Flyingdutchman wrote:Mariupol was shelled and who else but the rebels would shell Mariupol?
There were Ukrainian troops right there so why would Ukraine shell the city?
Come on it had to be the rebels.
Don't get me wrong i am absolutely not supporting Ukraine in this war cause they do a lot war crimes aswell, i actually support no one.
But the rebels commit war crimes aswell and you all know that.
Probably the rebels, unless the Ukrs f'ed up.
Listen, let me be straight with you for a second. I don't give a flying
fuk about the shelling and war crimes.
It sounds like an awful thing to say - and it is - but I care little about this issue. I understand that it's war, I understand the Ukrainians have inaccurate artillery, the rebels have inaccurate artillery, they both have to fight in urban areas, defend themselves in the midst of the rest of the population, etc... civilian casualties are inevitable (I'm excusing the accusations of Ukr forces deliberately shelling cities to empty them for the moment).
My beef is different. Namely - it's how
dare these scum come and fight against Russians, on Russian land, in the first place?
Did we shell them in 1991? Did we prevent their independence? Sent tanks to crush people on the streets? Prevent them from protesting against the USSR?
Did we come to them, with bloody foam at the mouth, yelling with nationalist dribble about how they're all traitors, NATO agents, and deserve to be killed, burnt alive for wanting their own country seperate from the USSR?
Who the
fk gave them a right to do it against us 23 years later? We showed these scum compassion and they interpreted it as weakness. We gave them all this land, Russian land; millions of sq. km of it - and they interpreted all this as meaning that it's "Ukrainian land", that's to say Ukrainian 'patriots', Ukrainian culture and language come first there... Russian wasn't even recognized as a regional language in the
BLOODY Donbass and Crimea, until about 2010 or so.
I am using a little artistic license here. After all Ukrainians formed a proportion of the USSR's military and political elite that was only a close second after Russians, and of course the very Donbassians that want to seperate - are Ukrainians by and large themselves.
But I think you get the idea.
This whole thing wasn't even about seperatism at the beggining anyway, all this humiliation nonewithstanding. It was about the Ukrainians protesting, overthrowing an elected government who had millions of votes in the eastern regions of country, silencing and threatening all the elected eastern Ukrainian representitives in parliament, causing all this shit - and then having the gall to come and tell the Donbassians - that sorry, only Ukrainians have the right to overthrow their elected government; and you Russians don't even have the right to overthrow the unelected one that we're about to impose on you.
Maybe you'd enjoy it if Brussels, the administrative centre of your own supranational organization, the EU, arbitrarily decides to make some Dutch districts - part of Germany. Flash forward a couple decades, and your own language is being pressed out, in desperation you try to go through the democratic process - you and your fellow Dutchmen pile all your votes into a minority Dutchophone party that promises to restore language and cultural rights to Dutch-speakers. The party manages to build a coalition with a couple of moderate mainstream German parties; giving them just enough of a majority together, however this provokes outrage among other German parties, about how anyone could politically ally with the Dutch. Klitschko comes to Berlin and gets into a fisticuffs with several German MPs over the Dutch-language issue; "NO!! They must be assimiliated!!!". Eventually, Maidan comes to Berlin, topples the government, beats up all your party's MPs that were democratically elected, threatens them, forces their resignation; then the nationalist mobs start rampaging, assaulting anything to do with the Netherlands; symbols, language-use, statues of Dutch statesmen, buildings built by Dutch architects, etc.. some of these gangs arrive by train to YOUR neighbourhood, continue their vandalism, toppling some local statues - and get into fights with locals who try to defend their heritage.
In the meantime, the new nationalist government asserts itself, and starts arresting protestors in the Dutch districts of Germany, who are protesting about the unconsitutional coup that took place and toppled the government they elected. New pro-government governors and officials are appointed for you, and gradually the situation heats up - the protestors start to demand more autonomy and written guarantees of their language rights, they also plead to the Netherlands for assistance - while the putcshist government in Berlin and their local collaborators, start identifying various protestors and activists as 'traitors' and 'seperatists'. A new law comes out, which punishes seperatism by upto 15 years in prison.
I would be quite interested in hearing about just what YOU would do in such a situation.