The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

Hannibal Barca wrote:People concede only to power. Raze eg Poland to the ground and all 'll see that finally East surpassed West.
Inevitably this is where it goes. A showcase like Kosovo '99 is what we need and we will make it when we will be strong enough....

Not Slavic people.
I believe that even if Putin deserts Strelkov, he'll be fighting to the bitter end. MHO, of course.
Yes, we're THAT stupid, and very keen on justice.
That's why you see Ukrainian soldiers (who would normally fight and die, no questions asked) desert or join the rebels.
Slavic peoples need to FEEL that they're on the side of RIGHTEOUSNESS.
There was an article named "Srpski Inat" a few years back that really described what I'm saying, if I find it I'll PM it to you.

But then why so many of them are pro Americans and waved the white flag after 1991 especially women.
If not for a small minority of highly educated semi-urban males in their early maturity pretty much all the rest conceded to the evil and adopted their way of life.

macedonian wrote:More of those 'pro-European elements' who were so keen on 'democracy' as to initiate a coup d'etat:



See how bright the future is for Ukraine?
BTW that's supposedly hotel "Tourist" in Kyiv where the election of a new head of Trade Unions was held, and a head supposed to be elected.
I'm thinking these 'democratic warriors' weren't pleased with the candidates, and decided to go 'all democratic' on them....Maidan style!

--------------------
Edit:
Video of the democratic event:

This is what Kiev gets for allowing bandits to freely travel with immunity destroying business and police neither the parliament do anything.They will turn into more and more crimes ,into more loot and stealing ,and the more time pass and Ukraine economy shrinks ,the worse. If i was Poroshenko i will have hired professional strong martial artist fighters and order them to break all their bones and send all the fascist directly to Hospital ,unconcious ,badly beaten and arrested for at least 10 years.  That the only way they could move later is on a wheelchair. But kiev continues ignoring its responsability of protecting business in Ukraine and its people.. Who in hell is going to invest in Ukraine with such animals running wildly destroying everything.?

Hannibal Barca wrote:But then why so many of them are pro Americans and waved the white flag after 1991 especially women.
If not for a small minority of highly educated semi-urban males in their early maturity pretty much all the rest conceded to the evil and adopted their way of life.

Yes, very true.
I can only offer my own opinion and myself as an example. I don't want to project my opinion onto others, but I'm sure many will find themselves agreeing.
I too was very pro-American, and very pro-West. Heck, I'm western educated, and spent most of my adult life in America and England.
But after I started maturing, I begun to ask myself "What is right"? "What's the purpose of having money, fame&fortune, and everything that goes with it...  "? if you're NOT on the side of righteousness?! I wasn't an Orthodox Christian to begin with, my Grandfather was a communist, a partisan in WWII, and my father isn't even Baptized to this day (he proclames himself a communist to this very day). And religion is "opium to the masses" as far as my family is concerned.

But even when I was pro-western, pro-American, and all that...I would NEVER...EVER side with anyone against Russia.
Never. Believe you me. I even considered my Russian schoolmates in my American high-school traitors, because they wouldn't fight for "their own lad" and I did.
I never really knew that Russian bloke that I was fighting for, but I've convinced my friends from Mexico, Brazil and America, that we should stand up for this guy, because that's the RIGHT THING to do! And it was actually, because some blacks only harassed and bullied him for being Russian.

So, I consider those people that side with America bought. Actually, not only me, there's quite significant evidence that money is paid to those people, but...push comes to shove...EVEN THOSE will become pro-Russian. At least that's what I think.

Fingers crossed, eh?  

@arpacola
Vis-a-vis Tsarev.

Quite true, this ДЕБИЛ title.
They should get someone less prone to alcohol, and smarter than him to speak for them.

Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

Hannibal Barca wrote:Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

How can one disagree with that?   
Americans only have "made-up" fiat money.
Sadly most Americans are really nice, good, and honest people.
It's just that they're lately not brave enough to take their country back from the Oligarchs that rule them.
Or stupid enough to buy into this "patriotic" line against themselves and against the whole world...
It's...Similar to Ukraine...that.

Hannibal Barca wrote:But then why so many of them are pro Americans and waved the white flag after 1991 especially women.
If not for a small minority of highly educated semi-urban males in their early maturity pretty much all the rest conceded to the evil and adopted their way of life.

long story .. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaborationism_with_the_Axis_powers

macedonian wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

How can one disagree with that?   
Americans only have "made-up" fiat money.
Sadly most Americans are really nice, good, and honest people.
It's just that they're lately not brave enough to take their country back from the Oligarchs that rule them.
Or stupid enough to buy into this "patriotic" line against themselves and against the whole world...
It's...Similar to Ukraine...that.

