The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

Werewolf wrote:

arpakola wrote:

there he is ..

Here in germany there is a new Newspeech method trying to discredit people. It is called "Putin understander", if now someone has understanding or wants to understand a foreign president is now a bad guy someone who is supposedly a warmonger.

heh, yes and no my friend. There are simply a lot of Russians living here. You have to keep that in mind as well. To speak fluently German, it's not required to be a ethnicaly German. I've got a plenty of Russian friends alone in the university I study. It's a bit more complex than how you want to portray it. Those people are as active on the net as we two are. Just look at all the facebook activity alone. People are people. They've got brains and feelings, emotions and affiliations. To claim they are all payed ( though you can't simply rule out that there could be a lot of such organized groups on both sides that would be operated in said countries, not here ) is redicilous. The people are just expressing their own opinion and of course want to promote their countries more than NATO or USA or EU and thus try to justify the actions of their countries and try to discredit the opposing side. That's absolutly natural. It's real life. Germans themselves are anything from being really politicaly educated ( I see that myself ) rather confused on who to side with and both the pro-West and pro-East propaganda are trying to take advantige over it. This is the problem with Germans: they are kinda like they disapprove what's going on over there but have no clue what is actualy going on. In general US is seen as warmongerer because of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc and people are aware of their propaganda and also assume they had their hands in that Ukraine affair, but that's not realy relevant. What is relevant to them is that a full scale war might break out that's why they don't approve that the West is going for a standoff with Russia. After all it's a pretty cozy life here, you've got a home, heating, job, benefit from no supply shortage. After all they needed decades to achieve that. But criticising US for trying to "police" the world, when something happens in Africa like the Boko Haram thing, they are like "What is US waiting for ? send in troops allready !" <- that are Germans. Confused, no clear position and that's because lack of political education. Just confront them on topics like Lybia for example or Saudi Arabia.

But to topic. I like the fact that both sides love to boast like they were the fully righteous man in the room. - allways pathetic to watch. It looks so damn silly, loosing all respect. If you want people to respect you at least do it better than the opposing side and be honest. Sad.

TheGeorgian wrote:
But to topic. I like the fact that both sides love to boast like they were the fully righteous man in the room. - allways pathetic to watch and it's really sad that the EU/NATO is playing that game too. It looks so damn silly, loosing all respect. If you want people to respect you at least do it better than the opposing side and be honest. Sad.

You do realize that usage of exact this phrase, or how you phrased it, sounds just like poor propaganda?


"Sad that EU/NATO uses it TOO".

That sounds like only russian side is tending to use pure propaganda and EU/NATO only uses it sometimes. That is exactly how your phrase sounded.

Werewolf wrote:
That sounds like only russian side is tending to use pure propaganda and EU/NATO only uses it sometimes. That is exactly how your phrase sounded.

Yeah I just realised it when checking through my comment. No I didn't want to imply only Russia was using that all the time. My bad. Edit.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-24/putin-scores-another-historic-victory-austria-signs-south-stream-pipeline-deal-defia
Putin Scores Another Historic Victory: Austria Signs South Stream Pipeline Deal In Defiance Of Europe

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comandate Yiarosh..

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http://ria.ru/world/20140624/1013440019.html
Госдеп: США поддерживают "федеративную" Украину

xe xe ...

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/06/228369.htm

QUESTION: But if true, how do you view this Syrian role in Iraq?
MS. HARF: We’re still seeing if it’s true. And if we can confirm it, I’ll probably have more to say then.
QUESTION: Right. So it is correct that you support a united federal Ukraine too, right?
MS. HARF: That is correct, Matt.
QUESTION: It is correct. Okay.  

http://www.interfax.ru/world/382484

if you dont jump you are a Russian-moscal

 
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So Gubarev calls Borodai traitor ??

