The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

The militias fighting in eastern Ukraine against the government troops have no weapons systems that could have shot down the Malaysia Airlines plane on Thursday, the General Prosecutor of Ukraine, Vitaly Yaryoma, stated citing a military report submitted to President Petro Poroshenko.

Considering the high altitude the MH17 was flying, it could not have been taken down by a portable anti-aircraft missile or anti-aircraft cannon, which the Ukrainian militia have been using to attack Ukrainian military aircraft.

Earlier there were reports that the militia had captured a Buk missile launcher, which could have done it, but Kiev insisted that the system was out of order and could not be repaired by the militia.

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Kiev has accused Russia of downing its Su-25 fighter jet on June (July?) 16. Andrey Lysenko, spokesman of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council, said a Russian military jet shot down a plane that was fulfilling a military operation over the east of Ukraine at 19:00 local time. Earlier Kiev blamed the attack on self-defense forces.

This is not the first accusation of Russia’s direct military involvement in the conflict. Russia’s Defense Ministry declined to comment.

On Wednesday, self-defense forces claimed they had shot down two of the Ukrainian Air Force Su-25 fighter jets.

RT

Kiev authorities attempt to shift the blame for the catastrophe Malaysian Boeing 777 on the DPR look “ridiculous” according to DPR representative.

Claims that an intercepted conversation recording emerged from the Cossacks brigade and the actual language and tone of the conversation, “are an example of the most ridiculous attempt to shift the blame on the DPR and an example of the most helpless unprofessional propaganda," DPR spokesman Sergey Kavtaradze, told Ria Novosti.

onwiththewar wrote:Here comes the possible US military response.

Last night, my American friend said the US will not sit and watch their dollars drop to zero and they would definitely start a world war. Here it comes.

sepheronx wrote:Apparently the idiot PM in Australia is already blaming Putin....

Gotta love this.  No innocence until proven guilty.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Regular wrote:I still think it was rebels who brought the plane down, but it was mainly AC fault.
I doubt there was fighter jet escort, we will see when black box information is revealed. It's a day of joy for Ukr gov and big hit for rebels/Russia

Despite the fact that Kiev declared a No Fly Zone over Eastern Ukraine 9 days earlier (July 8th)? It's strange how everyone seems to gloss over this piece of empirical evidence.

arpakola wrote:It is proven that Kiev tampered the flight routing details of the Malaysian flight of 17/7/04 !!  
and here is the proof

the diagarms below inticate the route of 14th - 15th- 16- July of the Malaysian flights..






===========================================

and here is the route of the flight on 17 July  where we can clearly see that the plain was driven over Donbass, where a day ago Ukranian BUKs were made operational in Donetsk area


what else can we say ??

Regular wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Regular wrote:I still think it was rebels who brought the plane down, but it was mainly AC fault.
I doubt there was fighter jet escort, we will see when black box information is revealed. It's a day of joy for Ukr gov and big hit for rebels/Russia

Despite the fact that Kiev declared a No Fly Zone over Eastern Ukraine 9 days earlier (July 8th)? It's strange how everyone seems to gloss over this piece of empirical evidence.

as for evidence i suggest you to look at flight records. Pretty active for no fly zone.

fragmachine wrote:IMO all airliners should avoid flying above Ukr airspace. Thats it. If pilots aren't mentally ill they should avoid any contact with Ukr airspace, not mentioning just Donbass. I mean whole Ukraine.

a Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational in the region, the Russian Defense Ministry said, contradicting Kiev’s statements. The battery was deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner, the ministry said in a statement. It said radiation from the battery’s radar was detected by the Russian military. “The Russian equipment detected throughout July 17 the activity of a Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30km south of Donetsk],” the ministry said in a statement.
The ministry said the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery deployed in the region, which was at a firing distance from the plane’s flight path.

Paul @There's evidence that around 10 previous flights before the Malaysian flight were rerouted from that region. Yet this flight was guided to fly over the airspace where there was fighting.

