Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

yeah like said the azeris are not friends or allys, the only thing they are, are potential enemies.
but a second hand "friend and ally" who has also no real loyalty to us is also not worth a major war.. everything screams to "captain russia" again, come to the rescue captain russia... Rolling Eyes

like after their war:

Azeris: becouse of the fucking russian swines we coulden't win who "supported armenia" fuck russia!!
Armenians: the russians left the azeris all the weapons after the soviet union and russian mercenaries were on the azeri side! fuck russia!

what can you do, what can you do...

sepheronx wrote:

Armenian wrote:

sepheronx wrote:If you guys are really mad at Russia, why not protest? Send a clear message to them about displeasure of arms sales.

I imagine if they cut it though, Russia would lose influence over Azerbaijan, and there may not be a ceasefire next time.

It's not like we didn't before.

Check Sarkisyan's statement from today,
http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/209719/

There is an huge western effort in Armenia to change it's direction towards EU. They have many media outlets here, some Armenian looking western financed organisations etc.

But unlike Georgia and Ukraine people in Armenia doesn't have dreams about being in EU or joining to NATO. People always been Pro-Russia here and that's why this situation did/does a huge damage to the Russian image which we had before.

Anyway of course every country has it's own interest. If Russia thinks their position is in their interest then let it be so.

Here is the problem though. Russia either donates, or gives good prices on weapons at really long, really low interest rates to Armenia. Azerbaijan gets none of that. I usually Armenia end up with weapons to counter Azerbaijan (Iskander, S-300). You guys have a problem with Azerbaijan, not Russia. As well, Russia shares borders with Azerbaijan so it isn't a clear cut case here either. But with what Russia has given (they haven't recognized Karabakh as far as I am aware), some of you Armenians sure sound ungrateful. I mean, let's face facts here: Karabakh isn't on Russian agenda, but they still gone out to make sure both agree to stop the fighting and return back. Armenia will not outright get attacked. Karabakh on the other hand might (an has/is). playing the US tactic of "either with us or against us" may not work well for you in the end.  

Russia also needs to keep Azerbaijan in their and Iran field as well or Turkey will reign supreme there. That will work even less in Armenia's favor if they fully fall to Turkeys command. As well, your president should bitch about how Germany also sold weapons to Azerbaijan. Oh well, much easier to blame Russia. Always is. Maybe it is better to feed Armenia to the dogs then? Cause EU helps Azerbaijan, NATO helps Azerbaijan. Russia helps Armenia but sells stuff to Azerbaijan. The only country that helps Armenia seems to be public enemy number 1 for Armenians. I know if Russia told Armenia they can go wherever they want, and EU and NATO turned a blind eye to Azerbaijan and Turkey taking turns on Armenia, it would also be Russia's fault.....

Armenian wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Armenian wrote:

sepheronx wrote:If you guys are really mad at Russia, why not protest? Send a clear message to them about displeasure of arms sales.

I imagine if they cut it though, Russia would lose influence over Azerbaijan, and there may not be a ceasefire next time.

It's not like we didn't before.

Check Sarkisyan's statement from today,
http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/209719/

There is an huge western effort in Armenia to change it's direction towards EU. They have many media outlets here, some Armenian looking western financed organisations etc.

But unlike Georgia and Ukraine people in Armenia doesn't have dreams about being in EU or joining to NATO. People always been Pro-Russia here and that's why this situation did/does a huge damage to the Russian image which we had before.

Anyway of course every country has it's own interest. If Russia thinks their position is in their interest then let it be so.

Here is the problem though. Russia either donates, or gives good prices on weapons at really long, really low interest rates to Armenia. Azerbaijan gets none of that. I usually Armenia end up with weapons to counter Azerbaijan (Iskander, S-300). You guys have a problem with Azerbaijan, not Russia. As well, Russia shares borders with Azerbaijan so it isn't a clear cut case here either. But with what Russia has given (they haven't recognized Karabakh as far as I am aware), some of you Armenians sure sound ungrateful. I mean, let's face facts here: Karabakh isn't on Russian agenda, but they still gone out to make sure both agree to stop the fighting and return back. Armenia will not outright get attacked. Karabakh on the other hand might (an has/is). playing the US tactic of "either with us or against us" may not work well for you in the end.  

Russia also needs to keep Azerbaijan in their and Iran field as well or Turkey will reign supreme there. That will work even less in Armenia's favor if they fully fall to Turkeys command. As well, your president should bitch about how Germany also sold weapons to Azerbaijan. Oh well, much easier to blame Russia. Always is. Maybe it is better to feed Armenia to the dogs then? Cause EU helps Azerbaijan, NATO helps Azerbaijan. Russia helps Armenia but sells stuff to Azerbaijan. The only country that helps Armenia seems to be public enemy number 1 for Armenians. I know if Russia told Armenia they can go wherever they want, and EU and NATO turned a blind eye to Azerbaijan and Turkey taking turns on Armenia, it would also be Russia's fault.....

