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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

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    Post  arpakola Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:18 pm

    http://www.iskra.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17647%3Akalesma-oukrania&catid=83%3Aaristera&Itemid=200
    Demonstartion in Athens against Ukranian fascist aggression to Donbass and in support to popular uprising of the people of Donietsk and Lugansk.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 33 BxL6MCHIYAEJqF7

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 33 Yy_1
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    Post  arpakola Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:56 pm

    http://www.sott.net/article/285522-Preliminary-report-on-the-crash-of-flight-MH17-full-of-holes-just-like-the-plane

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 33 Guns_kill
    Preliminary-report-on-the-crash-of-flight-MH17-full-of-holes-just-like-the-plane
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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:25 pm

    An old review about the Ukrainian "volunteers"... well, we know this is the reason why 50,000 Ukrainian troops was defeated by 20.000 Novorossiya insurgents.

    http://soha.vn/quan-su/diem-danh-cac-tieu-doan-tinh-nguyen-danh-thue-ukraine-20140908074042.htm (Vietnamese)

    English translation wrote:
    List of "volunteer"... mecenaries in Ukrainian armed forces

    During the conflicts at southeastern Ukraina, besides the particiaption of official Ukrainian Armed Forces are the private paramilitaries formed by various Ukrainian politicians.

    There are roughly 10 "volunteer battalions", mostly formed and funded by the Ukrainian oligarchs. Their headquarters are located at the homeland or the power-base of the funding oligarchs. These battalions are similar to the feudal landlord's private troops in the Medieval Era. Since the main Ukrainian forces are losing the will to fight, these "volunteers" become more and more important in the conflict.

    Some oligarchs established 1 battalion each, some richer own 4 or 5 battalions. One notable oligarchs is Igor Kolomoisky, Governor of Dnepropetrovsk. He is thr third richest person in Ukraina. Kolomoisky is a strong supporter of anti-Yakunovych faction. The new Kyiv government has just appointed him to be the Governor of Dnepropetrovsk. This oligarch is famous for the hardline anti-Russia stance, therefore the southeastern provinces disliked him. He also suggested the plan of building 2,000 km barbed fence at Russia-Ukraina borders.

    Kolomoisky is the owner of at least 4 "volunteer battalions", including the Donbass Battalion, Azov Battalion, Dniepr-1 and Dniepr-2 Battalion. These paramilitary forces is notable for their infame cruelty and ruthlessness, and have the initial strengh of 3,000 personnels. In name, these are "volunteer soldiers", but some information showed that these "volunteers" are in fact mecenaries, with the salary reach over several thousand USD per capita. Igor Kolomoisky himself admitted that he spends several dozens millions USD each month for his "volunteer battalions".

    The Azov Battalion's headquarter is located at the former villa of ex-president Viktor Yanukovych in Uzuf village near the Azov sea, Mariupol region in Donetsk province. Its leader is lieutenant-colonel Andriy Bieleski. Recently the Azov Battalion was severely destroyed during a conflict near Mariupol. Only a few dozens personnel managed to retreated into the urban area. Without the ceasefire, the Azov Battalion would have been completely erased.

    The Donbass Battalion was established by Dmitry Yarios, leader of the Pravyy Sektor, a far-right racist group in Ukrainia. The battalion's troops are also member of Pravyy Sektor. Its leader is Semen Sementchenko. Its headquarter is located at Dnipropetrovsk with intial strength about 630 troops. Donbass Battalion was nearly destroyed in the Ilovaisk pocket when its and other four "volunteer" battalions was surrounded by separatist insurgents in 26 August. Fortunately, the encircled troops was allowed to retreat through a "humanity balcon" formed by the separatists on 30 August.

    The Pravyy Sektor is a far-right racist groups who commited many crimes against Ukrainian people. One of the most notable crime is the genocide at Odessa, in which the Pravyy Sektor threw Molotov cocktail into the Union building, killed 46 people and injured hundreds of others. Another crime of Pravyy Sektor occured in the same day when they open fired into the mob at Andreevka village outside Slovyansk killed 10 people and injured 40 others. In that event, the Ukrainian official troops refused to shot at the civillian but Pravyy Sektor did.

    The Dniepr-1 and 2 Battalions are commanded by Yuri Bereza, initial strengh is 500 troops. The two Dniepr Battalions are not less cruel compared to the former two. They participated in the mass murder of civillians in Krasnoarmeisk. They even killed many Ukrainian troops who refused to shot at the civillians.