Regular wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Regular wrote:I still think it was rebels who brought the plane down, but it was mainly AC fault.
I doubt there was fighter jet escort, we will see when black box information is revealed. It's a day of joy for Ukr gov and big hit for rebels/Russia

Despite the fact that Kiev declared a No Fly Zone over Eastern Ukraine 9 days earlier (July 8th)? It's strange how everyone seems to gloss over this piece of empirical evidence.

as for evidence i suggest you to look at flight records. Pretty active for no fly zone.

The Ukrainian civil aeronautical service had closed on July 8 airspace east of the country, following the fighting against pro-Russian separatists, allowing the transit of aircraft only above 7900 meters. The Malaysian Boeing was flying at 10 thousand feet of altitude.

http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/mondo/2014/07/17/aereo-di-linea-malese-caduto-in-ucraina_3ca655eb-a994-4bcd-9d85-cd9f2e15a365.html

TheGeorgian wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Regular wrote:I still think it was rebels who brought the plane down, but it was mainly AC fault.
I doubt there was fighter jet escort, we will see when black box information is revealed. It's a day of joy for Ukr gov and big hit for rebels/Russia

Despite the fact that Kiev declared a No Fly Zone over Eastern Ukraine 9 days earlier (July 8th)? It's strange how everyone seems to gloss over this piece of empirical evidence.

apparently nobody gives a shaite because the flight activity was pretty high according to record before and when it happened despite the "declared" no fly zone. So it's no argument. Blamed should be the ones responsible for allowing their planes to pass a damn war zone in first place.

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Oh boy ...Again people should read my earlier posts before jumping to conclusions, I already pointed out that Kiev allowed flights above 8km and the Malaysian passenger plane was confirmed to be flying at a altitude height of 3km:

http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/mondo/2014/07/17/aereo-di-linea-malese-caduto-in-ucraina_3ca655eb-a994-4bcd-9d85-cd9f2e15a365.html

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Oh boy ...Again people should read my earlier posts before jumping to conclusions, I already pointed out that Kiev allowed flights above 8km and the Malaysian passenger plane was confirmed to be flying at a altitude height of 3km:

http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/mondo/2014/07/17/aereo-di-linea-malese-caduto-in-ucraina_3ca655eb-a994-4bcd-9d85-cd9f2e15a365.html

Wasn't it flying at 10,000 m and not at 10,000 ft = 3 km?

Of course, even with it flying at 10,000 m, the crime is still an intentional one perpetrated by the Nazi Ukrainian terrorists and their "handlers".

CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED

10:21 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos

“Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”

10:24 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Ojo! Que puede ser un derribo B777 Malaysia Airlines en ukraine, 280 pasajeros

“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuidado! Kiev tiene lo que buscaba

“Warning! Kiev have what they wanted”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Vuelven a tomar la torre de control en Kiev

“[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev”

10:27 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B777 de Malaysia Airlines desapareció del radar, no hubo comunicación de ninguna anomalia, confirmado

“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”

10:30 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Avión derribado, derribados, derribado no accidente

“Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”

10:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Kiev, tiene lo que buscaba, lo dije en los primeros tw, kiev es responsable @ActualidadRT

“Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Un accidente muy normal no es, no están amenazando en la misma torre del aeropuerto de kiev,

“An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nos van a quitar, nuestros tlf y demás de un momento a otro

“they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment”

10:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Antes de que me quiten el tlf o me rompan la cabeza, derribado por Kiev

“Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”

11:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nosotros tenemos la confirmación. Avión derribado, la autoridad de kiev, ya tiene la información, derribado, estamos tranquilos ahora

“We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”

11:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Que hace personal extranjero con autoridades de kiev en la torre? Recopilando toda la información

“What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information”

11:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuando sea posible sigo escribiendo

“When possible I´ll keep writing”

11:48 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,

The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,

11:54 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Sí las autoridades de kiev, quieren decir la verdad, esta recogido 2 cazas volaron muy cerca minutos antes , no lo derribo un caza

“If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

“Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

“7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ”

12:01 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

“all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”

13:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

“Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian”

13:29 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .

“Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.”

13:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

“Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from”

13:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

“Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]”

13:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos

“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”

13:43 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo

“Airspace closed”

13:45 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo, por miedo a más derribos

“Airspace is closed, more downings feared”

15:17 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Control militar entrega ahora mismo de forma oficial que el avión fue derribado por misil

“military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile”

15:23 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El informe oficial firmado por las autoridades militares de control de kiev ya lo tiene el gobierno,,,, , derribado

“Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”

15:26 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En el informe se indica de donde abría salido el misil, y se especifica que no proviene de las autodefensa en las zonas rebeldes

“The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas”

15:34 – 17 de jul. de 2014Los radares militares si recogieron los datos del misil lanzado al avión, los radares civiles no

“Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t”

15:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los altos mandos militares no ordenaron el lanzamiento del misil, ,,alguien se le fue la mano en nombre de ukraine

“military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Para el que no lo sepa, digamos así, hay militares a las órdenes del ministro de defensa y militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior

“For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

“The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .”

16:06 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

“Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,”

16:07 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares que si lo sabían y otros mandos que no,

“military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”

16:08 – 17 de jul. de 2014 290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero

“290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money”

16:09 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos

“Thw way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made ​​us think that they [made it]”

16:10 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La cara de los militares que llegaron más tarde diciendo pero que habéis echo, no dejo dudas

“The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts”

16:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Es tal la decadencia que los militares acompañados de extranjeros que llegaron primero nos llegaron a pedir que dijéramos su versión

“Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version”

16:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nuestra respuesta, fue, estos radares no recogen el lanzamiento de misiles, los militares si, ya no quedaban dudas

“Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts”

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Oh boy ...Again people should read my earlier posts before jumping to conclusions, I already pointed out that Kiev allowed flights above 8km and the Malaysian passenger plane was confirmed to be flying at a altitude height of 3km:

http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/mondo/2014/07/17/aereo-di-linea-malese-caduto-in-ucraina_3ca655eb-a994-4bcd-9d85-cd9f2e15a365.html

Wasn't it flying at 10,000 m and not at 10,000 ft = 3 km?

Of course, even with it flying at 10,000 m, the crime is still an intentional one perpetrated by the Nazi Ukrainian terrorists and their "handlers".

Well the link to the Italian news site says it was at 10,000 feet which equates to 3km altitude, some others news sites say it was at 10km...either way if it was under 8km altitude it would of been shot down because it falls within the No Fly Zone, if it was at a height 10km it's more likely a Buk battery shot it down than a MANPAD, and in Eastern Ukraine Kiev military/paramilitary have 27 Buk complexes compared to 1 Rebel Buk complex, which means Kiev is 27x  as likely to have shot down the passenger plane (let's not get even started on who has more corresponding radars and which military personnel are better trained and more capable of using them) ...either way you slice it's more likely that Kiev shot the plane down.

arpakola wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Oh boy ...Again people should read my earlier posts before jumping to conclusions, I already pointed out that Kiev allowed flights above 8km and the Malaysian passenger plane was confirmed to be flying at a altitude height of 3km:

http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/mondo/2014/07/17/aereo-di-linea-malese-caduto-in-ucraina_3ca655eb-a994-4bcd-9d85-cd9f2e15a365.html

Wasn't it flying at 10,000 m and not at 10,000 ft = 3 km?

Of course, even with it flying at 10,000 m, the crime is still an intentional one perpetrated by the Nazi Ukrainian terrorists and their "handlers".

Well the link to the Italian news site says it was at 10,000 feet which equates to 3km altitude, some others news sites say it was at 10km...either way if it was under 8km altitude it would of been shot down because it falls within the No Fly Zone, if it was at a height 10km it's more likely a Buk battery shot it down than a MANPAD, and in Eastern Ukraine Kiev military/paramilitary have 27 Buk complexes compared to 1 Rebel Buk complex, which means Kiev is 27x  as likely to have shot down the passenger plane (let's not get even started on who has more corresponding radars and which military personnel are better trained and more capable of using them) ...either way you slice it's more likely that Kiev shot the plane down.

it was 10.000 KM  not Kft

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Can someone give an update on the situation on the battlefield?.