74% of Germans oppose permanent NATO bases in Poland and Baltics



Nearly three-quarters of Germans oppose having permanent NATO military bases in Poland and the Baltic states as a buffer against Russia, a new poll reveals. The opinion reflects a growing trend within Europe opposing further NATO eastern expansion.

In the Forsa poll for the Internationale Politik magazine's latest edition slated for Friday, 74 percent of those surveyed were against the idea, while only 18 percent supported it, Reuters reports. Opposition to NATO expansion in Eastern Europe remains highest in former Communist eastern Germany, Forsa said.

Poland, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia - all former members of the Soviet bloc – fear that Russia poses a military threat following recent events in Ukraine, and have asked for further security guarantees from their NATO partners.

Poland first proposed the idea of increasing the US military presence in Eastern Europe, with Polish Defense Minister Tomasz Siemoniak calling on the Pentagon to deploy as many as 10,000 American troops in his country in April.

The Three Baltic States welcomed the idea that same month.

As a result, thousands of NATO troops held exercises in the region earlier this month, NATO warships have intensified patrols in the Baltic Sea, and jet fighters have likewise stepped up their air patrols.

The alliance has tripled the number of fighter jets based in the Baltics and NATO's top military commander, US Air Force General Philip Breedlove, said in May that NATO would consider permanently stationing troops in Eastern Europe.

Russia claims that would violate a 1997 agreement, in which both sides committed to avoid "any potentially threatening build-up of conventional forces in agreed regions of Europe, to include Central and Eastern Europe."

Earlier this month, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said the “artificial attempt” to continue NATO’s eastward expansion would be “counterproductive.”

Germany is not the only country which feels uncomfortable about an increased NATO presence in Eastern Europe.

Earlier this month, two eastern European states – Slovakia and the Czech Republic – both refused to host foreign troops and military bases on their territories.

The announcements came just days after US President Barack Obama announced a plan to invest $1 billion dollars in ramping up its military presence in Eastern Europe.

http://rt.com/news/168400-germany-opposes-nato-bases/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

My oh my, the "NATO coalition of the STRONG!!1!" is looking more and more incompetent and corrupt; Romanian parliament is calling for the Romanian president to resign because his brother has close intimate links with organized crime lol...     

Romania president faces resignation calls over brother's corruption scandal

Romanian President Traian Basescu faces calls to resign amid allegations that his brother accepted bribes from organized crime. Basescu has made fighting corruption a centerpiece of his presidency.



President Basescu on Thursday denied involvement in the corruption scandal, saying that his brother should face trial just like any other citizen.

"I can assure you that between the need to strengthen the judiciary and the natural urge to defend my brother I will always choose the former," the president (pictured above) said.

On Wednesday, a local television station broadcast excerpts of a video, in which Mircea Basescu supposedly admits to receiving 250,000 euros ($340, 544) in bribe money from organized crime.

Mircea allegedly received the money in exchange for helping crime boss Sandu Anghel reduce his prison term. Anghel was sentenced to more than eight years in prison for nearly stabbing one of his nephews to death in a bar in 2011.

Calls for resignation

President Basescu admitted to knowing that his brother Mircea was under pressure from organized crime, but said he was not involved in the bribe.

"I have never talked with my brother about backing Sandu Anghel in the trials he was facing," Basescu told journalists.

"I urge the policemen, prosecutors or judges who were in charge of this case to say if there was the slightest interference from me or on my behalf," he said.

But Prime Minister Victor Ponta's leftist government has called for President Basescu to step down, saying it "would be a natural gesture to eliminate any pressure on the judiciary."

slk/hc (AP, dpa, Reuters)

http://www.dw.de/romania-president-faces-resignation-calls-over-brothers-corruption-scandal/a-17723128

More embarrassing news coverage for NATO, foreign ministers stuck in air traffic control strike in Brussels, goes to show Brussels isn't a land of "milk-and-honey" that EU and NATO likes to falsely claim:

Kerry takes train to Paris as work stoppage grounds planes in Brussels

(Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, grounded by an air controllers' work stoppage at Brussels airport, hopped on a train for Paris late Wednesday to meet Middle Eastern foreign ministers.