US have been for decades without contest as the world largest economy ,and the superpower in entertainment and home technology
like Ipods ,computers ,movies and music and video games and they control Japan that is the other super power in entertainment too..
On top of used to having one of the best standard of living for the middle high class and richest,and again world leader in entertainment and world most largest  armed forces. And if all that was not enough ,also its banks having the control world economy for decades while Russia economy collapsed. and China and India was no one. Between Holywood ,Disney and Personal computers on top of fake moon landings in the moon ,they pretty much owned the world second to none. But most of that is changing.. and is becoming more balanced. No longer US controls the world economy or have the space leadership they used to have and their music industry sucks big time today.

So thats why most people want to join the EU or US become of their modern culture and standard of living for the wealthy class.
Russia selling Gas and oil alone is not going to convince the young generation of any nation who love entertainment ,to party and have fun with gadjets technology to join any trade pact with them.

That said if USA economy collapse ,i dont think Russia could fill the gap .Russia needs to improve the standard of quality of people , have
many more Sochi like cities and Entertainment Parks like in Orlando Florida. CAsinos and hotels like las Vegas.. etc.. on top that Russia needs to invest on entertainment industry ,nothing can attract new generation of people more than that. Create their own Holywood ,and have a strong video game industry.   Canada for example that is not a super power ,and Japan.. heavily invest in entertainment ,both have
a very strong video game industry ,CAnada have Ubisoft who produce triple A pc game titles and Japan have Sony and playstations.

So Russia needs to become more attractive for young generations and more fun place to visit and not just be a Gas Station like the west say,if they want to really have other countries interested and forming in line to join a trade deal with them . If i were Putin i will heavily invest in creating a more powerful personal computers that Intel or AMD and creating a spy free operating system to counter Microsoft and bypass the NSA and do the same as Canada and fully jump in the most profitable entertainment business ,that is the video game industry.
Another thing that will also attract a lot ,other countries to Russia is their space program. Russia need to start a new Space race and become the first to travel to Mars in a manned mission and deploy a base in the moon before americans . and take the lead in space.

If Russia do half of those things ,which are perfectly possible for Russia capabilities ,they will be in a big Position to attract
a lot of man power and talent to Russia.. They already did it in Sports , that you saw several foreigners even americans and South koreans joining Russia team ,they now need to do the same in their entertainment and space industry.

Vann7 wrote:

macedonian wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

How can one disagree with that?   
Americans only have "made-up" fiat money.
Sadly most Americans are really nice, good, and honest people.
It's just that they're lately not brave enough to take their country back from the Oligarchs that rule them.
Or stupid enough to buy into this "patriotic" line against themselves and against the whole world...
It's...Similar to Ukraine...that.

US have been for decades without contest as the world largest economy ,and the superpower in entertainment and home technology
like Ipods ,computers ,movies and music and video games and they control Japan that is the other super power in entertainment too..
On top of used to having one of the best standard of living for the middle high class and richest,and again world leader in entertainment and world most largest  armed forces. And if all that was not enough ,also its banks having the control world economy for decades while Russia economy collapsed. and China and India was no one. Between Holywood ,Disney and Personal computers on top of fake moon landings in the moon ,they pretty much owned the world second to none. But most of that is changing.. and is becoming more balanced. No longer US controls the world economy or have the space leadership they used to have and their music industry sucks big time today.

So thats why most people want to join the EU or US become of their modern culture and standard of living for the wealthy class.
Russia selling Gas and oil alone is not going to convince the young generation of any nation who love entertainment ,to party and have fun with gadjets technology to join any trade pact with them.

That said if USA economy collapse ,i dont think Russia could fill the gap .Russia needs to improve the standard of quality of people , have
many more Sochi like cities and Entertainment Parks like in Orlando Florida. CAsinos and hotels like las Vegas.. etc.. on top that Russia needs to invest on entertainment industry ,nothing can attract new generation of people more than that. Create their own Holywood ,and have a strong video game industry.   Canada for example that is not a super power ,and Japan.. heavily invest in entertainment ,both have
a very strong video game industry ,CAnada have Ubisoft who produce triple A pc game titles and Japan have Sony and playstations.

So Russia needs to become more attractive for young generations and more fun place to visit and not just be a Gas Station like the west say,if they want to really have other countries interested and forming in line to join a trade deal with them . If i were Putin i will heavily invest in creating a more powerful personal computers that Intel or AMD and creating a spy free operating system to counter Microsoft and bypass the NSA and do the same as Canada and fully jump in the most profitable entertainment business ,that is the video game industry.
Another thing that will also attract a lot ,other countries to Russia is their space program. Russia need to start a new Space race and become the first to travel to Mars in a manned mission and deploy a base in the moon before americans . and take the lead in space.

