Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

Isos wrote:
When you know they produced fighters, war ships ... and now they have issues with a rocket, that's sad. If your engineers have issues with physic laws then you can blame just your eduction programs ...

miketheterrible wrote:Wouldn't it be in Serbia's best interest then to do lots of JV with lets say Russia, Belarus and others in order to get a cut out of the defense spending pie and as well gain access to the needed tech for their own use?

miketheterrible wrote:While its understandable that they lost a lot of its manufacturing capabilities since the Yugoslavia dissolving, it would have been a pretty good opportune time for Serbia to look at partners in middle east and Asia whom would have been happy to obtain some co development in producing Serbian equipment. Even that alone would have saved billions and both parties could get what they need, while what little is left of Serbian mil manufacturing could actually thrive.

Was it Iraq who was purchasing the M-21 Zastava? What was the overall thought on these rifles?

Militarov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:While its understandable that they lost a lot of its manufacturing capabilities since the Yugoslavia dissolving, it would have been a pretty good opportune time for Serbia to look at partners in middle east and Asia whom would have been happy to obtain some co development in producing Serbian equipment. Even that alone would have saved billions and both parties could get what they need, while what little is left of Serbian mil manufacturing could actually thrive.

Was it Iraq who was purchasing the M-21 Zastava? What was the overall thought on these rifles?

Well regarding aviation industry, we have just remains of the remains. So on that field we would need a miracle, not partners

It was Iraq, yes, certain amounts. It was also obtained by Armenia (Special forces), Azerbaijan (special forces), Macedonia (special forces), Bosnia and Herzegovina (special police forces), Cameroon (special police forces), some token amounts were also exported to Peru, Jordan, Angola...

General response from our army was...not that great. Its good system, however rifle in general had spotty and sloppy production quality and ergonomic flaws compared to products its supposed to compete with. That is the reason why army stopped procuring them and now are waiting for "new rifle", this modular thingie they are trying to push now into service with special brigade.

miketheterrible wrote:

Militarov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:While its understandable that they lost a lot of its manufacturing capabilities since the Yugoslavia dissolving, it would have been a pretty good opportune time for Serbia to look at partners in middle east and Asia whom would have been happy to obtain some co development in producing Serbian equipment. Even that alone would have saved billions and both parties could get what they need, while what little is left of Serbian mil manufacturing could actually thrive.

Was it Iraq who was purchasing the M-21 Zastava? What was the overall thought on these rifles?

Well regarding aviation industry, we have just remains of the remains. So on that field we would need a miracle, not partners

It was Iraq, yes, certain amounts. It was also obtained by Armenia (Special forces), Azerbaijan (special forces), Macedonia (special forces), Bosnia and Herzegovina (special police forces), Cameroon (special police forces), some token amounts were also exported to Peru, Jordan, Angola...

General response from our army was...not that great. Its good system, however rifle in general had spotty and sloppy production quality and ergonomic flaws compared to products its supposed to compete with. That is the reason why army stopped procuring them and now are waiting for "new rifle", this modular thingie they are trying to push now into service with special brigade.

What particular spotty quality was it? And what kind of issues did it create?  The rest seem kinda aesthetic IMO but hey, if they are going to spend the money, understandable that they better get the best.  Was a cool looking rifle.  I am actually liking the look of this new one.  So hope to hear about the results on this.

miketheterrible wrote:So the good old M-70 is still preferred by most?

The ministry made it clear to Zastava over these issues, yes?  If so, they "promised" to at least fix these issues in next rifle, yes?

I have nothing but high respect for Serbia's defense capabilities even for the current state it is in and the size of the nation.  I just hope to see one day a growing and thriving defense industry there.  Personally, if their products were exported even here for civil consumption I know I would invest in one.

Serbia unveils new Kosava-1 precision-guided missile
http://defence-blog.com/army/serbia-unveils-new-kosava-1-precision-guided-missile.html

Cyberspec wrote:We shall see...when were you working there?

Militarov wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:We shall see...when were you working there?

I was contractor actually. 2012-2015. on few occasions.

miketheterrible wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:We shall see...when were you working there?

I was contractor actually. 2012-2015. on few occasions.

if Serbia decided to put money towards development, would it take long to produce working examples of these new systems showcased? What about steady production?

Isos wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Avion

@Militarov Do you think this plane would have been good enough compare to other fighters of its class ? Did they sold its plans to China for J-10 ?

d_taddei2 wrote:I still think Serbia and Belarus should do a joint arms industry. Serbia could focus on certain areas, Belarus like wise and anything missing they could do joint venture even bringing in Russia and China on ad hoc basis for expertise and parts. It would likely reduce Serbia's parts pool down to max 3 countries (the ones mentioned ) cost sharing on design, research and production would help both countries and could even help China and Russia with research costs for similar equipment that they are designing. And Could for closer ties. Some of the serbian and Belarusian equipment isn't that bad just lack of funds and export market. Belarus faces same problems. India could also be potential partner on ad hoc basis.