The two-hour stoppage disrupted air traffic at Brussels airport where Kerry's plane was waiting to take him to Paris for talks on Thursday that will focus on the regional repercussions of the insurgency by Sunni militants in Iraq.

"Due to a potential delay in flights departing Brussels as a result of an air traffic control strike, Secretary Kerry will take the train from Brussels to Paris this evening," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said before he left Brussels.

The Brussels Airport website said no flights would take off or land between 6:45 p.m. and 8:45 p.m. because of the stoppage.

Kerry, who was attending a meeting at NATO headquarters where foreign ministers were dealing with the crisis in Ukraine, left for the train station immediately after a news conference.

He boarded a 6:13 p.m. train headed for Paris' Gare du Nord accompanied by his security and top staff, including Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland.

Kerry spent the hour-and-22-minute ride talking to his aides about world events and the history of the French countryside he traveled through, according to a reporter traveling with Kerry.

Kerry's family ancestral estate is in Saint Briac, Brittany where he spent summers as a child and learned to speak French. (Reporting by Lesley Wroughton; Editing by James Dalgleish)

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/06/25/usa-kerry-train-idINL2N0P624J20140625

I would not consider US and NATO actions in Ukraine a failure ,when it comes to their objectives.. they now
have most of Ukraine and could deploy Patriots missiles there in the border of Russia and declare a no fly zone
in any major war over Russian military bases in Rostov On Don zone.. This is a Tragedy ,a major Failure if u ask me.
That is Russia to not enjoy of any security over the airspace in own territory? are you kidding me?
and the security of Russia have been seriously threatened like never even more than Cuban missile crisis. Because now they have
NATO bandits in power in Ukraine and they could be used as a meat shield to fight Russia.. or conduct sabotage ,ie.. launch cruise missiles
to Russian capital to provoke Russia invasion and damage its economy.. Ukraine now can even start developing nuclear weapons for
self defense.. what is Russia going to do?

So if you  ask me Putin should be fired for incompetence .. He allowed Yakunovych to be overthrow by 5,000 euromaidanuts and banderas ,when he could very very easily help him restore order with undercover strong security and allow yakunovych hold power for years until next elections at least..  Problem is Russia is always a re-active nation and wait first a problem to happen ,to react to it. Even if Yakunovych had no chance in next elections ,still democracy will have been possible ,and for example The Eastern and Southern Zones will have Pro Russian Governors and majors with pro Russian police... holding Yakunovych in power will also have helped Russia to earn a couple of more years for preparations for a conflict with Ukraine..

But Putin with its "Partners" policy screwed big time.. Signing the China gas pipeline now is another failure ,that should have been done
a decade ago.. So that now they will be signing a bigger contract . Putin is only good in diplomacy and holding pressure
and nothing else.. he is a total Failure in preventing conflicts to happen..  Like it is Ukraine , Syria or IRAQ.  Syria for example
paid Russia many US $ billions for an arms shipment of S-300s with Mig-29s and modern tanks... Putin should had a FUCKING CLUE
that after IRAQ it was going to be a matter of time the americans will attack Syria... and then you have IRAQ invasion of ISIS and the IRAQ
airforce caught with no planes to combat them...  How can Putin fail so much?  He is an idiot and should be fired for incompetent .
To be President of Russia you need someone who can be 3 steps ahead of any movement of Russian enemies.. and not just always playing
catchup . Sadly i do not see any other potential leader for Russia.. probably the chechen leader will be the best option..  and that will be
funny indeed if he ever runs for president..

In short i dont like Putin ,reactive policy of waiting something to happen to do something . Is disastrous . Russia needs another nikita krushev ,to draw a line for NATO where they can move or not.. But as if now .. the leader that Russia have allows their allies to be attacked
and at the very least not properly equip them to fight.

magnumcromagnon wrote:Members of this forum I need your help to make a proper list of NATO and EU failures in the past 4 months, preferably in a numbered list form.