    Besides Igor Kolomoisky, many politicians and oligarchs have establised private armies for their own. Currently there are about 10-20 "volunteer" mecenaries battalions. These "volunteers" enjoy very high salary and are eager to kill people for money.

    In Kharkiv region there are the Kharkiv-1 and 2 Battalion (aka Sloboda) with 200-300 personnel, commanded by the Yangalenko brothers. These troops are funded by Baluta, an oligarch who were just appointed to be the new Kharkiv Governor.

    The Luhansk Battalion was formed in May 2014 by around 150 Euromaidan members. On 17 June, after received some additional troops, the Luhansk Battalion attacked the city of Luhansk. But the Novorossiya insurgent organized an ambush and nearly destroyed that battalion. The reinforecement troops were also defeated and destroyed. Luhanks Battalion was not dismissed later, but it was practically eliminated.

    Some other Ukrainian "volunteer" are Artemovsk Battalion, Kyiv-1 Battalion, Rukh Opory Battalion of the ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko.

    In the later phase of the conflicts there are several more "volunteer" battalions created by Ukrainian politicians. These military groups haven't participated much in the war.
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    Post  etaepsilonk Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:15 pm

    Mike E wrote:So export models bound for Congo are "upgrades"? Those Ukrianians sure have a good sense of humor!

    Yes, they're upgrades, because T-64 is not in production anymore.
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    Post  Regular Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:50 pm

    Vann7 wrote:The kiev junta is preparing to start a chemical attack on mass scale.. Probably they will be trying dangerous chemical either on a false flag attack .. at the level of MH17 plane.. or to use the chemicals against the Rebels in combat.
    2 buses with dangerous chemicals were saw in Slavyansk recently by the nazy army.. in prepartions for something
    they have planned.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 33 723c9a7b2034ded0ec4925592925aad7_article

    http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/139983-donetsk-ucranianos-trasladan-sustancias-quimicas

    https://translate.google.com

    If i was Putin i will supply all the rebels with basic mask to protect against chemicals and also glasses.
    I think rebels have to counter it by using biological weapons. On Kiev for example Smile
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    Post  medo Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:34 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 33 Nraf-s10

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 33 Nraf-s11

    Are those pictures true or photoshops? If true, that Novorussia is forming their own air force. Maybe those planes are still in Russia where pilots are getting trained. When Novorussia will be recognized, those planes could in Novorussia.
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    Post  cracker Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:05 pm

    so far, no russian weapons seen in the conflict, exept russian volunteers with PKP and VSS (at least 1 photo)

    No AK-74M, only AKS-74 and AK-74 from Ukraine garrisons or captured on troops/dead

    No RPG of latest types, only RPG-18/22/26 and RPG-7, mostly with older grenades (PG-7VS/ VL) - by the way, does ukraine produce RPG-26? or has a lot of them from USSR/bought them from Bazalt in russia before 2014?

    Older / odd rifles such as AKM/AKMS and AKS-74U are common. SVD rifles are comon, not seen a single SVDS.

    ATGM are almost always Konkurs type, quite old.

    Not seen a single RGO grenade (modern impact fuse grenade), rather old RGD-5 and F-1.

    Basically, both sides use almost exclusively ukraine army weapons.

    Granted, it's easier for russia to hide a delivery of old AK-74 and never be disclosed, than sending those embarassing T-72B"something"...

    MANPADS? Igla-S or Strela-2? Which was the most common in downing UKR airforce? Where do they come from?



    And, i'm interested: any report on the use of anti-tank guns in this war? MT-12 are really common, and many were captured, any info about a use, an ambush, their effect on T-64BV? And, any info on other guns? Like D-48, D-44 or BS-3 (all were spotted at least once)

    Despite everything, AT guns remain powerful weapons in a war like that, to create big kill zones from fortified positions, from edges of forest, trench lines, or city suburbs, on checkpoints and to cover major roads.

    Any info on use of ZIS-3 76mm guns? I wouldn't be surprised... As we know, already these types of field gun were used/captured: D-20 152mm, D-30 122mm, Giatsint B 152mm, MSTA-B 152mm
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    Post  Regular Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:17 am

    cracker wrote:
    Older / odd rifles such as AKM/AKMS and AKS-74U are common. SVD rifles are comon, not seen a single SVDS.
    Oh, I've even seen newer SVDS, SVD-K and foreign sniper rifles too..
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 33 007
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    Post  Mike E Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:13 am

    medo wrote:Are those pictures true or photoshops? If true, that Novorussia is forming their own air force. Maybe those planes are still in Russia where pilots are getting trained. When Novorussia will be recognized, those planes could in Novorussia.
    The picture quality sucks, which typically means photoshop... However, I won't form my opinion until more info comes in.
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    Post  cracker Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:18 am

    Regular wrote:
    Oh, I've even seen newer SVDS, SVD-K and foreign sniper rifles too..