You know what Vann7...
I'm gonna up-vote you for this post.
Perhaps it's not comprehensive enough, but you make some pretty interesting and logical arguments.
So here's my +1 to you man.
Good post.

macedonian wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

How can one disagree with that?   
Americans only have "made-up" fiat money.
Sadly most Americans are really nice, good, and honest people.
It's just that they're lately not brave enough to take their country back from the Oligarchs that rule them.
Or stupid enough to buy into this "patriotic" line against themselves and against the whole world...
It's...Similar to Ukraine...that.

I'd say 40% SEEM to be ok. And 40% are monsters, in political/international morality terms. The other 20% I don't know.

BUT, look how its the same shit with each side. Democrat OR Republican.
Its hard to imagine a majority of Germans committing the atrocities of Nazism these days. Altho I have no doubt some proportion of them could.

Looking at America, imagining a financial crash, deaths on THEIR soil for once, and I'd have no doubt that vast numbers of them could be capable of truly heinous crimes. Infact, already many of them vote for genocidal politicians.

Firebird wrote:

macedonian wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

How can one disagree with that?   
Americans only have "made-up" fiat money.
Sadly most Americans are really nice, good, and honest people.
It's just that they're lately not brave enough to take their country back from the Oligarchs that rule them.
Or stupid enough to buy into this "patriotic" line against themselves and against the whole world...
It's...Similar to Ukraine...that.

I'd say 40% SEEM to be ok. And 40% are monsters, in political/international morality terms. The other 20% I don't know.

BUT, look how its the same shit with each side. Democrat OR Republican.
Its hard to imagine a majority of Germans committing the atrocities of Nazism these days. Altho I have no doubt some proportion of them could.

Looking at America, imagining a financial crash, deaths on THEIR soil for once, and I'd have no doubt that vast numbers of them could be capable of truly heinous crimes. Infact, already many of them vote for genocidal politicians.

Well, can't really argue with the truth I guess...
I know what I know from the time I've been there, and that's far from recent.
Still, I feel sorry for how people have changed for the worse, especially since I've seen their good side.

But even if there's one honest and good person left, there's still hope.
And hope dies last...

Guys, may I suggest you worry a little more about the state of Russia, before writing an obituary for those poor poor Americans?

Things are fine here.
I am far more concerned with the state for the Average Russian citizen.

This thread is the weirdest amalgamation of obsessively pro-Russian non Russians. o.O

TR1 wrote:Guys, may I suggest you worry a little more about the state of Russia, before writing an obituary for those poor poor Americans?

Pretty sure that we're not on an American forum, so your post will not be erased (as mine were on mp.net), nor will your suggestion be ignored.
I worry about Macedonia first though, but that's just me. Other people have their own countries to worry about.

TR1 wrote:Things are fine here.

I'm...sure...things...are...pretty...peachy. (I could link much, much more, you know. Actually, I could do this all day, since I've got more links than you've got Chechnya videos)

TR1 wrote:I am far more concerned with the state for the Average Russian citizen.

I'm sure you are...aaaall the way from the US.

TR1 wrote:This thread is the weirdest amalgamation of obsessively pro-Russian non Russians. o.O

Care to explain?!
I mean, I know you never do, but I just had to ask.
See, what I thought I brought to this forum, is balanced opinion...but if you could point to my (as perceived by you) bias, I'd be much obliged.

sepheronx wrote:Good post Vann.


Problem is, the companies that can do those things for Russia, have small budgets.  MCST has a small budget, and I doubt Russia's video game industries and movie industries are floating in roubles in order to produce high quality stuff.  So there needs to be some sort of incentives to industries to create these goods.

I think Russia can do it.. if you look at Canada but also South korea ,its government is heavily involved in the gaming industry ,and produce
many  thousands of jobs of high salary jobs directly or indirectly through the entertainment industry. South Korea for example is pretty much today the world leader in Online Games today and they are just a tiny nation. Ubisoft Canada pretty makes in revenues about US $ 2 billions per year.not counting the thousands of indirect created jobs of, which is not really bad..just for one single publisher company. All this helps dramatically to raise the world image of the nation. womens perhaps are more attracted to the Fashion that Europe produce ,but mens prefer entertainment and sports. Russia needs to create an industry that could attract young generations . Is no surprise at all why most former soviet republics wants to be part of the west no matter what. Because they have almost everything they want.. minus the energy of course.  

Balanced opinion and this forum? Oh come on.