Here's a list off the top of my head:

1.) "F*CK the EU", by Victoria Nuland.

2.) "Poland has been giving America a blow job, and getting nothing in return!", by Radoslaw Sikorsky.

3.) The president of Romania, a puppet of NATO exposed for having family ties with organized crime.

4.) "We'll bring the US Navy to the Belarus coast line", by Jen "Nutz" Psaki.

5.) "SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!1!!!!1!!" that lacks any teeth.

6.) Massive military vehicle losses by Kiev, and Ukrainian soldiers refusing to fight.

7.) Private phone conservation between mayor of Tallinn, Estonia and Baroness Ashley, admitting that the so-called "Yaknokovich sniper slayings" were probably done by snipers from Right Sector.

8.) France refusing to cancel the Mistral deal, South America, Africa, the Majority of Asia, and Western mega-corporations refusing to alienate Russia over Ukraine. Euro-skeptic and anti-Merkel parties making major gains in EU elections, many of which are Russia friendly.

9.) South Stream pipeline deal between Russia and Austria signed anyway despite pressure, while the whole "US will replace Russia in Europe with fracking technology" exposed as a complete fraud.

10.) NATO's plan to seize Crimea and turn it in to a US/NATO naval base failed, as well as a plan to use Crimea's gas fields to subvert Russia's South Stream pipeline project with the White Stream project, which ended up failing miserably where Russia ended up obtaining the Crimean gas fields.

not excactly what you asked .. but here is the Ukranian aviation losses..  
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Country=UR&page=1

WOW! How's this for arrogance...  

Kerry demands Russia action on Ukraine 'in hours'
US Secretary of State John Kerry has called on Russia to show "within hours" it is working to disarm separatist militants in eastern Ukraine.

BBC wrote:He was speaking to reporters in Paris a day before a shaky ceasefire was due to end in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

Russia denies it has let pro-Moscow separatists and heavy weaponry cross its border into eastern Ukraine.

The US and EU are threatening to impose further sanctions if Russia does not do more to defuse the situation.

Separatist leaders in Donetsk and Luhansk have declared independence.

It has emerged that leading Russian officials are meeting in Moscow to consider the viability of both regions as independent entities.

BBC

This whole thing reminds me of the start of WW1.

I'll just steal this from Zg18 over at mp.net.
Very, very informative. Must watch!



And transcript in English.

Basically Kerry is sabotaging peace negotiations,between Europe and Russia,by making ridiculous demands ,that he Knows Russia
cannot do ,even if they had such kind of influence on the Rebels. Asking Russia to take the side of Ukraine and turn its back on the Rebels
defending civilians against Nazis is wishful thinking .

Vann7 wrote:Basically Kerry is sabotaging peace negotiations,between Europe and Russia,by making ridiculous demands ,that he Knows Russia
cannot do ,even if they had such kind of influence on the Rebels. Asking Russia to take the side of Ukraine and turn its back on the Rebels
defending civilians against Nazis is wishful thinking .

Precisely!
That's why I said it reminded me of how WW1 started.

  but Im afraid will come down asap from youdube

ISIL IRAQ .. WARNING HARD!! GRAPRHIC !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItY5vF52hU
ON YOUR OWN RISK..

arpakola wrote:  but Im afraid will come down asap from youdube

ISIL IRAQ .. WARNING  HARD!! GRAPRHIC !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItY5vF52hU
ON YOUR OWN RISK..

We have a thread on Iraq

And BTW, the contrast of human existence, never seizes to amaze me...you have someone like Dostoyevsky on one hand, and on the other...well..you have these poor excuses of sub-human species that call themselves human. Fuck 'em!