    And where is your proof? This is a regular SVD...
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    Post  kvs Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:33 am

    So the Kiev regime and the Washington propaganda chorus claims there are thousands of Russian soldiers fighting and dying in Ukraine. OK, then. Where are the videos of the destroyed Russian columns and encampments? The rebels produce dozens of videos of regime forces wiped out all over Donetsk and Lugansk, but there is not a single freaking photograph or video of the same for these mythical Russian forces. Instead we have quibbling about some alleged T-72B3 and whatnot.

    Part of this ludicrous propaganda campaign is being waged in Russia, where the Washington NGO "Sodiers' Mothers" is repeating the lies verbatim (as it did during and after the second Chechnya war). Thousands and thousands of dead Russian soldiers are supposedly being buried in secret in Russia. From the rebel made videos of Kiev regime losses it is clear that many soldiers are still out in the field. Yet the Russian dead are all magically recovered by Russia. It would be trivial for Kiev regime forces to make videos of their glorious triumphs over Russian invaders. But I see nothing.
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    Post  cracker Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:55 am

    kvs wrote:

    Part of this ludicrous propaganda campaign is being waged in Russia, where the Washington NGO "Sodiers' Mothers" is repeating the lies verbatim (as it did during and after the second Chechnya war).

    Please, tell me more about that... What concrete material in existence that this could be true? (I mean the fact that this mother organisation is in fact a fake). Really, i'm curious, not sarcastic... I don't know anything about it in fact, just that it seems "legit" ... I would be very glad if they are fake, and that the so called thousands deads in chechnya (and now) are in fact non existent...
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    Post  Mike E Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:09 am

    cracker wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    Part of this ludicrous propaganda campaign is being waged in Russia, where the Washington NGO "Sodiers' Mothers" is repeating the lies verbatim (as it did during and after the second Chechnya war).

    Please, tell me more about that... What concrete material in existence that this could be true? (I mean the fact that this mother organisation is in fact a fake). Really, i'm curious, not sarcastic... I don't know anything about it in fact, just that it seems "legit" ... I would be very glad if they are fake, and that the so called thousands deads in chechnya (and now) are in fact non existent...
    Read this:

    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2014/august/30/russian-soldiers-mothers-committees-a-us-covert-op.aspx
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    Post  kvs Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:33 am

    The "Soldiers' Mothers" NGO has not produced proof of its claims. It is hard to hide thousands of coffins and we should be seeing dozens of specific examples of actual Russian soldiers being buried. Clearly this is not the case. I cannot post links due to forum new member rules, but a perusal of their material via a Google search will suffice. This NGO, as all the other ones, acts as a narrative seed for the media. The media cites its claims as if they were established fact and a sort of hysteria ensues. This is exactly the formula applied by Kiev to its numerous absurd claims about Russian invaders. Kiev releases a statement and the western media proceeds to repeat it as established fact.

    The BBC was drawing a rebel territory control map taken straight from Kiev when the refugee convoy drove to Lugansk. The map had Lugansk completely surrounded even though the convoy drove through rebel held territory. A couple of weeks later the rebels were on the outskirts of Mariupol. The whole western media chorus of official press releases from "trusted government sources" is ridiculous. They were rebroadcasting the Kiev delusions about imminent victory and then when the rebels had battlefield success it was all one big Russian invasion.

    There is enough evidence, obviously not from the fully discredited official sources repeated by CNN and friends, that Kiev's army is in an extremely sorry state. Its own soldiers complain bitterly about incompetent command and lack of support at key moments. We saw one cauldron forming after another for the last three months. This is an indication of gross incompetence and what you get when you install regime loyalists in command. The story about Russian forces fighting in eastern Ukraine is utter nonsense and a pathetic Bagdad Bob style attempt to deny reality by the Kiev regime. I am sure that Russia is giving the rebels lots of military support, but it does not include Russian units fighting in Ukraine.
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    Post  Mike E Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:38 am

    kvs wrote:The "Soldiers' Mothers" NGO has not produced proof of its claims.   It is hard to hide thousands of coffins and we should be seeing dozens of specific examples of actual Russian soldiers being buried.    Clearly this is not the case.   I cannot post links due to forum new member rules, but a perusal of their material via a Google search will suffice.   This NGO, as all the other ones, acts as a narrative seed for the media.   The media cites its claims as if they were established fact and a sort of hysteria ensues.   This is exactly the formula applied by Kiev to its numerous absurd claims about Russian invaders.   Kiev releases a statement and the western media proceeds to repeat it as established fact.