Farthest thing away from it.
I don't even need to explain it, just one look at the obsessive defense of Russia, constant, desperate bashing of America present in almost every political related thread. By non-Russians too, which is the weird part.
You guys can have your naive opinions of Russia all you want (yes, I consider such blind defense of any large national government, American, Russian, whatever to be naive), but stop embarrassing yourselves with the constant barbs at America. Especially when it is ignorant in the extreme.

The logical leaps you guys go to defend Russia in every instance is creepy. Once again, this is coming from a born Russian citizen.

From reading this forum, one would think Russia is the rising star of the world. What can I say, enjoy the fantasy I guess. I hate to live in a much more complex reality.

macedonian wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

How can one disagree with that?   
Americans only have "made-up" fiat money.
Sadly most Americans are really nice, good, and honest people.
It's just that they're lately not brave enough to take their country back from the Oligarchs that rule them.
Or stupid enough to buy into this "patriotic" line against themselves and against the whole world...
It's...Similar to Ukraine...that.

Yes, well, Russians are also for the most part decent people. But they are not brave enough to have an actual functional political system not run by thieves and crooks.

sepheronx wrote:

TR1 wrote:Balanced opinion and this forum? Oh come on.

Farthest thing away from it.
I don't even need to explain it, just one look at the obsessive defense of Russia, constant, desperate bashing of America present in almost every political related thread. By non-Russians too, which is the weird part.
You guys can have your naive opinions of Russia all you want (yes, I consider such blind defense of any large national government, American, Russian, whatever to be naive), but stop embarrassing yourselves with the constant barbs at America. Especially when it is ignorant in the extreme.

The logical leaps you guys go to defend Russia in every instance is creepy. Once again, this is coming from a born Russian citizen.

From reading this forum, one would think Russia is the rising star of the world. What can I say, enjoy the fantasy I guess. I hate to live in a much more complex reality.

So then why stick to the forums?  Why not just go over to MP.net then?  Sorry, but it really does not take a genius to figure out what is happening in US or at least their foreign policy.  Add to that, it really does not take a genius either to look at what is happening in Russia too.  So I do not understand your point, if you got one that is.

What is happening in both cases? Can you synthesize it in a few words for me?

And my point was simple. You guys want to mentally masturbate to Russia all day long? Go for it. The constant insults to Americans and premonitions of how bad things are going for the US are laughable.
How many people here even spend any time in both nations? Not that you can't have an opinion on it, but still, it sure comes off as silly.

TR1 wrote:Balanced opinion and this forum? Oh come on.

Farthest thing away from it.
I don't even need to explain it, just one look at the obsessive defense of Russia, constant, desperate bashing of America present in almost every political related thread. By non-Russians too, which is the weird part.
You guys can have your naive opinions of Russia all you want (yes, I consider such blind defense of any large national government, American, Russian, whatever to be naive), but stop embarrassing yourselves with the constant barbs at America. Especially when it is ignorant in the extreme.

The logical leaps you guys go to defend Russia in every instance is creepy. Once again, this is coming from a born Russian citizen.

Whenever you decide to answer my post POINT-BY-POINT will be fine.
All this generalizing reminds me of people attacking Islam for the beheadings that [only] radicals commit.
I'm sure YOU now understand...don't you...?

While I generally agree with that cynical look @ "liberal" governments, Russia still manages to outdo most of them in how dysfunctional its political climate is.

macedonian wrote:

Firebird wrote:

macedonian wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Money buy souls and Americans doesn't have them anymore, that's for sure   

How can one disagree with that?   
Americans only have "made-up" fiat money.
Sadly most Americans are really nice, good, and honest people.
It's just that they're lately not brave enough to take their country back from the Oligarchs that rule them.
Or stupid enough to buy into this "patriotic" line against themselves and against the whole world...
It's...Similar to Ukraine...that.

I'd say 40% SEEM to be ok. And 40% are monsters, in political/international morality terms. The other 20% I don't know.

BUT, look how its the same shit with each side. Democrat OR Republican.
Its hard to imagine a majority of Germans committing the atrocities of Nazism these days. Altho I have no doubt some proportion of them could.

Looking at America, imagining a financial crash, deaths on THEIR soil for once, and I'd have no doubt that vast numbers of them could be capable of truly heinous crimes. Infact, already many of them vote for genocidal politicians.

Well, can't really argue with the truth I guess...
I know what I know from the time I've been there, and that's far from recent.
Still, I feel sorry for how people have changed for the worse, especially since I've seen their good side.

But even if there's one honest and good person left, there's still hope.
And hope dies last...

They are perfectly fine people as long as you don't press them but if they been pressed...
once I was a close witness of an industrial dispute and those guys especially the German immigrants with the Evangelical beliefs that usually where the most polite and kind
where the face of Satan on Earth LITERALLY.
Over paranoid ethology and twisted reality and unending witch hunting...can't imagine.