regards human rights abuses by the Russian government in its Chechen wars...that makes me a "Chechen internet warrior".
If I was one of your obsessive Russophiles, I wouldn't even open my mouth about Chechnya. Though honestly I wouldn't even call you guys Russophiles, since it is clear it is the Russian government and "teh power" you guys care about, more so than Russian citizens themselves.

The fact that you guys jump like rabid dogs on say.. Georgia for its actions in 2008, yet go to amazing leaps to defend Russia in Chechnya as an innocent virgin capable of no wrong is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Like I said, enjoy your fantasies.

The political discussion on this forum is one big Russia centric circlejerk. It is laughable. Nazi this, America that, Jews that. Hence why I post mostly in the technical sections.

TR1 wrote:Your response is EXACTLY the kind of absurd one sided nonsense I am talking about.

Chechen internet warrior? Please.
You don't know what I think about Chechnya. And like most of the forum, it is clear you don't know much about Chechnya period.
You are basing your attacks because I dared to bring up Russia's history in the Kavkaz, because I dare to being up the multitude of reports regards human rights abuses by the Russian government in its Chechen wars...that makes me a "Chechen internet warrior".
If I was one of your obsessive Russophiles, I wouldn't even open my mouth about Chechnya.

The fact that you guys jump like rabid dogs on say.. Georgia for its actions in 2008, yet go to amazing leaps to defend Russia in Chechnya as an innocent virgin capable of no wrong is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Like I said, enjoy your fantasies.

The political discussion on this forum is one big Russia centric circlejerk. It is laughable. Nazi this, America that, Jews that. Hence why I post mostly in the technical sections.

If my posts aren't erased, I think you can quote AT LEAST one of them to support what you base your opinion on.
I'm here waiting.

Like I said, one can read this thread, or any Kavkaz related thread on this forum.
It makes everything pretty clear.

I am not talking about you specifically, but the general attitude on the forum. Your condescending comments about Americans are relevant here though.
Though I can see Chechnya got you riled up, no shocker there.

TR1 wrote:Like I said, one can read this thread, or any Kavkaz related thread on this forum.
It makes everything pretty clear.

Still waiting for proof from you lovely.

TR1 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

TR1 wrote:While I generally agree with that cynical look @ "liberal" governments, Russia still manages to outdo most of them in how dysfunctional its political climate is.

And that has more to do with the fact that everyone else running is incompetent.  So it is a damned if you do damned if you don't.  We will be facing this coming next election time in Canada as Harper (even as corrupt and stupid as he is) is our only choice.  Unless you want a kid ridding on his fathers popularity.

In Canada you guys have elections that are at least mostly regular. Remember the last election in Russia? What a mess that was?

Someone competent and actually fairly honest running in Russian elections and gathering momentum is impossible due to the system and how entrenched Putin is.

I highly doubt that, as we do not know what these potentials are.  Seeing as how no one competent has actually tried.  Until they do, we then have the right to judge.

I don't know the validity of our honest elections system.  During the time when NDP was really pushing against Conservatives, most was certain that NDP was going to win or at least come close.  yet somehow, even with all their popularity, majority went to Conservative and there is no minority government.  Which in my opinion, is very questionable at best.

In Russia, it seems that there are mix numbers regarding Putins popularity, and same during votes.  Those so called oppositions that end up in jail, are usually in jail for a good reason.  Just because they are opposition, does not warrant them to be above the law.  Although, many cronies in Putin's group should be behind bars, I agree with that.

In US, no different.  Politicians are business men and Lockheed Martin is in the Pentagon.  What difference does it make?  Not long ago, it was stated that US is an oligarchy system too.  So you got two players whom are equally guilty.  So I agree, pointing fingers at one should be at both.  But right now, due to US pressure on the whole Ukraine and Syria business, makes Russia have the upper hand in terms of morals.  Sorry to say.

Zivo wrote:Russia has Putin's Party, in the US, we have the Federal Reserve Party. There is no real choice anymore, anyone who brings in new ideas is ostracized. This will not change until the baby boomer generation is dead and buried.

IMO, Russia currently has the better of the two, but as a Libertarian (in the American sense of the word), Putin grinds my gears. Russia can do better, and still be a sovereign world power.

Like in a Comic I once read (from the 60's): How can we have a brave new world, when it is the same old people running it.  I'll try to find it.

TR1 wrote:I am not talking about you specifically, but the general attitude on the forum. Your condescending comments about Americans are relevant here though.
Though I can see Chechnya got you riled up, no shocker there.

Support that with any of my posts too.
Then I'll be shocked!

The other thing people are seeming to forget is that it is US pushing sanctions on Russia, even though there is no clear evidence of Russia's meddling in eastern Ukraine. These sanctions they keep trying to push is making Europe nervous and Russia more....how to say it.....walled off from the rest of the western world? This in turn forces Russia to make changes and start developing in house, which in the end, means more jobs for Russian's, more skilled work and potential for a better life (as well as access to goods they may not be able to access in the future from the west). Because of these pushes in sanctions though, without clear evidence, is getting people riled up. Add to that, it is quite a coincidence that colored revolutions are happening in countries close to Russia, and all wanting to be NATO. Something real strange in them, and it is no coincidence. Sorry to say. So to whine saying that US is innocence, is ignorance at best.