    The BBC was drawing a rebel territory control map taken straight from Kiev when the refugee convoy drove to Lugansk.  The map had Lugansk completely surrounded even though the convoy drove through rebel held territory.   A couple of weeks later the rebels were on the outskirts of Mariupol.   The whole western media chorus of official press releases from "trusted government sources" is ridiculous.   They were rebroadcasting the Kiev delusions about imminent victory and then when the rebels had battlefield success it was all one big Russian invasion.  

    There is enough evidence, obviously not from the fully discredited official sources repeated by CNN and friends, that Kiev's army is in an extremely sorry state.   Its own soldiers complain bitterly about incompetent command and lack of support at key moments.    We saw one cauldron forming after another for the last three months.   This is an indication of gross incompetence and what you get when you install regime loyalists in command.    The story about Russian forces fighting in eastern Ukraine is utter nonsense and a pathetic Bagdad Bob style attempt to deny reality by the Kiev regime.    I am sure that Russia is giving the rebels lots of military support, but it does not include Russian units fighting in Ukraine.    
    Might as well be CNN... The fact that they receive funding from the US government is proof of their bias.
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    Post  kvs Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:51 am

    There are 15,000 Russian servicemen in Ukraine, committee of Russian soldiers’ mothers says
    Many Russian servicemen have been dispatched to Ukraine by force, head of the Committee of Russian Soldiers’ Mothers Valentina Melnikova is quoted by Tsenzor.NET as saying, Russia Dozhd TV channel reports.

    According to Melnikova, one Russian soldier complained that his CO wanted his soldiers to go to Ukraine, ordering them to sign the contracts.  

    There are about 15,000 Russian servicemen in Ukraine, Melnikova says, and the number of wounded or killed is unknown.

    The above is from a Ukrainian information website and is an example of the tripe this NGO produces.   Even the Kiev regime was recently claiming there were 5,000 "Russian soldiers" in Ukraine.   The rebels admit that they have over 4,000 volunteers in their ranks from around the world.     

    The battlefield situation debunks such surreal drivel.   The rebels have about 20,000 fighters.   There were over 7 million people in the Donetsk and Lugansk "oblasts" before the war.   Almost one million of them fled to Russia (see the UN figures).   So people are supposed to believe that the rebels have only 5,000 locals and the rest are all Russian soldiers?   The western media has already admitted that most fighters in the Donbas are locals.   So we have a paradox: there must be more rebel+Russian soldiers than Kiev has deployed and by a significant margin.   So why are the rebels basically blocked from retaking Slaviansk and pushing regime forces out of Donetsk and Lugansk?   Obviously they do not have enough men and equipment.  

    I just did a Google search on Soldiers' Mothers and there was link after link of western media repeating their ludicrous claims.   This is not information, it is spam.


    Last edited by kvs on Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar mistake)
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    Post  Mike E Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:05 am

    Did you check out the link I posted? It was from a Western source (albeit a Libertarian source) and it said quite the opposite....
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:34 am

    kvs wrote:The "Soldiers' Mothers" NGO has not produced proof of its claims.   It is hard to hide thousands of coffins and we should be seeing dozens of specific examples of actual Russian soldiers being buried.    Clearly this is not the case.   I cannot post links due to forum new member rules, but a perusal of their material via a Google search will suffice.   This NGO, as all the other ones, acts as a narrative seed for the media.   The media cites its claims as if they were established fact and a sort of hysteria ensues.   This is exactly the formula applied by Kiev to its numerous absurd claims about Russian invaders.   Kiev releases a statement and the western media proceeds to repeat it as established fact.

    The BBC was drawing a rebel territory control map taken straight from Kiev when the refugee convoy drove to Lugansk.  The map had Lugansk completely surrounded even though the convoy drove through rebel held territory.   A couple of weeks later the rebels were on the outskirts of Mariupol.   The whole western media chorus of official press releases from "trusted government sources" is ridiculous.   They were rebroadcasting the Kiev delusions about imminent victory and then when the rebels had battlefield success it was all one big Russian invasion.  