Out of cuirosity, what did exactly Germany sell to Azerbaijan? There is an international arms embargo for both Azerbaijan and Armenia. I don't really remember a single thing which has been sold to Azerbaijan by Germany or any other EU country.

PapaDragon wrote:

Armenian wrote:I don't really think our relations can stay as strong as before if Russia continues to sell weapons to Azerbaijan. Armenia itself always remained a trusted ally for Russia. We even stayed togheter about Ukraine crisis and voted in favor of Russia at UN Crimean Resolution .

Selling adversary weapons to Armenia's biggest enemy is a clear betrayal in my opinion. I can't find another word to describe my feelings.

What should Russia have done in your opinion?

Whole thing is back to square one and shooting stopped thanks to Russia.

Was Russia supposed to fight war for Nagorno Karabah? Keep in mind that even Armenia did not send it's military into the fight but Russia somehow should have?

TheGeorgian wrote:.
WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC

Remains of what seemed to be an Azeri Spec Ops team

http://blognews.am/arm/news/358064/

http://hartak.am/arm/n-57023

WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC
.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Okay....

Wut. The hell would she know about anything.

OminousSpudd,

How do you know that she is not an expert on Mi-24P, Shturm-V, and S-8Kor?

If it's long and hard she definitely is qualified. Sorry for the mysoginistic post.

PapaDragon wrote:

Armenian wrote:I don't really think our relations can stay as strong as before if Russia continues to sell weapons to Azerbaijan. Armenia itself always remained a trusted ally for Russia. We even stayed togheter about Ukraine crisis and voted in favor of Russia at UN Crimean Resolution .

Selling adversary weapons to Armenia's biggest enemy is a clear betrayal in my opinion. I can't find another word to describe my feelings.

What should Russia have done in your opinion?

Whole thing is back to square one and shooting stopped thanks to Russia.

Was Russia supposed to fight war for Nagorno Karabah? Keep in mind that even Armenia did not send it's military into the fight but Russia somehow should have?

KoTeMoRe wrote:Haha Armenian griefs are somewhat funny. The biggest single culprit of the recent showdown and emboldening of the Azeri forces has been the Surveillance and drone strike suite that is 100% Israeli. Yet there is no one complaint about it. Nope it`s Rasha bad. Name me one Russian system that has been used to actually cause mayhem on Armenian lines?

The fact is that even the damn SuperMil was an Israeli/SAF upgrade zith BLR/Ukrainian Atgm`s. Wow...guess Rasha is the new Jew, does everything & rules everybody.

Armenian wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Armenian wrote:I don't really think our relations can stay as strong as before if Russia continues to sell weapons to Azerbaijan. Armenia itself always remained a trusted ally for Russia. We even stayed togheter about Ukraine crisis and voted in favor of Russia at UN Crimean Resolution .

Selling adversary weapons to Armenia's biggest enemy is a clear betrayal in my opinion. I can't find another word to describe my feelings.

What should Russia have done in your opinion?

Whole thing is back to square one and shooting stopped thanks to Russia.

Was Russia supposed to fight war for Nagorno Karabah? Keep in mind that even Armenia did not send it's military into the fight but Russia somehow should have?

Nobody is expecting Russia fighting for us. We can defend our lands by ourselves.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Haha Armenian griefs are somewhat funny. The biggest single culprit of the recent showdown and emboldening of the Azeri forces has been the Surveillance and drone strike suite that is 100% Israeli. Yet there is no one complaint about it. Nope it`s Rasha bad. Name me one Russian system that has been used to actually cause mayhem on Armenian lines?

The fact is that even the damn SuperMil was an Israeli/SAF upgrade zith BLR/Ukrainian Atgm`s. Wow...guess Rasha is the new Jew, does everything & rules everybody.

Here is the thing,
Israel is not our ally. Russia is.

There is a huge difference you know?

I don't want to turn this into a discussion. I am not talking on behelf of my country. I am writing my own views and observations and i think i made my point clear.

GarryB wrote:

Pakistan was Americas best ally when it had troops in Afghanistan,

GarryB wrote:
and Iran was always opposed to Israel...

GarryB wrote:
it was just when CIA puppets were in power that they did not talk about it. Reliable or unreliable you said the US does not supply countries that are not friends or allies... the US supplied Iran with F-14s which were not supplied to any other ally... in fact it was not just the US... Iran funded the development of a brand new tank with expensive and powerful new armour called the Challenger... when the Shah was overthrown the British Army got those tanks and the Abrams benefited from the techology developed with Iranian money...

GarryB wrote:
The US is trying to sell F-18s to India and sells F-16s to Pakistan...

GarryB wrote:
Russia has lost its eastern european market and can't afford to be picky when it comes to weapons sales... business is business. If it came to an actual conflict the Russian support both political and military is worth more than a few toys.

The cold war is over... and with eastern europe now in the enemy camp Russia has to sell to countries who still want to buy.

Why can't it have both? Though I suspect if Russia uses polite force to ensure peace then the Azeris might wonder about whether buying Russian hardware is worth it and look to turkey or EU or US.