Russia and Others Seek Extended Ukraine Truce, but Separatists Balk
By ANDREW ROTH and DAVID M. HERSZENHORN JUNE 25, 2014

NYT wrote:DONETSK, Ukraine — The leaders of Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany on Wednesday called for extending the truce between government and rebel troops in eastern Ukraine, even as separatist leaders said that the peace process had collapsed.

Faced with the threat of additional economic sanctions from Washington, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia discussed an extension of the cease-fire, which is to expire on Friday, in a telephone call with Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, President François Hollande of France and Ukraine’s new president, Petro O. Poroshenko.

He said Russia had made a commitment to ease the conflict by revoking an order that provided for the use of the Russian Army in Ukraine.

Whole thing here

Good quality opinion:



' matter of fact, I could sign at the bottom too.
The guy hit the nail on the head there.

Actually i fully welcome Ukraine to join the EU ..Is the only way the idiots can see ..really SEE ,that joining the EU
was not to magically solve their problems and turn their streets into Gold. When they see they are all jobless and price of everything is higher and when no longer they have food or anything to eat ,and the US Congress stop financing them ,is when the real revolution will start.
They all the Pro EU tards will feel cheated and deceived.

Clash of civilizations...

Vann7 wrote:Actually i fully welcome Ukraine to join the EU ..Is the only way the idiots can see ..really SEE ,that joining the EU
was not to magically solve their problems and turn their streets into Gold. When they see they are all jobless and price of everything is higher and when no longer they have food or anything to eat ,and the US Congress stop financing them ,is when the real revolution will start.
They all the Pro EU tards will feel cheated and deceived.

Don't be naive man.
Just go over to mp.net and see the Romanians defending the EU and NATO.
And the Portuguese.
And the Poles.
And the Slovaks.

Propaganda is a mighty tool. And the west has mastered it to the extreme.
They'll always find some 'uncivil element' to 'civilize' (with bombs preferably) and keep the focus off the dire financial situation of the masses, and the fact that the EU is nothing less of an oligarchy than Ukraine is...as I said - Propaganda is a mighty tool.

More of those 'pro-European elements' who were so keen on 'democracy' as to initiate a coup d'etat:



See how bright the future is for Ukraine?
BTW that's supposedly hotel "Tourist" in Kyiv where the election of a new head of Trade Unions was held, and a head supposed to be elected.
I'm thinking these 'democratic warriors' weren't pleased with the candidates, and decided to go 'all democratic' on them....Maidan style!

--------------------
Edit:
Video of the democratic event:

Oh, and there never were negotiations, you see...merely 'consultations'.

"У нас не переговорный процесс, а консультации. Потому что власть не может сесть за стол переговоров с ними (представителями ДНР и ЛНР - ИФ)", - подчеркнул Л.Кучма.

Yep, it's that old clown Kutchma.  

Interfax Ukraine

macedonian wrote:

Vann7 wrote:Actually i fully welcome Ukraine to join the EU ..Is the only way the idiots can see ..really SEE ,that joining the EU
was not to magically solve their problems and turn their streets into Gold. When they see they are all jobless and price of everything is higher and when no longer they have food or anything to eat ,and the US Congress stop financing them ,is when the real revolution will start.
They all the Pro EU tards will feel cheated and deceived.

Don't be naive man.
Just go over to mp.net and see the Romanians defending the EU and NATO.
And the Portuguese.
And the Poles.
And the Slovaks.

Propaganda is a mighty tool. And the west has mastered it to the extreme.
They'll always find some 'uncivil element' to 'civilize' (with bombs preferably) and keep the focus off the dire financial situation of the masses, and the fact that the EU is nothing less of an oligarchy than Ukraine is...as I said - Propaganda is a mighty tool.

People concede only to power. Raze eg Poland to the ground and all 'll see that finally East surpassed West.
Inevitably this is where it goes. A showcase like Kosovo '99 is what we need and we will make it when we will be strong enough....