I don't even need to explain it, just one look at the obsessive defense of Russia, constant, desperate bashing of America present in almost every political related thread. By non-Russians too, which is the weird part.
You guys can have your naive opinions of Russia all you want (yes, I consider such blind defense of any large national government, American, Russian, whatever to be naive), but stop embarrassing yourselves with the constant barbs at America. Especially when it is ignorant in the extreme.

Indeed, there might be too many naive and ignorant comments and views expressed, but most of the the "barbs" at US are never far from the truth. Sorry, but one, in this day and age anyone with a degree of ability to think can see the cynicism and ruthlessness of the scumbag-dominated country called US on the world stage (wars, invasions, stirring conflicts, MILLIONS of dead just in the last 25 years alone), secondly, i'm afraid anyone coming from that country or being connected to it has zero credibility when discussing matters such as the Ukraine coup. Maybe the russians are no angels, but it is certain the US is the ENEMY of pretty much all humanity, they want us all as their orwellian slaves, and no, that is not far fetched, and that is not "crazy". Can you show a more logical reason for the US's actions on the world's stage than making everyone their slaves (knowingly or not) and having everyone live in their "pax americana"? You don't really believe their "democracy and freedom" bullshit do you ? Whatever time you have spent that country, i'm afraid you have been contaminated (maybe even worse) by their perfidous propaganda (i fully remember your views about some  US-russian alliance against China... nope, it's not China who is the enemy). No disrespect.

Oh and yeah, f*** the US.

macedonian wrote:

TR1 wrote:I am not talking about you specifically, but the general attitude on the forum. Your condescending comments about Americans are relevant here though.
Though I can see Chechnya got you riled up, no shocker there.

Support that with any of my posts too.
Then I'll be shocked!

Since I ain't getting an answer from you (and never will, as usual),
Let me help you decipher me TR1 (though I know it's futile):

I've said this regarding Ukrainian serviceman:

macedonian wrote:

Firebird wrote:

arpakola wrote:MI-8 Helicopter of Ukrainian air force shot down near slavyansk, 9 soldiers reported dead. R.I.P

RIP u say?

Bearing in mind they were breaching a ceasefire. Aiming to kill innocent men, women and children.
Supporting a junta that was in power thro violence, and reflecting Nazism as a key core of its ambitions.

I'm thinking of rest in the peace the innocent  Donbass people who just wanted to be treated fairly and not have their homes and hospitals shelled. Not  those who are looking to terrorise them.

I though we've been through this already...
YES bearing all that in mind - RIP!
See, I'm an Orthodox Christian, and we pray for our enemies. We also respect the dead.

Not to mention it's a proper, human, civil thing to say.
It's also an attribute of heroes to stay gracious in time of victory.

And here I am defending you:

macedonian wrote:Could we PLEASE STOP this nonconstructive circlejerk "discussion" and stupid fanboyism?!
Pretty fcuking please?!! (with sugar on top)
Stop fcuking down-voting people that offer their sympathy and condolences to the dead!!! Didn't your mother teach you better than that?!!!
For FUCKs SAKE! Don't be the same as Banderovtsy scum in Ukrainian forums! Pro-Russians should be better than that! That's the whole fcuking point!
There's a difference between the pro-Russians in the east, and the NazGuard, and we should acknowledge that the Pro-Russians are HEROES defending their rights, while the other side...well...what do they fight for?! But that's a sentiment I hold EXCLUSIVELY for the NazGuard volunteers, and NOT for the poor conscripts that are forced to fight...

Sometime even people that I mostly agree with make me...ugh...   

Oh, and my thoughts vis-a-vis Georgia:

macedonian wrote:I merely wanted to know more about the situation, not take sides. And you ain't helping.
And if I did takes sides, I'll be on the side of whomever is right, not the side that I prefer (which is obviously Russia in this case). Sorry, but I don't think that way.
This might come as a shock to you, but I KNOW that tensions run high before/during/after conflicts and that it takes time for people to calm the fcuk down.
Something you need to think about as well.

TR1, - yet again I drop this same line for you, in hope that you reply: [the] ball is in your court Mister
But before you call me biased (which I am towards Russia/Russians and never claimed otherwise) please offer some supportive argument that I've been less than critical towards Russia and have showed a "fanboy" attitude.
Much obliged to you Sir.

TR1 wrote:Your response is EXACTLY the kind of absurd one sided nonsense I am talking about.