    There is enough evidence, obviously not from the fully discredited official sources repeated by CNN and friends, that Kiev's army is in an extremely sorry state.   Its own soldiers complain bitterly about incompetent command and lack of support at key moments.    We saw one cauldron forming after another for the last three months.   This is an indication of gross incompetence and what you get when you install regime loyalists in command.    The story about Russian forces fighting in eastern Ukraine is utter nonsense and a pathetic Bagdad Bob style attempt to deny reality by the Kiev regime.    I am sure that Russia is giving the rebels lots of military support, but it does not include Russian units fighting in Ukraine.    

    This is the same committee that has been saying that there were around 100,000 Russian soldiers deaths in Chechnya in order to go against the war. Not a shroud of evidence then, none now. They can give first names, like Reuters did, but not a single picture or last name given.

    This whole thing stinks.
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    Post  kvs Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:45 am

    Mike E wrote:Did you check out the link I posted? It was from a Western source (albeit a Libertarian source) and it said quite the opposite....

    It was the only one in the first few pages of Google results that I scanned. Every major news outlet was peddling the same story from this NGO.

    We had the whole cold war with proxy guerrilla wars between the USA and the USSR. I do not recall any example of the sort being claimed in eastern Ukraine. Sure, there are advisers and equipment. But there is no point sending in a few thousand soldiers to pretend to be rebels. Also, we have the changing of this story from the initial claims of GRU and FSB to regular soldiers. Not a single shred of evidence has been provided that there are these Russian forces operating in Ukraine. This is why NATO has not intervened openly in support of the Kiev regime.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:11 am

    Russia needs to outright ban these groups, or force them to show where their funding comes from by media. Publicly humiliate them.
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    Post  higurashihougi Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:27 am

    sepheronx wrote:Russia needs to outright ban these groups, or force them to show where their funding comes from by media.  Publicly humiliate them.

    Even if you provides the truth about them, there are still a lot of brainwashed idiots who still believe in whatever Washington DC said.

    And the propaganda machine have no sense of shame. As long as the West continues to send money to them, they will continue to produce false news. For them, reputation and shame is nothing compared to the favour of Washington DC.

    Mike E wrote:So export models bound for Congo are "upgrades"? Those Ukrianians sure have a good sense of humor!

    For Ukrainian army, it is a valuable "upgrade".

    The situation of Kyiv military have took a terrible turn to the point of many export contracts have to be cancelled and the products have to be thrown into Donbass... and then fell under the Novorossiya insurgents, after Kyiv crews surrendered or ran away, left the vehicles behind.

    We have already known that the Ukrainian army suffers from lack of funds due to the intense corrpution and political turmoil. When Moskva has already tagged along with the Armata projects, Kyiv still sticks with the upgrade version of T-55/62 and T-64/80.

    The ace of Ukrainian armoured force, BM Oplot, has the number of around 10 pieces. That means the majority of Ukrainian tanks are the modernized T-xx which equal to T-80U at most.

    And you know what, Poroshenko and Yuschenko have recently claimed that they will took Krym back to Ukraina. But by what ? By faith in the Force ? Or by selling their soul to the West ?
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    Post  arpakola Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:11 am

    Interviewing  militiaman ex-soldiers of the Ukrainian army



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    Post  kvs Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:55 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Russia needs to outright ban these groups, or force them to show where their funding comes from by media.  Publicly humiliate them.

    They have already been categorized officially as foreign agents. Russia has a law similar to the US Foreign Agent Registration Act. Of course, the western media and pundits are howling with outrage that Russia is exposing these NGOs for what they are. He who pays the piper calls the tune and Soldiers' Mothers is playing the tune hard.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:14 pm

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Russia needs to outright ban these groups, or force them to show where their funding comes from by media.  Publicly humiliate them.

    They have already been categorized officially as foreign agents.   Russia has a law similar to the US Foreign Agent Registration Act.  Of course, the western media and pundits are howling with outrage that Russia is exposing these NGOs for what they are.    He who pays the piper calls the tune and Soldiers' Mothers is playing the tune hard.  

    By the sounds of Putin's ratings, I figure that majority of the population don't believe what crap is coming from their mouths.
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    Post  Mike E Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:47 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Russia needs to outright ban these groups, or force them to show where their funding comes from by media.  Publicly humiliate them.

    They have already been categorized officially as foreign agents.   Russia has a law similar to the US Foreign Agent Registration Act.  Of course, the western media and pundits are howling with outrage that Russia is exposing these NGOs for what they are.    He who pays the piper calls the tune and Soldiers' Mothers is playing the tune hard.  

    By the sounds of Putin's ratings, I figure that majority of the population don't believe what crap is coming from their mouths.
    Not a bad thing either... NGOs are almost always corrupt in one way or another, "Mothers" included!

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