https://www.facebook.com/tankchaser/photos/a.255913211608579.1073742207.179946025871965/292598177940082/?type=3&theater wrote:Serbia Develops State-of-the-Art, Armata-Style Battle Tank
A concept of the Russian Armata-like “Serbian tank of the future”, the М-20UP-1, has reportedly been presented at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade.
Serbia has presented a concept of the М-20UP-1, the country’s “tank of the future”, at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade. Designers said that they were inspired by the Russian-made Armata tank when developing the М-20UP-1, according to the Serbian news website Vecernje Novosti Online.The project cost of the production of one M-20UP-1 stands at five million euros.
Goran Stojanovic, head of the working group to develop the tank, said that the М-20UP-1 will not compete with the Armata tank.
“Our tank will be closer to the [Russian-made] T-90 tank in terms of combat capabilities. We are short of money, and our economic potential is not developed enough to let us compete with the Russians. But by using a design [resembling] those of advanced tanks across the world, we have developed the weapon of the future: cheap, modern and efficient,” Stojanovic said.
As in the T-14 Armata battle tank, the М-20UP-1’s crew of three is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule, separated from the ammunition container.
The Serbian tank also features an unmanned, digitally controlled turret, which is remotely controlled by a crew member located in the aforementioned capsule.
The tank’s 125mm smooth-bore gun is also digitally operated from the capsule via high-resolution cameras. The turret carries a total of 48 rounds of ammunition, including ready-to-use ones. The gun can also fire laser-guided missiles.The М-20UP-1 is equipped with electric transmission, which engineers said will help significantly reduce the power loss and will add to the tank’s stealth characteristics.
It reportedly took eight months to finalize the М-20UP-1, which was developed both by young and veteran Serbian engineers, who were engaged in the creation of the M-84 battle tank.
The М-20UP-1 will form a base platform for other Serbian armored vehicles, as is the case with the Russian-made Armata platform.
Earlier this year, similar plans were announced by India, which seeks to use the platform of its planned battle tank for as many as 11 different tracked vehicles

Isos wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/tankchaser/photos/a.255913211608579.1073742207.179946025871965/292598177940082/?type=3&theater wrote:Serbia Develops State-of-the-Art, Armata-Style Battle Tank
A concept of the Russian Armata-like “Serbian tank of the future”, the М-20UP-1, has reportedly been presented at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade.
Serbia has presented a concept of the М-20UP-1, the country’s “tank of the future”, at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade. Designers said that they were inspired by the Russian-made Armata tank when developing the М-20UP-1, according to the Serbian news website Vecernje Novosti Online.The project cost of the production of one M-20UP-1 stands at five million euros.
Goran Stojanovic, head of the working group to develop the tank, said that the М-20UP-1 will not compete with the Armata tank.
“Our tank will be closer to the [Russian-made] T-90 tank in terms of combat capabilities. We are short of money, and our economic potential is not developed enough to let us compete with the Russians. But by using a design [resembling] those of advanced tanks across the world, we have developed the weapon of the future: cheap, modern and efficient,” Stojanovic said.
As in the T-14 Armata battle tank, the М-20UP-1’s crew of three is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule, separated from the ammunition container.
The Serbian tank also features an unmanned, digitally controlled turret, which is remotely controlled by a crew member located in the aforementioned capsule.
The tank’s 125mm smooth-bore gun is also digitally operated from the capsule via high-resolution cameras. The turret carries a total of 48 rounds of ammunition, including ready-to-use ones. The gun can also fire laser-guided missiles.The М-20UP-1 is equipped with electric transmission, which engineers said will help significantly reduce the power loss and will add to the tank’s stealth characteristics.
It reportedly took eight months to finalize the М-20UP-1, which was developed both by young and veteran Serbian engineers, who were engaged in the creation of the M-84 battle tank.
The М-20UP-1 will form a base platform for other Serbian armored vehicles, as is the case with the Russian-made Armata platform.
Earlier this year, similar plans were announced by India, which seeks to use the platform of its planned battle tank for as many as 11 different tracked vehicles

Isos wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/tankchaser/photos/a.255913211608579.1073742207.179946025871965/292598177940082/?type=3&theater wrote:Serbia Develops State-of-the-Art, Armata-Style Battle Tank
A concept of the Russian Armata-like “Serbian tank of the future”, the М-20UP-1, has reportedly been presented at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade.
Serbia has presented a concept of the М-20UP-1, the country’s “tank of the future”, at the Partner 2015 military exhibition in Belgrade. Designers said that they were inspired by the Russian-made Armata tank when developing the М-20UP-1, according to the Serbian news website Vecernje Novosti Online.The project cost of the production of one M-20UP-1 stands at five million euros.
Goran Stojanovic, head of the working group to develop the tank, said that the М-20UP-1 will not compete with the Armata tank.
“Our tank will be closer to the [Russian-made] T-90 tank in terms of combat capabilities. We are short of money, and our economic potential is not developed enough to let us compete with the Russians. But by using a design [resembling] those of advanced tanks across the world, we have developed the weapon of the future: cheap, modern and efficient,” Stojanovic said.
As in the T-14 Armata battle tank, the М-20UP-1’s crew of three is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule, separated from the ammunition container.
The Serbian tank also features an unmanned, digitally controlled turret, which is remotely controlled by a crew member located in the aforementioned capsule.
The tank’s 125mm smooth-bore gun is also digitally operated from the capsule via high-resolution cameras. The turret carries a total of 48 rounds of ammunition, including ready-to-use ones. The gun can also fire laser-guided missiles.The М-20UP-1 is equipped with electric transmission, which engineers said will help significantly reduce the power loss and will add to the tank’s stealth characteristics.
It reportedly took eight months to finalize the М-20UP-1, which was developed both by young and veteran Serbian engineers, who were engaged in the creation of the M-84 battle tank.
The М-20UP-1 will form a base platform for other Serbian armored vehicles, as is the case with the Russian-made Armata platform.
Earlier this year, similar plans were announced by India, which seeks to use the platform of its planned battle tank for as many as 11 different tracked vehicles