Chechen internet warrior? Please.
You don't know what I think about Chechnya. And like most of the forum, it is clear you don't know much about Chechnya period.
You are basing your attacks because I dared to bring up Russia's history in the Kavkaz, because I dare to being up the multitude of reports regards human rights abuses by the Russian government in its Chechen wars...that makes me a "Chechen internet warrior".
If I was one of your obsessive Russophiles, I wouldn't even open my mouth about Chechnya. Though honestly I wouldn't even call you guys Russophiles, since it is clear it is the Russian government and "teh power" you guys care about, more so than Russian citizens themselves.

The fact that you guys jump like rabid dogs on say.. Georgia for its actions in 2008, yet go to amazing leaps to defend Russia in Chechnya as an innocent virgin capable of no wrong is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Like I said, enjoy your fantasies.

The political discussion on this forum is one big Russia centric circlejerk. It is laughable. Nazi this, America that, Jews that. Hence why I post mostly in the technical sections.

Using Wikishmedia as a source with Human Rights Watch as one of the sources to the wikishmedia article is a self discreditation. Human Rights Watch is an American finanzed, at least to a big portion, finanzed by USAID that whenever they need some human rights abuses to start a "you are now the rogue state campaign" against any country.

If you can't give credible sources and try to convience yourself that wikishmedia the biggest hijacked website where articles are constantly edited in the way people are wanting them. Never read actual books or do you relly on wikishmedia only?

I try to be here as fair as possible the problem i see with you, is that you are whitewhashing US foreign policy like some cheapshots by US presidents, like they have no link between the administrations of former presidents. US invades a country, next president comes invades another country, finanzing hundreds of NGOs supplying terrorists all over the world, like in Chechnya, but of course don't blame USA for Chechen war, don't dare to blame USA for Lybian war,Syrien war and don't blame USA for Ukraine war, it is all Russias fault.

You are less russian than you want to admit, you are truelly americanized, you completley ignore that USA is an evil empire that is killing own citizens and blaming other nations for that and they do that to push through unconstitutional laws like NDAA,Patriot Act and the overall surveillance of US citizens, but of course USA has no bad intentions. They started poking the bear with Georgian war, Sackarschwili would have never done the shit he did if USA didn't say it was OK, like they do now in Ukraine to the fascists, that they can freely kill everyone, because USA says it's ok.

You are such a hypocrite truelly american way.

 if you want to bash America, start the appropriate thread and remember.... keep it civil. This thread is for Ukraine.

Vladimir79 wrote: if you want to bash America, start the appropriate thread and remember.... keep it civil.  This thread is for Ukraine.

Yes well, in a globalized world...things are kinda related.
And America is/was the driving force behind all those 'Orange Revolutions' and 'Maidans' so...it's not really offtop here.

macedonian wrote:
Yes well, in a globalized world...things are kinda related.
And America is/was the driving force behind all those 'Orange Revolutions' and 'Maidans' so...it's not really offtop here.

You and others are talking far more than Orange Revolutions and i don't like the making of things personal that was going on page 54.  I don't really care what you talk about as long as it is in the appropriate place and done with civility.  RMF isn't a globalized world... it is my property and i don't want to see it littered.

Vladimir79 wrote:

macedonian wrote:
Yes well, in a globalized world...things are kinda related.
And America is/was the driving force behind all those 'Orange Revolutions' and 'Maidans' so...it's not really offtop here.

You and others are talking far more than Orange Revolutions and i don't like the making of things personal that was going on page 54.  I don't really care what you talk about as long as it is in the appropriate place and done with civility.  RMF isn't a globalized world... it is my property and i don't want to see it littered.

Well, you hold the ban hammer, and you make the rules in your property...as it should be.
My arguments though, are always civil, and to the point.
If I somehow made it personal, let me know.
Or ban me.
Whatever you decide in your property I'm fine with it.

Very Interesting Report.. talks about the US failure in export the Maidan style Revolution from ukraine into venezuela..
and shows all the tactics they used and how CIA assets were arrested and a employees close to President Maduro detected..
The Venezuela intelligence is one of the best of the world.. Use proven Cuban counter intelligence tactics with Russian technology.   
Also is not less true that the CIA have become so repetitive in their tactics ,that they can be captured more easily. Just like in Kiev
There was also CIA hired Snipers in venezuela firing at both sides..      The US gov is becoming so pathetic and and they can be defeated .

http://www.voltairenet.org/article183856.html

When Chavez was alive ,already many know also ,how one French citizen hired by the previous French President was caught trying to kill
chavez from about 1,000m distance shot. A Russian technology detected the lazer and saved his life. and the Hitman was arrested.. in his
apartment was found enough military weapons from rockets grenades to machine guns to start a small guerrilla war. 

 Careful don´t say America in this thread or TR1 will be mad.
USA!!! USA!!!

Watch out, the USA might be hiding under your bed Dino.
Ukranian and Russian love was eternal until dem Amerikuhns showed up!

No Careful don´t say America in this thread or TR1 will be mad.
USA!!! USA!!!

Stop trolling... this post added nothing of value to this thread.

Get on topic people and don't make your posts personal... or there will be problems.